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Old 07-26-2021, 07:54 PM   #1
Norwood Auto Italia
 
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Front tire wear -Isata 5 28SS?

Anyone noticing/noticed uneven wear to the front tires of this model. At 9000 miles the outer sipes of the front wheels are almost worn away. Both sides. The workshop/maintenance manual advises there are no permitted camber adjustments as part of an "alignment".

Seems that only work around is frequent tire flips but nobody has commented on this need. One differentiating factor is that I do have the air suspension option so the wear could be a function of excess ride height driving positive camber but again I do not believe this is adjustable either.

Thoughts comments welcome.
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Old 07-26-2021, 08:44 PM   #2
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Air suspension will not cause the tire wear you described.

Get a alignment and rotate the tires. Can rotate with the back outer tires or inner rear tires if dismount and remount the tires ( this is what I did)

I run 100psi in the front tires. Im on 30,000 miles on the continentals and they still look good.
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Old 07-26-2021, 10:34 PM   #3
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Incorrect toe can cause this too

Get an alignment for sure
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:24 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by FOURWHL View Post
Incorrect toe can cause this too

Get an alignment for sure
There is no camber adjustment for this suspension so an alignment is not possible except for toe and caster. Read the manual you got with your coach, its quite specific.

My guess is that the ride height is too high causing the the front wheels to run on their inner section. The ride height is adjustable but requires juggling air pressures in the suspension. I have not found the compressor although I have heard it once or twice.
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by vlamgat View Post
There is no camber adjustment for this suspension so an alignment is not possible except for toe and caster. Read the manual you got with your coach, its quite specific.



My guess is that the ride height is too high causing the the front wheels to run on their inner section. The ride height is adjustable but requires juggling air pressures in the suspension. I have not found the compressor although I have heard it once or twice.


I say this respectfully. When several experienced users say get an alignment take the advice. If you have the rear system get a 4 wheel alignment. I did this after the install.

If you think the front air bags are set to high then measure the height. You measure it from the top of the bottom mount to the top of the air bag. Should be 8.

Ride height is not set by adjusting anything on the air compressor.

If your system is manual fill then easy to adjust bag height. If you have manual height set with compressor ( you will have a air compressor, dyer, tank mount underneath between the frame rails) then it is more complex to adjust the manual levelers. ( manual levers let air out or in as your drive based on suspension travel). Im not going to try to explain it how to adjust them. Call Kelderman.

I mentioned this in the prior post. I have run the front system for several years with no abnormal tire wear. I run 5psi higher than psi on the door sticker.
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:50 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlamgat View Post
There is no camber adjustment for this suspension so an alignment is not possible except for toe and caster. Read the manual you got with your coach, its quite specific.

My guess is that the ride height is too high causing the the front wheels to run on their inner section. The ride height is adjustable but requires juggling air pressures in the suspension. I have not found the compressor although I have heard it once or twice.
Did you even read my post? It wasn't that long...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FOURWHL View Post
Incorrect toe can cause this too

Get an alignment for sure
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Old 07-27-2021, 09:55 AM   #7
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So when you and others got an alignment, what exactly was aligned. I suggest you got charged for something that did not happen because the maintenance manual is specific that there is no camber adjustment. If the toe or caster were out of alignment the wear would be spread and not just the outer band of sites which is about an inch wide.

I called Kelderman before posting to get their Installation instructions. But there is nothing specific about the installation of either a compressor or the use of manual adjustments.

Going to wing it with a tire flip and an alignment eval to see how bad the positive camber really is. Also going to run the pressure 5 over calibration to minimize the camber drag and hence wear though I think this is counter productive.

As of now all 6 tires are showing the same pressures after an hour of running. Obviously this goes up with ambient temperature and sustained speed but at least indicates that they are loaded and inflated correctly.
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Old 07-27-2021, 06:48 PM   #8
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Excessive toe-in causes excessive wear to the outside of the tire. Excessive to-out causes excessive wear to the inside of the tire.


Understanding Toe Setting | Basic Suspension Tuning
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Old 07-27-2021, 08:38 PM   #9
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Thanks for posting that reference. I had a similar conversation with my race shop this afternoon. I never appreciated the wear implications for the toe adjustments because I run over 3 degrees of negative camber on the track and almost no amount of toe in is going to be recognized before the tire is junk.
So an alignment it is.
Thanks everyone.
I hope this is the answer because there is no way to adjust the front ride height with my Kelderman installation. The Schrader valves are inside the fender above the inner liners. So the wheels have to come off on both sides and replaced at least twice before they come off to replace the liners having ensured that the height is correct.
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Old 07-28-2021, 07:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by FOURWHL View Post
Did you even read my post? It wasn't that long...
You are absolutely right as I have discovered for myself after playing with the Hunter alignment table in our shop. Too small for the coach but on a regular car easy to see. Interesting is how much the toe loads the outer rim/tire as the steering angle increases. With the cross wind issues these coaches deal with, one runs many miles with steering angle inputs which increases the wear exponentially more than would be a factor in vehicles less affected.

Thanks
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:29 PM   #11
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Thanks for posting that reference. I had a similar conversation with my race shop this afternoon.
You're welcome. What little I know on the subject I've learned while setting up my MX-5 Miata for the race track. One of the lessons was that too much toe out is much worse than too much negative camber.
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Old 07-28-2021, 02:46 PM   #12
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I just had my E 450 aligned. They had to put adjustable bushing in the front end to complete the alignment. Not sure if yours is the same. Drives much better now.
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Old 07-28-2021, 04:09 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by 2whlzstan View Post
You're welcome. What little I know on the subject I've learned while setting up my MX-5 Miata for the race track. One of the lessons was that too much toe out is much worse than too much negative camber.
Not to hijack the thread...raced a Honda Prelude in an early Lemons Enduro with toe out to compensate for FWD understeer. Awful, is the only word for it! But here I think we are talking about a requirement for about 1/3 degree of toe in and any more is going to accelerate wear. Toe OUT is a non starter of any amount.
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Old 07-31-2021, 07:26 AM   #14
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Toe. The mystery 🤔

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2whlzstan View Post
You're welcome. What little I know on the subject I've learned while setting up my MX-5 Miata for the race track. One of the lessons was that too much toe out is much worse than too much negative camber.
Coming to VIR in Aug.?? See you there. 👍👍
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