Xplorer Package, Residential Refrigerator?

[cvd]

Just starting to shop for a Europa 31. We are looking for a unit with the Xplorer package and the standard residential refrigerator (Xplorer package because we boondock frequently; residential fridge because wife doesn't want to lose the panty).

Question - for those with this combination, how long will those 1000 watts of solar maintain the 600 amp/hr batteries before needing to run the generator?

I know the question is impossible to answered precisely due to solar production variables and usage variables, please give me a ballpark answer from your experiences.

[Aussieguy]

you get (average) 5 hours of good sunshine per day
so 1000w is 5000w of charging over the 5 hours


600ah = 7200w @12v ......... if you drain it completely
so you have a deficit of 2000w per day

you need another 400w or more of panels

That is the theory...
(note numbers are theory too and do not account for losses for panels being flat and Inverter / MPPT usage)
---------------------------------------------------------

in practice using 7200w (600ah) per NIGHT is pretty hard to do.
unless you run the a/c's for cooling
If you want to run a/c then look at swapping them out to models that will draw less current.

8 hours you'll be sleeping

so how in the heck are you draining 600ah in less than 11 hours

have you got some way of measuring ... a shunt at a the battery bank?

a residential 120v will account for a big part of the drain BUT not 600ah?


your solar will stop the battery drain at some point in the morning
and then gradually start charging the battery.....
get up to good charging........... for the 5 or so hours
then go back to just replacing the battery drain as the sun goes down


what you need is a good shunt or other way to measure what your system is actually doing.

[huskerhiker]

I have 540 ah of LiPo and 1200w of solar on my Europa.

My general consumption of power while camping is 200ah to 250ah a day. Most of that is refrigerator. Your mileage may vary depending on behaviors such as running microwave, hair dryers, coffee pots etc. So if I had 0 solar input (cloudy or camping in shade of trees) I can probably go 2 days and change.

While camping in so cal desert in November last year, no clouds, no shade, my recollection is that I was running about a 10% deficit (of total 540ah capacity) in terms of production/consumption over 24hrs. So first morning batteries would be about 70-75%, but then each morning starting point would be about 10% less. During day solar would bring it up but not to 100% (each afternoon charge % would be 10% less previous days end point of total capacity each day). Thats without running generator, So I could probably have gone 5-7 days roughly without needing to run generator before I'd wake up with 0 battery.

If I had 1000w my deficits would be bigger each day and i'd need to run generator sooner. with 60 extra ah you'd have roughly 10% more time before batteries were near 0.

Going to 1400w of solar would probably get me close to balancing me out. i.e. i'd be able to get fully charged before sun goes down each afternoon.
So I agree with the previous comment of needing an extra 400w on the standard 1000w, and this is in near optimal conditions (summer full sun would produce a bit more compared to my November experience).

[Aussieguy]

Originally Posted by huskerhiker

I have 540 ah of LiPo and 1200w of solar on my Europa.

My general consumption of power while camping is 200ah to 250ah a day. Most of that is refrigerator. Your mileage may vary depending on behaviors such as running microwave, hair dryers, coffee pots etc. So if I had 0 solar input (cloudy or camping in shade of trees) I can probably go 2 days and change.

something fishy here
lets assume you getting only 80% efficiency in the solar
80% .... 1200w x 5 x .8 hours a day should give you about......... 4800w

usage 250ah = 3000w
if you cant replace 3000w from a 1200w array you are not even getting 50% efficiency...



I would be
A) inspecting solar connections and wiring connection/lugs
B) seeing if any of your panels are not working
C) check controllers.
D) look at re-calculating your wire sizes too see if they may be too small
E) make sure solar has a fairly direct path to the battery and can't be turned off accidentally


how many and what size solar controllers you got on the 1200w panels
and what size wiring?
from panels to controller
then from controller to battery

wire from controller to battery is critical..
you can only send 14.4v to the battery
so if your wire is too small...... the amps can be restricted
I used 4 awg from battery to controller less than 2 foot long
biggest size I could fit into the controller's connectors... just to be safe
controller sits right next to battery

10awg from roof to the controller (factory installed)
BUT this is carrying 37v @ 20 amps........... so wire size is good

[huskerhiker]

Nothing fishy or anything wrong with my system. Just real world is very different than on paper and your mileage is going to vary a LOT based on conditions.

November in so cal means sun isn’t high. Panels split 50/50 on a slightly curved rv roof means you have some panels with a slight angle into sun but the other half away at any point depending on how you are parked. If I had 1200w on ground angled perfectly at sun it would be more efficient. Again not reality. Spring desert camping I produce more.

I think the base explorer setup is quite good. I think most people will be fine running 2+ days if they could produce nothing out of solar or generator. And with good inverter charger on Europa you don’t need to run generator long to top off.

[png31]

Ideally, the pantry would be retained even if the 12v refrigerator was optioned. I seem to recall Brian Clemons mentioning they were reviewing that possibility. The Norcold 12v refrigerator has thus far met all of our expectations. Our coach is equipped with the Xplorer package. With at least a few hours of good sun exposure, moderate use of lights and tv, and utilizing the “nighttime” feature of the Norcold, our experience is you could essentially run indefinitely. If larger loads, like the microwave, are frequently utilized, running the 8k generator brings the batteries quickly back to full charge.

The desire for the pantry is understandable, but the 31SS has quite a bit of other storage. If your plans include a lot of boondocking, the 12v refrigerator merits consideration.

[AZFoxes]

I agree. Nothing fishy. Our real world experience matches yours except we have 600AH batteries and 1200 watts solar on the roof. Because of low sun angles Nov-Feb in the desert southwest we also deploy a 200 watt portable panel if sunny. If not, we run the generator every 3rd day for a couple of hours to get back to 100%. We’ve camped this way for weeks at a time.

Originally Posted by huskerhiker

Nothing fishy or anything wrong with my system. Just real world is very different than on paper and your mileage is going to vary a LOT based on conditions.

November in so cal means sun isn’t high. Panels split 50/50 on a slightly curved rv roof means you have some panels with a slight angle into sun but the other half away at any point depending on how you are parked. If I had 1200w on ground angled perfectly at sun it would be more efficient. Again not reality. Spring desert camping I produce more.

I think the base explorer setup is quite good. I think most people will be fine running 2+ days if they could produce nothing out of solar or generator. And with good inverter charger on Europa you don’t need to run generator long to top off.

[tomkatb]

We own a 37’ fifth wheel with a gas fridge.

I use a cpap, properly wired into the 12 volt system. 30 ah per day or so.

Our daily usage is about 100 ah daily. We have a small inverter to run the big screen every now and then. No solar. 412 ah of battery. So we can easily go three or four nights before running the generator.

Inverters and residential fridges use a lot of battery.

Unfortunately the output of a 100 watt panel is about 25 ah per day when installed on an rv roof. Weather dependent.

Out west solar is peachy. Not so much in the Midwest.

The goal is to last until the waste tanks are full! I think in many situations your system would.

[malmz]

No calculations here, but we camped 6 days at the So Cal beach a couple weeks ago, half the days with a marine layer, half sunny. Xplorer package with the resi fridge too for the same reason, loosing the pantry for the 12v would have been a no-go for the wife. We only ran the generator when running the microwave or convection oven, then off again, and we never went below 69% capacity on the gauge, and in the sun would to back up quickly. TVs where running a fair amount, sat dish and a/v center on all the time, and we have a single cup Keurig for coffee in the morning. I was impressed, our old Discovery we had to continually monitor power.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by png31

Ideally, the pantry would be retained even if the 12v refrigerator was optioned. I seem to recall Brian Clemons mentioning they were reviewing that possibility. The Norcold 12v refrigerator has thus far met all of our expectations. Our coach is equipped with the Xplorer package. With at least a few hours of good sun exposure, moderate use of lights and tv, and utilizing the “nighttime” feature of the Norcold, our experience is you could essentially run indefinitely. If larger loads, like the microwave, are frequently utilized, running the 8k generator brings the batteries quickly back to full charge.

The desire for the pantry is understandable, but the 31SS has quite a bit of other storage. If your plans include a lot of boondocking, the 12v refrigerator merits consideration.

I presented a design to engineering...my goal is to make the 12V 15 cubic foot fridge standard and keep the pantry...I just need the total width from them. We lose 4.5" going to the Norcold.

[KRedburn]

something to keep in mind regarding solar panels

They only output rated power when the sun is perpendicular to the panel.

Example below is from my home solar panel system an a sunny day.

[malmz]

I am curious what the hard real world 12v system consumption numbers are comparing a straight 12 volt fridge and a resi fridge plus parasitic loss from the inverter. Average conditions of course, I am sure something has been done by refrigerator manufactures or RV design engineers. Advantage percentage or raw numbers.

Either way a compressor is running x amount of time, and modern inverters are fairly efficient. I would think insulations properties are about the same. Is the consumption difference significant or incremental? Thoughts?

[stervin]

[we just picked up our 2024KD 32 Dynamax Europa we chose the option of the compressor refrigerator which was a French door and therefore eliminated the pantry. My wife was not happy, but we feel that with the space between the fridge and the wall to the bedroom we can make something work

In terms of the length we have the thousand watt solar system and it’s advertised to be 27 hours on batteries before it needs to be charged. Explorer package includes two lithium batteries which charge directly by the solar unit of about we love the unit Dynamax makes remarkable product with excellent quality. We’ve been RVing for eight years and been happy with Forest River products I can help you anything. Let me know. Take care and I hope you make the decision QUOTE=cvd;2946941]Just starting to shop for a Europa 31. We are unit with the Xplorer package and the standard residential refrigerator (Xplorer package because we boondock frequently; residential fridge because wife doesn't want to lose the panty).

Question - for those with this combination, how long will those 1000 watts of solar maintain the 600 amp/hr batteries before needing to run the generator?

I know the question is impossible to answered precisely due to solar production variables and usage variables, please give me a ballpark answer from your experiences.[/QUOTE]

[Bill Davis]

Originally Posted by stervin

[we just picked up our 2024KD 32 Dynamax Europa we chose the option of the compressor refrigerator which was a French door and therefore eliminated the pantry. My wife was not happy, but we feel that with the space between the fridge and the wall to the bedroom we can make something work

In terms of the length we have the thousand watt solar system and it’s advertised to be 27 hours on batteries before it needs to be charged. Explorer package includes two lithium batteries which charge directly by the solar unit of about we love the unit Dynamax makes remarkable product with excellent quality. We’ve been RVing for eight years and been happy with Forest River products I can help you anything. Let me know. Take care and I hope you make the decision QUOTE=cvd;2946941]Just starting to shop for a Europa 31. We are unit with the Xplorer package and the standard residential refrigerator (Xplorer package because we boondock frequently; residential fridge because wife doesn't want to lose the panty).

Question - for those with this combination, how long will those 1000 watts of solar maintain the 600 amp/hr batteries before needing to run the generator?

I know the question is impossible to answered precisely due to solar production variables and usage variables, please give me a ballpark answer from your experiences.

[/QUOTE]

I have a propane fridge but this is my experience.
I have 600 amp hours of lithium and 400 watts of solar. This past winter in Florida I was getting enough sun to not have to run the generator at all, except when running the air fryer for an extended time. We do conserve power though. I turn off the inverter when not being used. We turn it on to use the microwave, tv, DWs hair dryer, Keurig coffee maker and so on.

[DW_DX3]

Originally Posted by KRedburn

something to keep in mind regarding solar panels

They only output rated power when the sun is perpendicular to the panel.

Example below is from my home solar panel system an a sunny day.

Attachment 299283

This information cannot be stressed enough. So many people see "1000 watts", but that's just a marketing number based on optimum setup, which an RV install is far from optimum.

The panels are mounted flat, which the only time you can get near that output is with the sun directly overhead at noontime. My experience with the setup is ~825w of output for a fleeting few minutes, and then quickly falls off from there morning and evening. The solar helps, but its not enough that I would ever rely on it as my main power source.

We have the residential fridge, and because of its draw, I went as far as adding two more 600Ah Lithium batteries so I can do the weekend offgrid at our most remote property without needing to run the generator and scare away the feral hogs.

My bigger problem with the fridge is its ability to leak condensate from the small shallow pan when traveling. Its happened enough that I ended up pulling the fridge to put it in a leak pan.