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Old 06-11-2024, 11:48 AM   #1
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Sprinter Owners - Thoughts on 4500 (GVWR 12,125)

Mercedes-Benz offers a 4500 version of their chassis. It is more money by a few thousand.

4500- 12,125# GVWR, 15,250# GCWR
3500- 11,030# GVWR, 15,250# GCWR

So you can get more CCC....but then the towing goes down. If you use ALL of the 12,125, that leaves you with 3125 towing. Not many things fall in that category.

My fear, is a customer not understanding that. Thye look at the yellow sticker and see all that CCC, then they try to hook up their Jeep Wrangler they have always towed at 4,000lbs. Suddenly, they don't have all that CCC.

Would you pay more to get the extra 1,000 lbs of CCC, and then just use a smaller towed?
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Old 06-11-2024, 03:28 PM   #2
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Not a Sprinter guy, but curious what is holding them back on increasing the GCWR. Whether it is a performance issue (cooling, brakes, etc) or some type of regulatory matter. The 15250# GVWR seems oddly specific.

I had an older Isata 3 next to me leaving the ag station going up the Mountain Pass grade on I-15, and was impressed with his rate of acceleration. Seemed no lack of power.
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Old 06-12-2024, 06:31 AM   #3
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I'm a little surprised the overall GCWR doesn't go up in the 4500 vs the 3500.

If I think all of the Sprinters in this Class C size that I have seen in my travels across all manufacturers, I would say at least half are pulling a vehicle and probably 75% of them are a Jeep 2 or 4 door.

I understand this stuff better than most owners. While I don't condone people overloading their rigs, there is a bit of wiggle room when you look at the individual components (brakes, drive train, suspension). I personally have no issue being overweight by 250 - 500lbs fully loaded knowing as I burn fuel I get closer to being in spec. Depending on what I am carrying I will adjust how much water I carry, etc.

However, when you start talking about being overweight my 750lbs or more, that is a different dynamic with a higher risk and a line is being crossed.

I think you run into serious concerns for most owners who don't understand this stuff. If you switch to the 4500 and lose almost 1000lbs of towing capacity. Most people won't want to sell their Jeep and buy a Mini Cooper if they want to be weight compliant. They will either just tow the Jeep or they will look at other coach options.

If I hadn't bought my Freedom Edition yet and you told me I would have to purchase one on a 4500 chassis, I would have had to seriously consider looking at another manufacturer.

I downsized from a Super C and have a Jeep Wrangler. I know the current Freedom Edition could handle it for my use. We don't intend to tow the Jeep all the time like we did with the Super C but when we need to we could do it without much risk.

I personally would not buy a tiny car just to have as a tow to deal with the change to the 4500 chassis and you would have likely lost a new Dynamax customer.

My vote is stick with the 3500.

The 3500 is a safer play at the end of the day. These coaches have limited storage space anyway. Unless you start talking about adding a foot or two more length for additional carrying space... how much more stuff can people put into them to take advantage of 1000lbs more CCC?
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Old 06-12-2024, 08:34 AM   #4
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I think you run into serious concerns for most owners who don't understand this stuff. If you switch to the 4500 and lose almost 1000lbs of towing capacity. Most people won't want to sell their Jeep and buy a Mini Cooper if they want to be weight compliant. They will either just tow the Jeep or they will look at other coach options.

If I hadn't bought my Freedom Edition yet and you told me I would have to purchase one on a 4500 chassis, I would have had to seriously consider looking at another manufacturer.

I downsized from a Super C and have a Jeep Wrangler. I know the current Freedom Edition could handle it for my use. We don't intend to tow the Jeep all the time like we did with the Super C but when we need to we could do it without much risk.

I personally would not buy a tiny car just to have as a tow to deal with the change to the 4500 chassis and you would have likely lost a new Dynamax customer.

My vote is stick with the 3500.

The 3500 is a safer play at the end of the day. These coaches have limited storage space anyway. Unless you start talking about adding a foot or two more length for additional carrying space... how much more stuff can people put into them to take advantage of 1000lbs more CCC?
You don't actually lose 1000 lbs of towing. You potentially do.

So for you, if you had the 4500, it would change nothing. You just load it like you do today, it still leaves you 4000 lbs of towing. it really only offers flexibility to the people that would want a smaller tow vehicle, and use more of the GVWR.

That's the tricky part...people towing Jeeps, would never use the extra GVWR, but they would be paying for it.
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Old 06-12-2024, 09:11 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by bclemens View Post
You don't actually lose 1000 lbs of towing. You potentially do.

So for you, if you had the 4500, it would change nothing. You just load it like you do today, it still leaves you 4000 lbs of towing. it really only offers flexibility to the people that would want a smaller tow vehicle, and use more of the GVWR.

That's the tricky part...people towing Jeeps, would never use the extra GVWR, but they would be paying for it.

You are correct, sir! I was thinking about using both the extra CCC and the same towing capacity. But just because you have extra CCC doesn't mean you have to use it.

Now with that in perspective, I could still load the same way I do today and exchange the unused CCC for the same towing capacity. Then if I don't tow the Jeep, I can use the extra CCC.

Is that worth the extra cost? It may be for people who want more flexibility. Would I pay the extra cost now with changing my thinking? I probably would.

But I still go back to my previous point. There is only so much room to carry stuff in a ~25' coach.

One thing I like about the Freedom Edition is that I essentially get two additional storage bays. But the bulk of the other Isata 3's out there have a generator and propane so they have even less room to carry stuff.

If I had a regular 24FW, I don't think I could carry another 1000lbs of stuff with the space available even if you gave me 1000lbs more CCC.

But there are people who boondock and want to carry a full load of water and there are folks who have three German Shepherds tagging along so giving them more CCC if they don't tow would be a plus for them.

I guess at the end of the day the question really is.... will people pay X for the flexibility between more CCC or towing as they do today.... without knowing how much X will be?

Best I can tell the 4500 costs ~$2,500 over the 3500XL. I think that is a minimal increase for the added flexibility and I would pay for it.

But the 2025's Isata 3's just had an increase of about ~$7,500 going from the V6 to the I4 chassis. That may start pricing some people out of the new Isata 3 market with a $10K - $12K increase in MSRP in two model years time and what appears to be a slowing market.
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Old 06-13-2024, 02:49 PM   #6
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The I3 is our car and rv, as we planned. The idea of having to lift the jacks and close the slide to drive somewhere sounds like a pita. However, in practice, it's a 5 minute deal to prep and leave and not nearly as labor intensive as one would think it would be.

Having to put stuff away before travelling? No problem, the rig is so small there is almost nothing to put away

Chairs, tables, mats outside? Leave in place. Worst case is they get ripped off and we get to go shopping for newer stuff!

Going 75 down the freeway not towing? GREAT!

Now, travelling with 15 gallons of fresh water, full tank of diesel, 2 gallons of black and no gallons of gray, Top bunk mattresses removed, ladder and rail removed, just to stay below 11k? PITA!

Here's one vote for the 4500 with 1900 CCC!

And btw, I only have 60% of outside storage used, and 30% of bunk storage used. So I would have the space to put in another 1000 ccc.
I would also put my electric bike and rack on the back of the i3, which I am not doing now...that's an extra 100 lbs.
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Old 06-13-2024, 03:01 PM   #7
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Also, because the i3 is our car....

* I don't hook up the sewer until i'm ready to dump at night as needed.

* I haven't had to hook up electric with all the battery power available, until I'm home for the day, usually after dinner. that may change as we move into the summer, but the 30 amp cord is so easy to handle it shouldn't be a problem.

* I MAY have to hook up the water during the daytime due to limited water capacity. The 4500 chassis would eliminate this.

Those things make it easy to use the i3 as the daytime car..
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Old 06-13-2024, 10:48 PM   #8
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We are also in the "no toad" group. An extra 1k lbs would be handy but really, with just the two of us I don't think we are that close to limit now.
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Old 06-14-2024, 07:30 AM   #9
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Also, it has to be worth roughly $3000 more.
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Old 06-14-2024, 08:54 AM   #10
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I wonder how much of that extra 1,000 lb goes towards the CCC and how much goes towards beefing up the chassis to handle the extra 1,000 lb.
The curb weight of the 4500 is higher than the $3,500
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Old 06-14-2024, 09:27 AM   #11
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That puts the MSRP up at least $10K between the change to the I4 chassis and then adding the 4500 on top of it.

My 2024 24FWSFX had a MSRP of $219K so with the I4 and 4500 it would have been at least $230K assuming there weren't any Dynamax specific price increases and that price is still far enough from the Isata 5's.

There are limited '25 Wayfarers and '25 Viennas online and they are all on the 3500 and some still have the v6. I know the Wayfarer's struggle with CCC and the Vienna only has a 4200 Tow Rating.

If you start offering the 4500, that could be a differentiator in the high end MB category and might sway some possible Tiffin and Renegade business your way.


I suppose I would pay the extra $3000 for the flexibility between either carrying more stuff when I'm not towing or towing and carrying a little less stuff.
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Old 06-15-2024, 05:47 PM   #12
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Yes.

I would gladly pay more for the increased CCC.
I have been lurking around this forum for a while, because I would love to buy a new Isata 3 freedom edition, but as someone new to the idea of RV's - I generally don't have anything useful to add, just a pile of questions.

However - in regard to this, I live in the Rocky Mountains, I would feel FAR more comfortable on our mountain roads knowing that I was well under the CCC. Especially if I could add AWD with the new chassis being used in 2025.
To my inexperienced mind - the beauty of being under 25 feet total is not needing to tow anything, which beyond a few bicycles - I have no need or desire to ever do.

Thanks to all for the info thus far, I have learned a lot.
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