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Old 05-22-2024, 08:29 PM   #1
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Naaaammmme that Pipe!

Ok, I'm working on plumbing in a compost toilet. I removed the chase cover that is to the right of the bathroom sink cabinet, just behind the toilet. I am wondering if the pipe circled in red in the picture is a drain pipe and if it goes to the grey or black tank?? Who can tell me about this pipe?? TIA!
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Old 05-22-2024, 08:59 PM   #2
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I name it Marge.
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Old 05-22-2024, 09:42 PM   #3
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I name it Marge.
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To Marge.
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Old 05-23-2024, 06:11 AM   #4
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Have you pulled the access panel under the shower pan? I have been assuming the drain from the shower ran through that bulkhead.... but I have not been able to investigate it further.

I think the kitchen sink drain meets up with the shower drain under the vanity and then drains into the grey tank there. You can see the kitchen sink drain pipe coming from the left under the vanity (red arrow below) then going down to the floor. So it would make sense that is the shower drain.

On a related note..... how difficult was it to disassemble that bulkhead without damaging it? Any tips you can offer?

I'm considering installing a Dometic 320 toilet and concerned I may need to modify the area behind the toilet to get it to fit.
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Old 05-23-2024, 09:08 AM   #5
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Have you pulled the access panel under the shower pan? I have been assuming the drain from the shower ran through that bulkhead.... but I have not been able to investigate it further.

I think the kitchen sink drain meets up with the shower drain under the vanity and then drains into the grey tank there. You can see the kitchen sink drain pipe coming from the left under the vanity (red arrow below) then going down to the floor. So it would make sense that is the shower drain.

On a related note..... how difficult was it to disassemble that bulkhead without damaging it? Any tips you can offer?

I'm considering installing a Dometic 320 toilet and concerned I may need to modify the area behind the toilet to get it to fit.
That's a good idea, the access port for the shower was hiding behind our little trash can that i had moved out of the way, totally forgot about it. I'll pull off that cover and see what I can see. In your picture there is a line that runs below those and it goes down into the black tank I think. I'm thinking that either the kitchen sink or bathroom sink actually run into the black tank. It's hard to tell because the bathroom sink goes into the wall not right over to one of those pipes. The other line that I circled is probably one of the sinks coming to join the shower and then drain into the grey tank.

I was dewinterizing and noticed how quickly the black tank started filling when I realized that one of the sinks was clearly draining into it. Today I'll figure out which one when I finish the sanitizing process.

The great thing is that by sealing the drain for the toilet and adding a Valterra valve at the end of the dump line I was able to combine both tanks and double my effective grey capacity. We're going to use an OGO toilet that is super easy to dump. It doesn't have to be removed from the coach to do it. This will actually turn out to be a much cleaner and easier way to dump the "black" and give us more capacity at the same time. Then I don't have to deal with the black tank at dump stations and the whole flushing mess while the queue builds behind me

That bulkhead (I called it a chase) came apart very easyily. It's just stapled together. I used a putty knife to pry up the trim. I'm debating if I'm going to put it back together the same way or just install some nice boards, might be a nice look that way too. I'll see after I get the plumbing sorted.
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Old 05-23-2024, 12:04 PM   #6
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I was dewinterizing and noticed how quickly the black tank started filling when I realized that one of the sinks was clearly draining into it. Today I'll figure out which one when I finish the sanitizing process.
The drain line coming from the left wall under the vanity and running down to my red arrow is the kitchen sink drain.

I am 99% sure the bathroom sink goes to the black tank and the kitchen sink goes to the grey tank.

I was working with another 24FW owner a month or so ago because he thought he had a problem with the grey tank. Turns out the bathroom sink was going to the black tank.

According to the Dynamax documentation (attached) the bathroom sink is supposed to go to the grey tank but that appears not to be the case. I would say that is why you don't see the drain for the bathroom sink immediately tie into the drain pipe coming from the kitchen sink down to where the shower drain runs.

My previous coaches had the bathroom sinks drain into the black tank. I assumed it was to make sure there was adequate water in the black tank for a full dump plus it made the plumbing easier and helped reduce the grey tank filling since showers and doing the dishes use a lot of water.
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Old 05-23-2024, 02:50 PM   #7
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Not sure what document is attached as that is just the floor plan. Below is the latest 24FW drainage diagram.
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Old 05-23-2024, 03:00 PM   #8
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Not sure what document is attached as that is just the floor plan. Below is the latest 24FW drainage diagram.

I found the other document posted either on this Forum or the Facebook site and it shows that the Kitchen Sink, Bath Sink and Shower to be plumbed to the Grey Tank for a 24FW (dated October 2020).

Thanks for posting this and verifying the bathroom sink does drain to the black tank and the other document is incorrect.


Dave..... that pipe you circled under the chase is the drain pipe coming from the kitchen sink and meets up with the drain for the shower into the grey tank under the shower pan.
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Old 05-24-2024, 08:58 AM   #9
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I found the other document posted either on this Forum or the Facebook site and it shows that the Kitchen Sink, Bath Sink and Shower to be plumbed to the Grey Tank for a 24FW (dated October 2020).

Thanks for posting this and verifying the bathroom sink does drain to the black tank and the other document is incorrect.


Dave..... that pipe you circled under the chase is the drain pipe coming from the kitchen sink and meets up with the drain for the shower into the grey tank under the shower pan.
Brian - thanks for the diagram, just what I needed! Would you happen to have a diagram of the water lines as well?

Chris - thanks for the prodding to open the access under the shower, I was able to confirm that the drain line in question did in fact Y in with the shower drain to dump into the grey tank. Now I'm off to do a little minor plumbing work!
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Old 05-24-2024, 09:15 AM   #10
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Sounds like Marge is getting the resolution she needs!

In a related note, can I get ANOTHER round of applause for Brian? Holy Cats, it makes things great to have helpful commercial members here. Likewise, while it si.can be a huge time suck (doing customer service online and in a public forum), having such a large user group has got to be a competitive advantage, especially for a premium brand. Frankly, I don't know why more manufacturers (or divisions) don't have a commercial presence here. It'd be beneficial for owners AND manufacturers, all aspects.

Anyway, cheers!
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Old 05-24-2024, 09:19 AM   #11
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Sounds like Marge is getting the resolution she needs!

In a related note, can I get ANOTHER round of applause for Brian? Holy Cats, it makes things great to have helpful commercial members here. Likewise, while it si.can be a huge time suck (doing customer service online and in a public forum), having such a large user group has got to be a competitive advantage, especially for a premium brand. Frankly, I don't know why more manufacturers (or divisions) don't have a commercial presence here. It'd be beneficial for owners AND manufacturers, all aspects.

Anyway, cheers!
Marge is very happy indeed, now she knows she can extend her role in servicing her camping family and she is so thrilled!

And yes, the service and attention is so amazing, Brian is the man!!
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Old 05-24-2024, 11:22 AM   #12
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Here is the fresh water, but in 3D it is hard to see all the connections.

As a side note, we have just gone through an exercise looking at every supply layout. The reason for this was we went from an H-style, water heater bypass to a U-style, which "should" save parts and crimps. I saw one of these set ups in person and it appeared we added connections due to the space we were in. So production started a deep dive on why (we made it harder, when it should have been simpler), which led to a deeper dive.

This resulted in taking 16 crimps out of the 24FW, 28 out of the 28SS and 40 crimps out of the 30FW.

PS. I try every year to get corporate to post these. At the very least, I feel like we should/could post plumbing, even if they are still concerned about liability on electrical.
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Old 05-24-2024, 12:14 PM   #13
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Here is the fresh water, but in 3D it is hard to see all the connections.

As a side note, we have just gone through an exercise looking at every supply layout. The reason for this was we went from an H-style, water heater bypass to a U-style, which "should" save parts and crimps. I saw one of these set ups in person and it appeared we added connections due to the space we were in. So production started a deep dive on why (we made it harder, when it should have been simpler), which led to a deeper dive.

This resulted in taking 16 crimps out of the 24FW, 28 out of the 28SS and 40 crimps out of the 30FW.

PS. I try every year to get corporate to post these. At the very least, I feel like we should/could post plumbing, even if they are still concerned about liability on electrical.
Thanks! That sounds pretty cool on removing all the crimps. Nice way to also reduce potential for leaks. I don't see the H-Setup in the diagram. It looks like the diagram must be for the non-Freedom Edition coach based on the location of the fresh water tank and filter.

On another note, I was crawling around under the coach the other day adding more pex to the drain lines so they drained below the frame. I noticed some blue pex lines running along the underside. I haven't traced them out yet but are those potential freeze points if we're in freezing weather. I had assumed the coach was a four season setup since the water tank was inside and it seemed like the water lines ran through a channel in the floor. Those exposed blue pex lines got me thinking this is not the case. Do I need to be concerned about lines freezing even if I have the Truma heater running in freezing weather?
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Old 05-25-2024, 09:35 AM   #14
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Not really (4) season. 3.5 season more like. The heat ducts are run along the water lines in most cases, but the utility bay is not heated and enclosed.
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Old 05-25-2024, 09:53 AM   #15
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Just an FYI post - So my supposition that the one or both sinks drained into the black tank was incorrect. In fact in the 24FW Freedom Edition we own NEITHER sink drains into the black tank despite the diagram showing the bathroom sink should.
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Old 05-25-2024, 11:16 AM   #16
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Just an FYI post - So my supposition that the one or both sinks drained into the black tank was incorrect. In fact in the 24FW Freedom Edition we own NEITHER sink drains into the black tank despite the diagram showing the bathroom sink should.

Really??????

Did you determine that by running water and watching the tank drain or did you see the bathroom sink plumbed into kitchen sink drain?

The bathroom sink drain exits into the wall adjacent to the fridge. You would probably have to pull the fridge to see it. If you go back to Brian's drawing, the bathroom sink should tie into a pipe that vents to the roof and then drain to the black tank.

But looking at the drawing I can see how someone could accidentally tie the bathroom drain into the pipe that connects to the vent for the kitchen drain and then allows the bathroom sink to drain into the grey tank. Both tanks use the same vent pipe leading to the roof.

When you look at the pick above I posed with the red arrow, the bathroom sink is very close to the kitchen sink drain pipe. I could see how the bathroom sink drain could be tied together behind the wall with the pipe from the kitchen sink p-trap.

I won't get back north to start working on my new 24FWSFX until June 27 so I will need to invesigate this further since it will impact water management a bit.
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Old 05-25-2024, 11:45 AM   #17
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Really??????

Did you determine that by running water and watching the tank drain or did you see the bathroom sink plumbed into kitchen sink drain?

The bathroom sink drain exits into the wall adjacent to the fridge. You would probably have to pull the fridge to see it. If you go back to Brian's drawing, the bathroom sink should tie into a pipe that vents to the roof and then drain to the black tank.

But looking at the drawing I can see how someone could accidentally tie the bathroom drain into the pipe that connects to the vent for the kitchen drain and then allows the bathroom sink to drain into the grey tank. Both tanks use the same vent pipe leading to the roof.

When you look at the pick above I posed with the red arrow, the bathroom sink is very close to the kitchen sink drain pipe. I could see how the bathroom sink drain could be tied together behind the wall with the pipe from the kitchen sink p-trap.

I won't get back north to start working on my new 24FWSFX until June 27 so I will need to invesigate this further since it will impact water management a bit.
Yep, really. I was sanitizing the system yesterday. Got to the part where you're flushing all the lines. So with both tanks completely empty I started flushing the lines in the kithen sink, bathroom sink, and shower. The grey gradually filled and the black stayed completely empty.

I had cut the drain line by this point and added a clean out so I was able to watch the water go by as I ran both sinks. I think the pipe that I thought was the drain going into the black tank was actually the vent for the black tank coming out.

Since I'm combining both tanks it's not really an issue for us but if I wasn't I'd definitely be dumping some water down the toilet from dishwashing, etc. to save on the grey capacity.

As you mentioned, you can't see where the bathroom sink goes without more fiddling than I need to do but now, at least on my particular coach, I know for sure it goes to the grey tank. It appears that drain line is also doubling as the vent for the grey tank.

If you look closely the diagram is for a non Freedom Edition, the water tank is in the wrong place as well as the water filter.
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Old 05-25-2024, 11:52 AM   #18
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Well..... that's a bit of a bummer given both tanks are 32 gallon.

So are you under the coach tying the tanks together?

I was just wondering if a drain could be added up high to dump the grey tank into the black tank once it was full. Probably not a good or easy solution.

Not sure this could be easily corrected to factory specs. There would need to be a pipe that dumps into the top of the black tank for the bathroom sink to tie into. If that pipe doesn't exist already, it would not be easy to add and properly seal it with the floor in place.
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Old 05-25-2024, 12:01 PM   #19
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Well..... that's a bit of a bummer given both tanks are 32 gallon.

So are you under the coach tying the tanks together?

I was just wonderin if a drain could be added up high to dump the grey tank into the black tank once it was full. Probably not a good or easy solution.

Not sure it could be easily corrected to factory specs. There would need to be a pipe that dumps into the top of the black tank for the bathroom sink to tie into. If that pipe doesn't exist already, it would not be easy to add and properly seal it with the floor in place.
I actually took the easy way out. I added this Valterra valve at the end of the drain pipe: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BGHYJS/. I also added this cap: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0006N5RYK/. So now if I want to combine both tanks I make sure the Valterra is closed and pull both tank handles to open the drains for each tank. In a few moments the tanks equalize in effect doubling my tank capacity. By having the cap with the 3/4" outlet as well I can attach a long hose to the drain if I have a long distance to a drain/dump. It's much easier to carry a hose for that purpose than carrying more sections of sewer hose for longer distances.
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Old 05-25-2024, 12:01 PM   #20
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Not sure what document is attached as that is just the floor plan. Below is the latest 24FW drainage diagram.


Brian...... if those of us we with the Freedom Edition see that our coaches also have the bathroom sink dumping into the grey tank instead of the black per your spec, would that be something you could correct at the factory?

I'd feel better about the factory doing that vs a dealer.
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