Isata 3 rw ccc - Page 2

**bclemens** · 01-30-2020, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shabang

Can someone enlighten me? Just trying to understand. One of the other threads said that the Sprinter 4500 had 1000 lb more GVWR, but curb weight was less by about the same amount. Does that mean it's a wash? You can put more on the chassis, but the chassis must weigh less. So you end up back where you started? Potential OCCC is unchanged. Is that the gist?

No...the GVWR was 1000lbs more, but the Gross Combined Weight Rating was unchanged. So while you can carry 1,000 lbs more, that means you can only tow 1,000 lbs less. At least, that is the way that I understand it.

So instead of 4,000 lbs you can only to 3,000 lbs. AND it is about $3000 MORE for that benefit.

Sandiegodoug · 01-30-2020, 02:40 PM

So can you beef up chassis on a 3500 to increase carrying capacity knowing if you tow , must keep total in mind?

**bclemens** · 01-30-2020, 02:41 PM

No idea...my goal is just to keep making things lighter where I can, without sacrificing quality. Non-cab-over obviously saves weight. Those are crossing up over 800 lbs of CCC fully loaded. (jacks, solar, etc). I've seen some FW's in the 900 range

shabang · 01-30-2020, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

No...the GVWR was 1000lbs more, but the Gross Combined Weight Rating was unchanged. So while you can carry 1,000 lbs more, that means you can only tow 1,000 lbs less. At least, that is the way that I understand it.

So instead of 4,000 lbs you can only to 3,000 lbs. AND it is about $3000 MORE for that benefit.

If it helps others I was doing a little light reading. Attachments are screen shots out of the Sprinter manual (wish I could just embed a picture):

- GVWR is higher, but curb weigh lower
- Axel ratings a bit higher
- Combined ratings unchanged

This would give the customer a choice. They can move things out of the toad and into the coach. That would work for me as I'd rather not tow. I doubt everyone would agree.

Where does reduced curb weight factor in? If at all?

**bclemens** · 01-30-2020, 02:53 PM

OK, well I guess that sums it up right there.

With a max curb weight of 9375...IF I could build a Sprinter with a curb weight of 9375, that would leave me about 1655 on a 3500 Sprinter rated at 11,030 lbs GVWR. If I could do that, why would I need the 4500 in the first place???? I would have 1655lbs of CCC roughly.

I think I mentioned in another thread. The whole point of the 4500 from what I understood was for work/service/delivery trucks, etc. No towing in most cases, but needed much more cargo capacity

BehindBars · 01-31-2020, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

I think I mentioned in another thread. The whole point of the 4500 from what I understood was for work/service/delivery trucks, etc. No towing in most cases, but needed much more cargo capacity

The originator of this thread didn’t mention anything about towing. They said they were overweight with themselves and somewhat basic, minimal camping cargo. So just like the work/service/delivery trucks, they need more cargo capacity.

chroniekon · 01-31-2020, 02:01 AM

Post 1, paragraph 3, Are we safe or is my wife going to have to follow me in our tow?

BehindBars · 01-31-2020, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chroniekon

Post 1, paragraph 3, Are we safe or is my wife going to have to follow me in our tow?

I was wrong. The original post did mention a tow. Post #1 didn’t mention specifically if a towed vehicle was present during the CAT weighing, or whether it was a flat tow that had minimal impact on motorhome weight or one that added tongue weight. The OP might want to clarify that. If there was tongue weight it could explain the motorhome being over GVWR.

The question quoted above is basically the reason for the thread. “Are we safe or . . ? It was never answered.

Barch · 01-31-2020, 10:16 PM

I think you are.

All kidding aside, I am no expert, but I have been driving my fully equipped I3 with my wife on board for 2 years now, and I have frequently towed my Honda CRV. We carry everything we need including water, 33% normally and 100% when we go boon docking. I have never experienced any significant handling issues and I am sure that at times I have been over the magic 11,030 lbs. GVWR. To me the individual axle maximums (see post 1) make more sense giving a potential combined 12,130 lbs. "unofficial GVWR".

BehindBars · 01-31-2020, 10:40 PM

You’re right. The horse is dead. That there has been no direct answer in this thread from the RV builders to the OP’s question essentially IS the answer. MBS class C builders as well as some of the owners will go on ignoring the MBS weight limits because nothing bad seems to come of it. Meanwhile some potential buyers will actually not buy an MBS RV because of CCC concerns.

The only stake I ever had in the game was that I really considered buying an ISATA 3 or a Sunseeker/Forester MBS, and I had hoped the 2019 MBS chassis would make it a viable choice for me, but since improvements in CCC apparently aren’t forthcoming, it’s not going to happen.

**bclemens** · 01-31-2020, 10:57 PM

I'm not sure what you thought the OP was looking for. If you're concerned about safety, no one can answer that...its felt like rhetorical question. Safe from what exactly? You can travel with very little fresh water as others have and be fine, as others have.

I was answering the GVWR question and also explaining exactly how one can get more CCC. I was also explaining the question of "why do we build them like this". We don't...I give you choices, you the buyer make decisions.

I can get you 1,000 lbs of CCC if you want it. We have built them that way before. But let me spec it.

LSLBlues · 02-06-2020, 05:58 AM

Brian - I think two things frustrate people

1. The sales person lack of educating people about tradeoffs. You want the generator - no problem. Additional battery - sure thing. Add on. Add on. Add on. Then the person gets their RV and they are overloaded and not able to use their RV the way they intended.

2. Lack of transparency or visibility as to how the options affect OCCC. Its a great step to list what each option adds to the weight, but unless you know the starting weight, its of limited value.

I've been amazed at how many people are totally ignorant of weights, capacities, limits, proper tire pressure, etc. People get upset when they are new to RVing, buy something with an intended purpose, spend $150K, and then find out they can't use it the way they wanted to due to information they didn't know about or have access to during the purchase process. Very expensive lesson.

mitchhelms · 02-06-2020, 06:55 AM

To clarify, I do flat tow a Sonic which is less than 3,000 lbs. But on the day I weighed the Isata 3, I was not towing but did have my tow hitch on it. That added 35-40 lbs. My main problem is that these units are built so close on the CCC that this should be something that every manufacturer should specify clearly in their literature to give the customer as much information to make an informed decision. The ISATA has so much going for it. I fault the dealership as well on not educating their customer, but I don't think they have the time to stay abreast of each unit as the manufacturers are always making changes. We were looking at ISATA 5 but chose the 3 for the length. If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone for the 5. Or I would have paid the extra $3,000 for the 4500 chassis if available. But this ISATA 3 does drive like a dream, now that I have my cruise control fixed, but that is another story.

BehindBars · 02-06-2020, 11:14 AM

Here are two simple questions. Does Dynamax publish the unloaded vehicle weight for a specific ISATA 3 floor plan model without any options? Where would a customer go to find that UVW?

**bclemens** · 02-06-2020, 01:25 PM

We do not currently, but something I am looking at. The me the CCC you want and I can tell you how to get there.

BehindBars · 02-06-2020, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

We do not currently, but something I am looking at. The me the CCC you want and I can tell you how to get there.

I have no doubt you would know exactly how to build an ISATA 3 to meet a customer's needs. When a person visits a dealer to place an order for a new unit, does the dealer or that customer know to contact you to get the CCC they want?

**bclemens** · 02-06-2020, 01:40 PM

No, but you do. Are you looking at buying and want to know that data? Or simply looking out for all the potential shoppers out there?

Because, as I mentioned, we are in the process of working on brochures for 2021 and that is certainly something I will look at as long as we can get corp approval on the standard in which we do it.

kenandterry · 02-06-2020, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BehindBars

I have no doubt you would know exactly how to build an ISATA 3 to meet a customer's needs. When a person visits a dealer to place an order for a new unit, does the dealer or that customer know to contact you to get the CCC they want?

Simple answer.....NOPE.
There’s not enough Brian to go around. Only a fraction of a Dynamax customers follow here enough to know how valuable he is. Dealerships.......”What’s a bclemens?”

**bclemens** · 02-06-2020, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenandterry

Simple answer.....NOPE.
There’s not enough Brian to go around. Only a fraction of a Dynamax customers follow here enough to know how valuable he is. Dealerships.......”What’s a bclemens?”

But we have a plan....and a group of minions (while maybe not eager), begrudgingly taking up these tasks. Once they witness the benefits first hand...it will become a "want to" and not a "have to". (knows on wood).

We will also learn (as I have) that the dealer "can" be the leak link. (not always) so we MUST do a better job of educating both the dealer (if they are willing to learn) and/or the customer (if they are willing to learn).

We try to give information...then its not enough, so we give more and then that's not enough. Sometimes its just trial and error to figure out what works and sticks.

And then we cross our fingers and HOPE that they are holding our competition to the same standards...

BehindBars · 02-06-2020, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bclemens

No, but you do. Are you looking at buying and want to know that data? Or simply looking out for all the potential shoppers out there?

Because, as I mentioned, we are in the process of working on brochures for 2021 and that is certainly something I will look at as long as we can get corp approval on the standard in which we do it.

I would hope the corporate approval is there to list the MBS UVW in the brochure, because Forester and Sunseeker are already doing it. Whether their standard for arriving at the number is accurate, approved or proven, I don't know, but a UVW is in the brochure, which I guess for now is better than nothing.

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