Help, another Inverter/Charger Problem

[rskeans]

Gees Hook. That's terrible. If you find an RV repair shop that can sort through that let me know. I'd like to drop off mine there. I think you're in the St. George area. That's spitting distance from Havasu.

[joet19711]

wow hook, in my case I changed the bird and the solenoid. Fixed my problem.

Sorry I led you astray., but they were the cheapest things to change.

F31 fault, did you disconnect the output cable at the zantex and

read output voltage.?

Also there is a two year warranty on the Zantrex. Maybe customer service

could help you and maybe even send you a new unit (if under warranty)

they are about $1,500 to buy on Amazon and several other places.

[bclemens]

can I assume that you have verified all inverter settings to this sheet?

[hook47]

Thanks, but I have just about worn out my original copy. I have made sure every possible setting I could find to have the inverter enabled along with the charger is set properly. Still have problem. I can reset inverter with the soft touch buttons on the unit and it will reset then it resets the same fault.
Can't figure out what could possibly be the "excessive AC load" that I need to reduce, per the fault description in the OM. Add to that the generator sounding like it is really pulling a load when as far as I know there isn't one.
Everything had been working fine until as I said in my first post I turned off the 50amp shore power breakers while the engine was running and the hydraulic levelers were retracting.
Thanks for responding, Brian. Especially on this Memorial Day. Didn't expect to have a response today; thought I'd get a jump on the start of the work week and before I forgot.
Yep, St George. I'm going to call RVzz in Washington..kind of a suburb of STG. Let you know.
It is F1 fault, not 31. Don't think I need to disconnect anything at this point. Not that electrically inclined. I know, it is a shock that I am over my head in this issue!

[Bill Davis]

Originally Posted by hook47

Thanks, but I have just about worn out my original copy. I have made sure every possible setting I could find to have the inverter enabled along with the charger is set properly. Still have problem. I can reset inverter with the soft touch buttons on the unit and it will reset then it resets the same fault.
Can't figure out what could possibly be the "excessive AC load" that I need to reduce, per the fault description in the OM. Add to that the generator sounding like it is really pulling a load when as far as I know there isn't one.
Everything had been working fine until as I said in my first post I turned off the 50amp shore power breakers while the engine was running and the hydraulic levelers were retracting.
Thanks for responding, Brian. Especially on this Memorial Day. Didn't expect to have a response today; thought I'd get a jump on the start of the work week and before I forgot.
Yep, St George. I'm going to call RVzz in Washington..kind of a suburb of STG. Let you know.
It is F1 fault, not 31. Don't think I need to disconnect anything at this point. Not that electrically inclined. I know, it is a shock that I am over my head in this issue!

Something must be producing a heavy load on the system to be working the generator that hard. If it were a dead short it would be popping breakers or smoking something. I would look at all the loads that are connected to the inverter and shut them down one by one to reduce the load.

[KRedburn]

wow. sorry you still having issue.

Have you tried:

1. shut off all breakers on your power distribution panel.
2. disconnect shore power by removing plug from source
and open breakers on the generator
3. reset the inverter
4. is fault still showing?
5. start generator does it still exhibit high load?
6. close breakers on generator does it exhibit high load?
7. if all good to here as in no faults and no indication of high load from genny then shut down genny and open the breakers on the genny.


Hopefully things will be good.

If not,
your issue is somewhere in electric bay or cabling to power distribution (inverter, transfer switch, cabling, power distribution panel back plane connections)

if so
on the right side of the power distribution panel turn on ONE breaker at a time. (on mine the right side is the inverter side)
Note if the fault recurs after any breaker is closed you issue is that circuit leave that breaker open and then continue with the rest.

keep going until all breakers are on.

This is difficult when not there

Hang in there it can be fixed!

[hook47]

KRedburn, I have done everything multiple times with the exception of the gen circuit brkr. Same problem. Thanks for suggestions, at least I am not too far off on the trouble shooting thought process.


This morning I talked to a Xantrex tech and he suggested removing all electrical input to the inverter for at least 2 hours (2 days would be better) to reset electronics in the inverter. Then when power is restored you are rebooting the electronic controls. Disconnected both battery banks, and unplugged from AC. A little over 2 hours latter hooked it all back up and same problem.


Rig is now, once again, at an RV repair shop. Well, $200 later and I have a spare BIRD and solenoid. Electrical shop rate is $125. A new inverter is anywhere from $1200 to $1600. Don't even have to go RV'ing to spend money


At least we do have an RV and reasonable health, so
I'll let y'all know what is what as soon as I know what is what..

[hitchn2go]

I have read your post several times to make sure I have absorbed as much as possible all the inputs. I am wondering if the battery charger is bad.

The reason I say this is I noted you said you were originally plugged into 50 amp service, but on the screenshot I noted the batteries were in BULK charging mode. Battery charging cycle goes thru Bulk - Absorption - Float modes. The Bulk phase dumps a lot of current into the batteries and would require hefty source of power to do that (alternator, gen, shore). Since the switch is working but the charger may not be. I am not convinced solar could provide enough power For the Bulk charging phase in the course of a day—and if you are under cover that would be reduced Even more. If you had been plugged into 50 amps for more than a few hours your batteries should have been fully charged and in the Float stage. Float stage is kinda like a trickle charge or low current just to keep things topped off. I should note that during my transition of unplugging and going from shore to alternator, or shore to generator, my battery charger will briefly drop back to Bulk (but only for a minute or so) then get on to Absorption phase and finally settle in to the Float Phase within about 10 min or so.

Aside from this, the solar panels feeds a charge controller that in turn feeds the batteries. I would have to check my setup, but I do not think my Solar charge controller is connected the the battery charger but I note it would Be controlled by the BIRD module. If this is true, then that would be a separate charging path to the batteries—what you are seeing. Also, I think my charger is integrated into the inverter box (if I recall correctly from my last troubleshooting session—I have a Magnum unit).

So, your batteries may be good (since you have achieved 14v and 13v at one point) but if the charger never got to a Float charging phase they Still could be suspect. If your batteries are undercharged, then the inverter could sense that and give you a warning to reduce your load because batteries do not have enough energy stored to Invert to satisfy the loads (even if they are a only low draw). I did note you had an error msg of low AC output voltage too. That would be directly related to low battery charge at the input of the inverter too. Inverters take DC on input from batteries and produce AC on its outputs to service the coach loads.

I know this input is a bit late since you are already in the shop, but I wanted jot down my thoughts in case it comes up again for the post. There is a lot of good data in this post for future troubleshooting. Electrical issues are always challenging.

[hitchn2go]

Couple of other things that I thought I would mention/document.

1. I was troubleshooting my charging system a year or so ago and I seem to recall that the battery charger is on all the time. There is not a switch to isolate it, if I recall correctly. This may be why you flipped all the breakers and gen was still under a load.

2. The AquaHot has a burner and electric switch for the hot water. You probably isolated the electric side of it with circuit breakers, but I would still check to see if the rocker switch is in the off for the electric.

3. When generator is on, did you see current being pulled from gen via the LCD perscision plex display? This may give some insight into where to look.

Just as an aside comment: it is a good habit to always note the phase of the charging cycle when you are settled. Every time I pass by the display I note to see if I am in the Float stage. (But I am compulsive about these things). But, Adopting this habit will give you an early warning something may be starting to fail.

I don’t mean to be “Capt Obvious”, but just trying get all ideas out there...cause it will happen again to one of us and maybe this post will shorten the repair cycle.

[hook47]

To be honest, I haven't checked to see what stage of the 3 stages the charger was in during normal ops. It is in Bulk mode now and has been as far as I can remember since the problem started.
As for the solar charger, it seems to keep the batteries (not sure about chassis) to about 12.4 to 12.5. After a day batteries are still close to that reading. Lots of sun in SW Utah, and the overhead cover is pretty high so it does get some sun.
Have not run engine long enough to see a drop out of bulk charging. Will check when we (hopefully) drive to Moab next week.
Did check both AquaHot switches, both off and green light showed when turned on momentarily.
Did check PP monitor and with out anything running shows AquaHot at 0amps and 2nd A/C at 1amp. IIRC, with gen running and both A/C's running showed the same, but not positive on that. Did not turn off 30amp gen breaker, wish I had to see what that would do.
Thanks again for hanging in there for me; hopefully it will be a simple fix.

[hitchn2go]

I had some squirrelly problems early on and I felt like I was chasing a ghost. Once I focused in getting batteries to full charge, then things seemed to start to operate correctly.

Consider: 1) one of your batteries may be bad and your charger is dumping lots of current to get it from Bulk to Absorption, or 2) charger is defective and not sensing the battery voltage to allow it switch out of Bulk, or 3) could be a defective battery temperature sensor on the battery post (mine looks like thumb drive with a RJ-11 connector or aka phone connector). You could inspect the temp sensor for something obvious like a loose connection at the battery post and at the inverter/charger (other end of the telephone looking wire) and make sure RJ-11 is seated well into these connection points. Not sure if you have the Magnum system but maybe something similar.

My manual says that voltage to switch out of Bulk has to be greater than 12.8v (but does not give +/- tolerance for that value, so I assume it is approx). Less than 12.8v and it stays in Bulk charging. Temperature sensor gives feedback to charger for Adjusting voltage when moving from Absorption to Float phases. IAW Magnum manual.

[Maingler]

I would suggest testing each battery. If you havent replaced them in a few years and If 1 of the batteries has a bad cell the inverter will keep dumping charge and damage the others by overcharging.

[hook47]

It is strange. The battery temp sensor is functioning and reads just about ambient temps with engine running and both batteries showing 14+ volts charging. No inverter, though. Wit AC in the inverter will invert until it faults, maybe 15 seconds or so. Then it will start inverting again after maybe 5 seconds or so then fault again. As the OM says, it will do this 3 times until it turns into a hard fault. Clear the fault and it will do it again.

Don't know if I mentioned in all my "updates" but with AC in, the SCP shows a constant 4amp draw; even with all circuit brkrs disabled. I'll be checking with the repair shop tomorrow, maybe they'll have something then.
Thanks for your continued suggestions..

[hook47]

Batteries all checked good, solar charging disconnected still had fault. Inverter disconnected from coach, still had fault.
Conclusion: Not a Bad BIRD, but a Bad Inverter


Anyone replaced one? They won't install a customer supplied unit and they don't yet have a price. Their usual supplier is out of them and so far he's found a different "approved" supplier for $2400 + install (maybe $125).



As I told the repair shop service writer, compared to a boat, at least a motorhome rarely sinks.

[Grey Wolf 26RR]

Anyone replaced one? They won't install a customer supplied unit and they don't yet have a price. Their usual supplier is out of them and so far he's found a different "approved" supplier for $2400 + install (maybe $125).


A couple options that perhaps they can order from which show in stock and free shipping:

https://www.hodgesmarine.com/xan815-...IaAm4GEALw_wcB


https://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/...120vac_55-2792

[hook47]

I've looked at prices too. Starting to review install videos. Probably contact Xantrex again and see if there is any help they can give, I'm doubtful of that because it is about 6mos out of warranty. I also want to see what having this one repaired will cost and/or if there is a core charge/value to this one not repaired.
I'll be getting it back today and next week will be going to Moab for 3 days. Next trip is middle of July so will have time to come up with a plan.



Don't know if this info helps those with similar problems. Thanks again for everybody's help.

[rskeans]

FWIW, I once (several years ago) had a mobile tech out of Mesquite that went to St. George for parts. Somebody like that might install your supplied inverter. But, it might be too big a job for somebody like that. Just a thought.

[hook47]

that's a possibility that's a possibility also, if I don't do it myself. I've got to bring it back do the repair shop because for some reason I can't turn off the coach batteries anymore. Twist the disconnect and everything still is power!

[FOURWHL]

If the BIRD is still latched the chassis batteries will power the house for a little while. I installed a disconnect on the chassis to be able to fully disconnect.

If it were me I'd be looking very hard at a victron inverter. Nothing particularly wrong with xantrex but the app and integration with other systems of theirs make it a winner imo.

[Maingler]

What size inverter and model number.