On our recent trip, I discovered water inside 4 compartments (Isata 4 25FW). This occurred during a ~2 hr drive during light rain. Tanks were drained before traveling, but several gallons of fresh water were added to the black tank along w/ chemical solution. The wet bay and connected compartment directly across under the tanks had a significant amount of water, and the compartments had a black tank odor. The front compartments (connected with a pass through at the top) had perhaps 1/4" to 3/8" of water, enough to get to the top of the roto-cast ribs in the bottom. The water in the front compartments did not seem to have any odor (but looking back I'm not 100% on that), so I suspected it came from rain or road spray. The very rear pass through compartment was completely dry.
We drained the tanks every time before driving after that, and had no more occurrences (at least in back, I didn't open front compartments that often). We really didn't have any significant rain while driving after that one time. Since getting home, I emptied everything out of the compartments, and put about 25 gallons in the black tank. Then drove to a nearby parking lot and did some donuts - well not really, but I drove in some tight circles and hit the brakes hard a few times. Got out and looked and had water pouring out of both sides in the back. So that experiment confirmed a black tank issue, likely the toilet flange connection as I read in a a post on this forum (6/17/19).
But I am stumped on the water in the front compartments. It's definitely not coming through the door seals, as I hit those pretty heavy with a hose when washing. The compartment plugs were difinitely in when the water got in. The front compartments are at least 6 ft behind the wheels, and driver's side shielded by the generator, passenger side shielded by the battery compartment. It doesn't seem like road spray would be really heavy at the top edge of the roto-cast compartment to put a decent amount of water in on a short trip. I don't recall splashing thru any big puddles, and it didn't seem like there was really that much rain. I'm wondering whether there is any other way those compartments could get water?
You test with the hose while the rig is stationary is not a positive check for gasket seal. As you drive things fex which could account for the water in the front compartment from spray.
pull the toilet and check the flange and area above the tank if you can get to it, I think you are on the right path to figuring out what is going on.
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Think I will partially fill the gray tank and drive around like I did for the black tank. I want to be sure no other problems before I take it in for warranty work. Plus I also had considered that the tank vents might be involved, as discussed in this thread : http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...-187478-2.html
Will also get under with a hose and spray around everything to see if water gets into the front compartments - it had to come from somewhere...
Since I got my slide back in today (another post), I drove around w/ about 25 gals in my gray tank, but black tank empty. Same protocol as before: a couple of tight circles in a parking lot, both left and right turns, and some hard braking. Absolutely didn't expect this, but there is water in the back compartments.
For the purposes of this post, I am calling the "back" compartments on my I4 25FW the ones directly behind the rear wheels: wet bay on drivers side and connecting compartment under the waste tanks on the passenger side.
(the very rear pass through compartment has been fine) May not be technically correct to call these "back", but I also had some water in the very front compartments, probably due to rain on the road, so this is just to distinguish which compartments I am talking about.
Photos attached are from today's excursion w/ water only in the gray tank, which I added by ~8 (3) gal buckets into the front sink - about 25 gals in a 42 gal tank. PPlex panel shows 2/3 full. After driving in circles, more water in the passenger (right) side, but definitely some in the left and drips visible on the drain pipes, which probably indicates that the water came off the upper part of the rotocast compartment that connects between the 2 sides under the tanks.
I put the water in 3 days ago (before slide stuck out), and compartments were completely dry today before driving, so apparently no leaks in piping before the tank? But apparently the vent pipe is pulled out of the tank??
Maybe this is the same as my black tank issue with the vent pipe not fully connected, but black tank experiment had MUCH more water in compartments, so my thought is leakage at the toilet flange.
Guess both areas will have to be checked when it goes in for service...
Here is the leakage from my black tanks after previously driving in circles, with gray tank empty. You can tell we had some residual (blue) chemicals in the tank before I added ~25 gals of water. Plus the drawing of the drain layout.
Found the source of water in front compartments. Laid down and shot a hose around the front side of the right compartment (shower setting, not full force jet). Got a fair amount water inside, so sponged that out and tried again to isolate the leak location. It's the vertical joint on the outside edge at the front of the compartment. After sponging out again, stuck my head inside and can actually see light for a couple of inches near the bottom of that joint. Closer to the top it looks like there is some kind of gasket material between the rotocast compartment and the outside wall, but the material is loose or missing near the bottom.
Didn't try to find the leak on the driver's side compartment (because it was wet & muddy there), but expect similar.
I'll have the service dept seal these up when I take the coach in to resolve the black tank flush, black tank & gray tank leakage issues next week.
Service tech dropped my waste tanks down a little, then reinstalled them after finding the tanks themselves did not leak. Finally got them to drive around w/ partial water fill, and they replicated my findings of water in the compartments. They pulled the black tank, and the photo below shows how bad it was. They are trying to order a new black tank. However, they say gray tank doesn't look the same (top not "caved in"), and now doesn't leak after driving around half full.
Since water came out of the top of the gray before, just reinstalling doesn't correct the problem, in my opinion. They say they have to go protocol w/ their warranty rep. Since Brian has previously posted about the various fixes for the tanks, can I assume that the warranty rep will communicate whatever engineering fixes Dynamax has come up with? Pg 8 of this post: http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ss-166160.html
If the tank is not caved, then it would not be an issue and a new tank would not be needed. In fact we can fix the caved tanks as well, but if it is already out, sometimes it is just easier to replace. Depends on the situation.
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I just want to ensure that the service techs have the benefit of any fixes/advice your engineering dept has come up with regarding the tank problems. At this time it seems they are working on their own. They found no leakage from their initial fills, until I had them drive around with partially filled tanks, Now they have no leakage from the gray tank (after reconnecting the tank). I want to make sure that there is some kind of fix applied to the gray tank, or else it will certainly happen again.
If the black tank is replaced, will it be the redesign you mentioned in that previous post?
I just want to ensure that the service techs have the benefit of any fixes/advice your engineering dept has come up with regarding the tank problems. At this time it seems they are working on their own. They found no leakage from their initial fills, until I had them drive around with partially filled tanks, Now they have no leakage from the gray tank (after reconnecting the tank). I want to make sure that there is some kind of fix applied to the gray tank, or else it will certainly happen again.
If the black tank is replaced, will it be the redesign you mentioned in that previous post?
Likely not. The new tank was simply to try and prevent an issue that can occur from packaging. The old tank is not broken...simply when they ship them back to back, the outlet on one was creating an indentation on the top of the other. Now, we know not to install that tank and we have also made sure the supplier does not ship them that way.
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The replacement for the tank lost in shipping got to the dealer on 11/14, and they marked the fitting locations and sent to an vendor to spin on the fittings. After various communications w/ the service advisor over the past 2-1/2 weeks since then, he finally had had his parts manager investigate the delay and contact me. Apparently they are now waiting on special fittings: "the tanks that Forest River sent us are a special plastic and our normal fittings will not weld to it."
REALLY??!! As of this past weekend, my coach has been in the shop for 4 months (since August 7th). After a lot of fooling around and lack of communication between the dealer and Dynamax, it was finally decided to replace the tanks w/ spun on fittings on 9/23/19. And just now, 2-1/2 months further down the road it is "discovered" that the fitting material must be compatible with the tanks?
Excuse my obvious frustration, but what went wrong here? I guess I wasn't originally aware that the new tanks weren't going to come with fittings attached. Shouldn't Dynamax have sent the appropriate fittings along with the tanks? Or was this expected to be a simple operation that the dealer's service department could easily handle?
The service manage has assured me that he will complete this job as soon as he gets parts, but this is not just a dealer issue - Dynamax is also involved. I expected dealer service to have better communications w/ Dynamax engineering, but that is also a 2 way street.
Don't know what I expect in response to this post, other than awareness of the issue...
That's weird because we use the same ABS tanks that I think 100% of the industry uses.
Fresh water tanks are a different plastic...but not sure why these would be special, other than some people do not carry the tools to spin in the fittings.
Though I will have to look into why we are going this route and not just getting a new tank out. While spin-in threaded fittings ensure no issues down the road, I would be absolutely confident in installing them the way that 95% of the industry does (without threaded fittings)
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There should be a trail where Brian M and Cary J were involved. I have felt that the service advisor / tech have not been adequately communicating the issues to your end and also not receiving appropriate or detailed repair instructions from Dynamax.
Service Advisor's "understanding" is that the plastic company needs some special fittings because the tank wall is too thin for normal fittings to be spun on. As of today, he is to personally call the plastic company to find out just how "special" the fittings they are supposedly waiting for are. He also said there has been an e-mail to Dynamax that he is waiting for a response on, regarding whether they can supply the proper fittings.
Although this forum is not the appropriate place to vent my frustration with this whole fiasco, apparently I just did. I am not trying to place fault, just trying to get a solution that works. I have low expectations for a near term solution, given that many are off for the holidays.
Since there are several other examples on this forum of problems with the vent and toilet connections on the top of the tanks on Isatas, folks should recognize that replacing the rubber grommets with threaded fittings may not be a straightforward solution.
My service advisor believes the root of the problem involves that shallow tank design, and I agree that contributes to tank flexibility that tends to pull pipes out of the grommets. Hoping that the rigid threaded connections do not cause a future failure where the fittings are "welded" to the tank if the tanks flex below them with additional weight from contents.
I also believe the shallow tank design may contribute to a problem with solids accumulation under the toilet (not normally "wet" until the tank is maybe 50% full), but have not been able to challenge that theory yet as I drained tanks at every opportunity once leakage was discovered. I would be interested to hear if others have any experience with this issue, for those with floorplans having toilets on the passenger side and presumably have similar tanks that are shallow on that end.
FYI: Had water entering small outside compartment just front of passenger side rear wheels/tires, After going round and round with dealer- they said my toilet was not leaking- turns out it was caused by faulty or cracked flush valve in back of my Thetford toilet. This stopped leaking in compartment and dripping off the underside frame around the black water tank. However still had mushrooming, swelling at base of toilet. I specifically asked the RV repair shop to pull toilet along with troubleshooting flush valve, but the said my toilet wasn't leaking at the floor. Finally got my son, a plumber, to remove Thetford pedestal and ABS rigid floor flange was cracked in 2 places. Apparently need to drop the black tank as part of procedure to R&R the floor flange. Trying to get original dealer where I started with the problem to fix this. Still waiting for "Extended Service Contract/Insurance authorization" to give the go ahead to fix. Good times! Anybody else experience similar problem?
Water leak issue on 2017 Forester MBS Class C
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