Levelling with Equalizer and Kelderman (Isata 5)

[AdventureAwaits]

Ok, sorry for the long post (cross-posted on Facebook forum as well)...
This is regarding the particular combination of Isata 5 (ours is 2017 35DB, but others may have same situation), Dynamax-installed Equalizer hydraulic levelling system, and Kelderman front/rear air suspension with their mechanical self-levelling controls. Comments about other combinations such as electronic controlled Kelderman, front only, manual fill, etc, will only add to our confusion, so please refrain. Don't respond with "you need to reset your null", as that's not my issue.
1) According to Equalizer, their system is for LEVELLING, not just stabilizing, and is capable of supporting the full weight of the vehicle. (We try to avoid this, just what they state).
2) According to bclemens and other Dynamax reps, one should NOT have any of the wheels in the air unsupported in the final levelled configuration. This could result in stress on the cab-to-box/overcab bunk joints/seals, and possible stress to suspension components.
3) Some have recommended blocking under any wheels that get airborne. This seems to go against the purpose of #1, but with the warnings of #2, I get it.
4) On the Kelderman suspension (at least with the mechanical self-levelling control system), as soon as you unweight a corner, the associated valve will drop air from that corner (trying to bring it back to level), thus leaving that suspension corner essentially hanging. Even IF not unweighted, any air leak (which we have a small one), will deflate the bag and transfer weight to the Equalizer jacks.
Our dilema; therefore, is that we appear to be screwed regardless of levelling method chosen: If we just let the Equalizer do its thing, we often will have wheels up in the air (regardless of resetting the null, so don't go there). Even if wheels don't go off the ground, they will still be unweighted, emptying the associated corner's airbag, so fully supported by Equalizer jack only. If we go to the trouble of blocking each tire up so it's level to start with, then the Equalizer becomes a (very heavy) stabilizing jack setup, so what's the poing?
Looking from advice from those in (hopefully exactly) the same situation, or bclemens, as to what the solution should be.
TLDR: How do you guys use your Equalizer with 4-corner Kelderman suspension?
-Ken

[Mike946]

We have the 4 corner air ride as well on our 2021 I5 28ss. We added it after purchase and have the earthroamer control system installed. When we arrive we use the app to dump/add air to level the coach. I have found the floor by the cab is a different level than the kitchen countertop, so now I use the countertop as my reference as the auto level was set using the countertop.
Once the manual leveling shows the coach level we start the auto leveler and it basically is a stabilizer as the legs go down and lift the coach up a bit then signal level.
So far we have not had an issue with being so unlevel that we have tires off the ground since installing the Kelderman.
Our system is new and holds air no problem so when we un auto level the coach is still level and we can set our ride to either low or high ride height before we drive away.
Yes I will agree that it should not be called an auto level system as you should be level ish before using it due to the desire to not have tires off the ground.

[Bill Davis]

There seems to be a lot of people complaining about the ability for the equalizer system to auto level without raising the wheels off the ground. Has anyone worked with equalizer to repair this issue? It should only raise any corner enough to level the coach. My HWH system works perfectly in that regard. It never over raises the coach beyond what is need to be level. It would seem like you folks should be working with equalizer to repair this issue.

[AdventureAwaits]

Bill, clarifying the point: Even if the wheel doesn't come off the ground, as soon as it's unweighted (and airbag gets longer than the preset 8" height), with the mechanical controls, the air in that bag will get dumped and the suspension will NOT be supporting anything, only the Equalizer jack.

Mike, the electronic-controlled Kelderman is a separate, different beast, so I unfortunately can't apply your solutions.
-Ken

[Whalenss]

Ken,

I replied to your same post on FB.

As I said, no issues with same set up as you have.

IMHO, there is no reason to be concerned. Just keep front wheels on the ground.

[AdventureAwaits]

Waiting for BC to chime in here...
Though we're out of warranty, I'd like an explanation of how they (Dynamax) expect their I5 with front Kelderman to not be sitting fully on the Equalizer front jacks once the airbags are unweighted, since they say that is "bad". That's the key issue.

[Whalenss]

When the front end is lifted by the leveling jacks the front suspension begins to unweight. This happens the same with the air bag system or with springs. The springs are not providing any meaningful pushing of the front up ( tire down ). But, there is still weight transfer through the front end through the tires to the ground. This stops once tires are lifted off the ground.

The higher you lift the front the more front end weight is transferred to the leveler point on the frame. As soon as tires are lifted off the ground all front weight is transferred to the lever point on the frame. This can cause very, very minor torsional frame movement while wheels are off the ground which can cause minor front cap movement where the cap is attached to the sides. This shows up as very minor separation where the cap meets the sides. It normally goes back once the unit is back on the ground. It may create the need to re-chalk / seal seams.

I saw this on my unit, with the stock springs, before I knew not to let the front wheels hang in the air after leveling.

With over 20,000 miles using the Kelderman front and rear system I haven’t had the issue you are concerned about. I just keep the front tires on the ground when leveling.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by AdventureAwaits

Waiting for BC to chime in here...
Though we're out of warranty, I'd like an explanation of how they (Dynamax) expect their I5 with front Kelderman to not be sitting fully on the Equalizer front jacks once the airbags are unweighted, since they say that is "bad". That's the key issue.

I'm not exactly sure what the issue is.

Try not to take the tires off the ground. If you do, chock them/block them as a safety precaution.

1. you should not suspend the vehicle on the jacks, its just not safe, it can rock and shift.
2. When the wheels are off the ground, you could be hanging portions of the coach as dead weight on a fulcrum (the jacks)

[SParkie]

Had the full Kelderman installed (w/Air Lift kit) on our 2022 28SS X about 7 K miles ago.
Follow this protocol to level:
Prior to parking, enable the RAM's Pitch and Roll display (sanity check).
Drop the rig to minimum height (pre-set low on Air Lift).
Bias the rig using manual buttons enough to force Air Lift into Manual Mode.
This seems to prevent AirLift from conflicting with the Equalizer (after all, the RAM is in ACC mode to equalize and that keeps Air Lift on as well).

Then equalize from the Equalizer panel or the Vega Touch Mira app.

Heads up: Do Not forget to select "Preset ride" before driving off!

Most of the time that seems to work (say 80%). The other times typically require some manual increase in the height of the vehicle front. Fortunately, no longer having any wheels off the ground experiences now that our rig is starting to equalize from a minimum height position. Just need to add the Heads up to your departure check list

What has me puzzled is the way Equalizer seems to lift one side smoothly, but while lifting another, the previous side suddenly drops down. My guess was air in the hydraulics, but the RV Service center can't re-create the problem? Then again, they are probably doing this on a level cement floor.

Cheers,
SParkie