We need to know everything rant.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Abe padgett

Gosh : let’s not roast this o boy , we have no ideal his story! There’s always 2 sides to every story. We tend to jump to conclusions without knowing all the facts.

Abe, perhaps you were rushed when reading the first few posts in this thread.

BC's point was exactly what you named: Forest River did NOT HAVE THE FACTS. The customer complained about inverter failures and never told anyone that he was overloading the inverter and bypassing the safety features to do so.

FR did confront the customer about the facts, and he did admit that he had done the hazardous work--apparently because he was afraid to put his tushie on a cold toilet seat.

Larry

[caseymyers]

Keep in mind we are NOT calling the customer stupid.

[rockfordroo]

They used to teach basic electrical wiring in shop class.

Oh, wait; they USED to teach shop class!

[caseymyers]

Boy are we getting way off subject, but you are right, whatever happened to shop class and teaching basic tool skills and such. Sad really we don't do that anymore.

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Boy are we getting way off subject, but you are right, whatever happened to shop class and teaching basic tool skills and such. Sad really we don't do that anymore.

I believe this is one of the reasons we are seeing more and more condominiums being built and the units being purchased by younger people who would have, in earlier times, purchased a house.

It amazes me how many of those younger people who do still buy houses don’t even own a ladder.

I was doing a plumbing service call at the home of a thirty-something couple the other day. All they needed me to do was replace three toilet flappers and unclog one toilet. The reason they called was because the clogged toilet kept overflowing the bowl every few minutes “even though [they weren’t] using the toilet”. The floor was flooded and water was pouring through the ceiling below. It didn’t occur to them to just turn off the water to the toilet. Since the toilet was clogged and the flapper was bad, the toilet would run and overflow the bowl. They swore it had something to do with this abnormally cold weather we are having. I used a closet auger to clear the toilet, but a plunger would have done the trick. They don’t own a plunger — let alone a closet auger.

What was most disturbing to me, though, was the electrician who was in the house at the same time as me, who was there to change recessed lightbulbs. That’s all he was there to do. He had a ladder so he could reach up to that 8’ ceiling in the kitchen. They didn’t. I would have stood on the countertops.

Bruce

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

Boy are we getting way off subject, but you are right, whatever happened to shop class and teaching basic tool skills and such. Sad really we don't do that anymore.

The Education system decided that everyone had to to college and since most administrators never worked a real job, they devalued the shop classes.
I worked with the LA county school district for 5 years and saw how the people in power, looked down at skilled labor occupations.
Since they went directly from college to a teaching career, they never worked a regular job.
They don't seem to realize that many skilled labor jobs, make more money than those with college degrees.

Sorry for the rant but this threads is about rants.[emoji6]

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by nomad297

I believe this is one of the reasons we are seeing more and more condominiums being built and the units being purchased by younger people who would have, in earlier times, purchased a house.

I wasn't allowed to take shop classes after middle school (junior high we called it). "You're in the academic track, not the vocational track." But my parents fixed everything and gave me the confidence to learn the proper way to frame, drywall, plumb, wire, side, and shingle. Never had any trouble with inspectors.

I see this lack of confidence in the young people that share use the neighborhood newsletter. "A burner on the range won't heat--who do I call?" or "The oven doesn't heat--who do I call?" Not "How do I fix it?" I tell them that range-top elements and oven/broiler elements burn out, just like light bulbs and are just as easy to change. They can be ordered from Amazon. And later I found out they called some serviceperson and paid $100 for a service call.

It truly is a different generation (except for my kids). How did we ruin it?

Larry

[bclemens]

I took one of the a last shop classes in middle school..."too many chances for injury" they said

So we have to pass it on ourselves.
Just helped with a class project for my 12 year old son. Had him use a table saw, chop saw, screw gun, nail gun, branding iron, soldering iron, palm sander, square, some wood clamps. Not sure how much of that will stick...but at least he has some semblance that you can do things yourself.

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I took one of the a last shop classes in middle school..."too many chances for injury" they said

So we have to pass it on ourselves.
Just helped with a class project for my 12 year old son. Had him use a table saw, chop saw, screw gun, nail gun, branding iron, soldering iron, palm sander, square, some wood clamps. Not sure how much of that will stick...but at least he has some semblance that you can do things yourself.

If it is in his genes it will stick. Good for you introducing him!

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Just helped with a class project for my 12 year old son. Had him use a table saw, chop saw, screw gun, nail gun, branding iron, soldering iron, palm sander, square, some wood clamps. Not sure how much of that will stick...but at least he has some semblance that you can do things yourself.

I was a Cubmaster for nine years in the late 1980s-early 1990s. One of the Bear projects was to build a toolbox of 1x6s, 1x8s, and a dowel. The design was cleverly done so it didn't matter how ragged the cuts were.

There were a few dads who cut all the pieces on their table saws and drill presses and started all the nails. Kids got beautiful toolboxes and no experience. I gave our Cubs a steel tape measure, a square and a carpenter pencil and showed them how to mark a line with the square, and clamp the board in a vise and cut it with a crosscut handsaw. They started the nails themselves and set them with a nail set. And they bored the holes for the handle, by God, with an auger bit and brace. Yes they were a little rough but the Cubs got confidence that they could fix/build things themselves!

In a few short years my own kids (part of the Cub Pack and now Eagle Scouts) continued on, making guitars with my bandsaw, belt sander, and drill press, fixing cars, wiring, and plumbing. They are now 44 and 42 and maintain their own homes and cars.

After giving them hand tools for gifts every year, this year I gave them each two small kits of hand tools with this admonition: "Keep one kit in each car. Not only will it help you with breakdowns, but when you are at a friend's house and he complains of a leaky pipe, loose door lock, or broken switch, you will be able to help him out on the spot."

Larry

[JohnD10]

When I was in high school the teachers could still give spankings...

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by bclemens

I took one of the a last shop classes in middle school..."too many chances for injury" they said

So we have to pass it on ourselves.
Just helped with a class project for my 12 year old son. Had him use a table saw, chop saw, screw gun, nail gun, branding iron, soldering iron, palm sander, square, some wood clamps. Not sure how much of that will stick...but at least he has some semblance that you can do things yourself.

You are a good dad, keep it up, it will stick and the self confidence will be invaluable. I used to teach young sailors to try anything, telling them that the worst case is you cut the board too short or the piece of window pane too small but the cost of materials is usually insignificant in the money saved and the self satisfaction of knowing you can do the job yourself.

[caseymyers]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

When I was in high school the teachers could still give spankings...

What are you a 100? Sorry, couldn't help myself and yes I'm old enough to remember to!

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

What are you a 100? Sorry, couldn't help myself and yes I'm old enough to remember to!

I'm 65 and we got spankings in junior high school.

[Riverbend]

When I was in public school junior high (which for us was 7-9th grade and I'm 62) a few teachers had big wooden paddles, one of which was aptly named the "Board of Education". Those paddles were more for show, but they did get used occasionally. We also had shop class, which was awesome, and later in high school we had auto mechanics, welding, electronics, more wood shop and even a foundry class. It's a shame that those opportunities pretty much don't exist anymore, and it's also a shame most kids today wouldn't know a protractor from a prolapse.
Our kids as grownups now can do things for themselves, probably because they watched, and helped, us do things for ourselves. Build stuff, fix stuff, plant and grow stuff...

[nomad297]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

How did we ruin it?

There’s not many people who will humbly concede to this as being the real problem, but I do believe it is our (or my) generation that allowed it or caused it. We put a halt to a long stretch of self-sufficiency, independence and ingenuity given and taught to us by “The Geatest Generation” and, in my opinion, ruined it all with the values, or lack thereof, of one single generation — my generation.

I have done my part throughout my life and with my parenting to push back on what has brought our latest generation to where it is now, but the opposition was too great for my efforts, and the efforts of those who were like-minded, to make a global difference. I am proud of my children for not conforming to their generation’s way of life — I hope they can be a part of fixing what I ruined.

Bruce

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by caseymyers

What are you a 100? Sorry, couldn't help myself and yes I'm old enough to remember to!

I'm a youngster...I'll be 59 in July!

[Riverbend]

Cognizance of the fact that times have changed prolifically is definitely a necessary part of this conversation. There's enough truth to the good old days sentiment, but there's also a wealth of new technologies that need technicians and creaters. That doesn't take away from the need for our youth learning timeless skills. The survival bar has been moved. Boy...I could go on and on...but won't!

[tomkatb]

Funny the difference in folks today.

My kids grew up with my wife and I from the DIY world. My son and daughter are the same. They will take on most problems in her home.

At Christmas my daughter had to show me her new compound slide miter saw. And, her 20 volt commercial grade hammer drill. All locked in her tool box.

Her husband has no key to it for a reason. The damage he has done. To himself and the house.

He is from a broken home of helpless folks. They never owned a house. A brilliant Chemical engineer who is not allowed to touch tools.

She trains young Chemical engineers in a plant. It is getting harder. She sometimes makes them cry. They were brought up winning participation trophies.

[Delco Bobby]

I changed a lightbulb in a table lamp once..

Couldn't resist that comment. I totally agree that shop classes should be part of any basic education.

In the 50's were were working with wood and plastic in elementary school. The teacher and principal would probably be thrown in jail today.