Lithium Battery Isolation Manager

[rib2390]

I just finished this "conversion" today, using the same exact combination BIM and relay as MLMAY12. I have a 2017 Ford Transit 350HD based Sunseeker., that I bought as a double-year-end model. There were a number of these built with one ReLIon 100A LITHIUM house battery, and the standard Ford double AGM lead acid under the driver's seat. I have the 250A alternator. About a year ago, I started researching the FR factory PD4060 converter and PCI 00-10033-701 BCC to see if they were working correctly, as I wasn't getting bi-directional charging. To make what could be a short story much longer and more interesting, this:

I talked with any number of tech experts at Progressive Dynamics, Precision Circuits Inc, and Forest River. What I learned was that the PD-4060 was the correct charger for the lithium, putting out about 14.6VDC. But there was some doubt as to whether the voltage sensing levels in the PCI BCC that was installed in my RV were correct for the "hybrid" battery system RVs, i.e. different technologies, LI vs PB acid. It was recommended to me (by the guy who says he designed it) to put in the LI BIM 225 in place of my factory BCC components (the PCI BIM little black box, and the Trombetta relay / contactor). There was nothing wrong with either of these components, but since they work hand in hand, and were replaced by a single unit, they had to go. The problem is that the BIM as supplied, probably would have worked well if house and chassis batteries were both lead acid. But because of the higher voltages associated with LITHIUM, the BIM needed to be changed out to accommodate the two different battery types. All of this is all about sensing the voltages of the two different batteries, and using a different duty cycle while charging (... what I THINK it is).

I was able to source my PCI LI BIM 225 thru a guy who knows a guy, because I wanted to take advantage of having the spendy but [now] sought-after LI house battery. Anyone thinking about converting to LiFePO4 house batteries should read and digest what MLMAY12 has said above. You need the higher volt DC converter / charger, and the correct BIM if you want to do bi-directional charging. Overall, this was a straight-forward conversion, but you need to be a good technician to do the work. Also, what set me down this path in the first place, not getting ANY bi-di charging, was the [ill-placed] 60A manual reset breaker under the driver's seat.... was tripped from the factory. Also,Ford could have done a better job on the plastic battery tray cover. Nearly impossible to get at this breaker to reset it.

All in all, looking forward to having bi-di charging. It's only been installed about 4 hrs, so not much to report at this time. Oh, and it is the RED wire that needs the eye terminal connector.

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by rib2390

I just finished this "conversion" today, using the same exact combination BIM and relay as MLMAY12. I have a 2017 Ford Transit 350HD based Sunseeker., that I bought as a double-year-end model. There were a number of these built with one ReLIon 100A LITHIUM house battery, and the standard Ford double AGM lead acid under the driver's seat. I have the 250A alternator. About a year ago, I started researching the FR factory PD4060 converter and PCI 00-10033-701 BCC to see if they were working correctly, as I wasn't getting bi-directional charging. To make what could be a short story much longer and more interesting, this:

I talked with any number of tech experts at Progressive Dynamics, Precision Circuits Inc, and Forest River. What I learned was that the PD-4060 was the correct charger for the lithium, putting out about 14.6VDC. But there was some doubt as to whether the voltage sensing levels in the PCI BCC that was installed in my RV were correct for the "hybrid" battery system RVs, i.e. different technologies, LI vs PB acid. It was recommended to me (by the guy who says he designed it) to put in the LI BIM 225 in place of my factory BCC components (the PCI BIM little black box, and the Trombetta relay / contactor). There was nothing wrong with either of these components, but since they work hand in hand, and were replaced by a single unit, they had to go. The problem is that the BIM as supplied, probably would have worked well if house and chassis batteries were both lead acid. But because of the higher voltages associated with LITHIUM, the BIM needed to be changed out to accommodate the two different battery types. All of this is all about sensing the voltages of the two different batteries, and using a different duty cycle while charging (... what I THINK it is).

I was able to source my PCI LI BIM 225 thru a guy who knows a guy, because I wanted to take advantage of having the spendy but [now] sought-after LI house battery. Anyone thinking about converting to LiFePO4 house batteries should read and digest what MLMAY12 has said above. You need the higher volt DC converter / charger, and the correct BIM if you want to do bi-directional charging. Overall, this was a straight-forward conversion, but you need to be a good technician to do the work. Also, what set me down this path in the first place, not getting ANY bi-di charging, was the [ill-placed] 60A manual reset breaker under the driver's seat.... was tripped from the factory. Also,Ford could have done a better job on the plastic battery tray cover. Nearly impossible to get at this breaker to reset it.

All in all, looking forward to having bi-di charging. It's only been installed about 4 hrs, so not much to report at this time. Oh, and it is the RED wire that needs the eye terminal connector.

Very clean install, I know you will love it. Just got back from a week in Utah and it performed flawlessly. I watched my 32" TV on Dish for about 4 hours in the evening and still had over 70% SOC in the mornings to make my coffee.

Side note I installed a 2K Magnum Dimensions Inverter to replace the 1K that comes with the Isata. I can run anything but the AC on it including the Microwave with a short 2 foot extension cord so it can be plugged into one of the outlets above the sink as they are powered by the Inverter and the Microwave isn't. Flexibility

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

Very clean install, I know you will love it. Just got back from a week in Utah and it performed flawlessly. I watched my 32" TV on Dish for about 4 hours in the evening and still had over 70% SOC in the mornings to make my coffee.

Side note I installed a 2K Magnum Dimensions Inverter to replace the 1K that comes with the Isata. I can run anything but the AC on it including the Microwave with a short 2 foot extension cord so it can be plugged into one of the outlets above the sink as they are powered by the Inverter and the Microwave isn't. Flexibility

Just a side note....we were looking at doing the same thing, but the wiring is for a 15A line and the 2000W is a 20A line.

So we could not just swap a 2k for the 1k, we had to change the wiring to meet code.

Your coach and I would likely do the same if it were my coach personally...just mentioning it.

14-2 vs 12-2 wire.

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Just a side note....we were looking at doing the same thing, but the wiring is for a 15A line and the 2000W is a 20A line.

So we could not just swap a 2k for the 1k, we had to change the wiring to meet code.

Your coach and I would likely do the same if it were my coach personally...just mentioning it.

14-2 vs 12-2 wire.

I'm careful not to run anything over 15 amps so I don't worry about it. The 2K Inverter only puts out 16.6A versus the 8.3A of the 1K and the Microwave only draws 13A. so far so good.

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I may be mistaken, since it doesn't come up much, but I think the Trucks use the BIRD, the Isata 3 uses the BCC (Battery Control Center) instead.

So in that case the BIM would replace the BCC. Though the BCC is really the whole contraption in the step well area.

You would still want to put in a lithium converter as well so it can also properly identify the lithium batteries. The BIM just controls the gateway between the two battery sets and charging process (alternator or house charger)

What you see in the picture above is the BIM, in place of the Solenoid that is in the BCC housing.(in the step well of the the Isata 3). Other than the CB, and the 2020.5 which is BIM already.

Making the plunge! Installing lithium and converting my PD4060 to lithium. Now comes the stupid questions. I have the Go Power 200 watt solar panel option, will that charge the batteries ok? Also what do I need to do to have the chassis alternator charge the lithium batteries? I know this is probably old school for a lot of folks but I am trying to catch up. This is on a 2018 Series 4 31DS.
Thanks for any input

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Oldnapapartsguy

Making the plunge! Installing lithium and converting my PD4060 to lithium. Now comes the stupid questions. I have the Go Power 200 watt solar panel option, will that charge the batteries ok? Also what do I need to do to have the chassis alternator charge the lithium batteries? I know this is probably old school for a lot of folks but I am trying to catch up. This is on a 2018 Series 4 31DS.
Thanks for any input

Ooh, I know this one. If you have the Zamp Solar Controller it should have a Lithium Profile already built in and just needs to be selected. Unfortunately I had to replace my controller because my Isata3 is a 2016 and had a 2016 Zamp Controller. I think they started including the Lithium Profile in 2017. I'm not familiar with your MH but mine required the Precision Circuits LI-BIM 225 to charge from the Alternator. It is available on Amazon. Changing out the Converter Section of the PD4060 is pretty easy. You will not regret the upgrade.

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

Ooh, I know this one. If you have the Zamp Solar Controller it should have a Lithium Profile already built in and just needs to be selected. Unfortunately I had to replace my controller because my Isata3 is a 2016 and had a 2016 Zamp Controller. I think they started including the Lithium Profile in 2017. I'm not familiar with your MH but mine required the Precision Circuits LI-BIM 225 to charge from the Alternator. It is available on Amazon. Changing out the Converter Section of the PD4060 is pretty easy. You will not regret the upgrade.

Mine has the GO Power, not Zamp. Not sure if it has Lithium capabilities. My rig is an early 18. Guess if I need to I can replace it with a Zamp How hard is the LI_BIM 225 to install?

[mlmay12]

Originally Posted by Oldnapapartsguy

Mine has the GO Power, not Zamp. Not sure if it has Lithium capabilities. My rig is an early 18. Guess if I need to I can replace it with a Zamp How hard is the LI_BIM 225 to install?

Mine has the GO Power Panels and Zamp Controller. I'd say just look at your manual and cycle through the Battery Mode Selector on your controller to see if you have a Lithium Selection or contact the manufacturer of your solar controller. The LI BIM installation was not that hard on My Isata3 Battery Control Center which is different than yours. Hopefully if someone has done one in your type MH they can help you.

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by mlmay12

Mine has the GO Power Panels and Zamp Controller. I'd say just look at your manual and cycle through the Battery Mode Selector on your controller to see if you have a Lithium Selection or contact the manufacturer of your solar controller. The LI BIM installation was not that hard on My Isata3 Battery Control Center which is different than yours. Hopefully if someone has done one in your type MH they can help you.

Thanks again! My motorhome is currently not here so makes it hard to check it out. I think mine is a Zamp, labeled Go Power, since it looks just like the Zamp. I will check this out, worse case I replace the controller. Mine is surface mounted. Go Power shows nothing like what I have on my unit. Hoping Brian will chime in

[bclemens]

I doubt an 18 will have the lithium profile.

IF I was going to convert to lithium...
#1 I would get a Victron battery monitor. Likely the "smart shunt". The system you have today, bases state of charge off of voltage which makes it worthless for lithium as lithium will be 12.8 volts until it dies.

#2 I would get a Victron MPPT solar controller. Hooks up to the same smart phone app that the smart shunt does and you it gives you way more data than "charging, not charging, 50%).

PS. If looking for the controller, just look up the Zamp 30 Amp PWm controller. We used to use that, but obviously it was made for them by someone else, because when we changed panels, the Go_power controller is the exact same one, but they put their logo on it.

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I doubt an 18 will have the lithium profile.

IF I was going to convert to lithium...
#1 I would get a Victron battery monitor. Likely the "smart shunt". The system you have today, bases state of charge off of voltage which makes it worthless for lithium as lithium will be 12.8 volts until it dies.

#2 I would get a Victron MPPT solar controller. Hooks up to the same smart phone app that the smart shunt does and you it gives you way more data than "charging, not charging, 50%).

PS. If looking for the controller, just look up the Zamp 30 Amp PWm controller. We used to use that, but obviously it was made for them by someone else, because when we changed panels, the Go_power controller is the exact same one, but they put their logo on it.

I think my series 4 has the BCC like the 3 does so I assume I need to install the LI-BIM 225.

[bclemens]

that is correct.

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I doubt an 18 will have the lithium profile.

IF I was going to convert to lithium...
#1 I would get a Victron battery monitor. Likely the "smart shunt". The system you have today, bases state of charge off of voltage which makes it worthless for lithium as lithium will be 12.8 volts until it dies.

#2 I would get a Victron MPPT solar controller. Hooks up to the same smart phone app that the smart shunt does and you it gives you way more data than "charging, not charging, 50%).

PS. If looking for the controller, just look up the Zamp 30 Amp PWm controller. We used to use that, but obviously it was made for them by someone else, because when we changed panels, the Go_power controller is the exact same one, but they put their logo on it.

I have the smart shunt on order, but they are on back order so waiting. Maybe Aug or Sept

[Oldnapapartsguy]

Originally Posted by Oldnapapartsguy

I have the smart shunt on order, but they are on back order so waiting. Maybe Aug or Sept

If anyone is looking for the Victron smart shunt Inverters R Us has them in stock!! I have been waiting since April and finally they are in stock. I think this is about the only place.


Victron SmartShunt – The Smart Battery Shunt SHU050150050
$130.90


IN STOCK!

[tewasch]

I'm looking to learn from your experience.

If anyone is still watching this thread, I'm curious of using a LiBIM as a function of the size of LiFePO4 batteries you are going to connect? I see in the photo what looks like 200Ahr batteries. Would you do the same thing if you had 600Ahr batteries? Would the flow into the batteries from the alternator be 3X more (68A * 3 = 204A) and hurt the alternator?