Dealer told me no more ladders on Sabre

[Tonylmiller]

I just got a new 37FLL. It did not come with the ladder installed on the rear of the camper. When I inquired about this, the dealer told me that Forest River will not install them anymore. Even though all of the sales materials still show ladders as being standard. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. I have submitted a question to Forest River about this situation. Basically I told them that they are misrepresenting their product and they should pay to have a ladder installed on my camper

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Tonylmiller

I just got a new 37FLL. It did not come with the ladder installed on the rear of the camper. When I inquired about this, the dealer told me that Forest River will not install them anymore. Even though all of the sales materials still show ladders as being standard. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. I have submitted a question to Forest River about this situation. Basically I told them that they are misrepresenting their product and they should pay to have a ladder installed on my camper

Let us know how that works for you. FR, and just about every other manufacturer reserves the right to change design and accessories at their discretion. Even says so in the fine print somewhere.

Good luck.

FWIW, it will probably just be quicker and cheaper to purchase a ladder and install it yourself rather than messing with any "Legal Muscle".

[Tonylmiller]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Let us know how that works for you. FR, and just about every other manufacturer reserves the right to change design and accessories at their discretion. Even says so in the fine print somewhere.

Good luck.

FWIW, it will probably just be quicker and cheaper to purchase a ladder and install it yourself rather than messing with any "Legal Muscle".

You may be correct, but I'm going to let EVERYONE know about their misleading advertising.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Tonylmiller

You may be correct, but I'm going to let EVERYONE know about their misleading advertising.

Better include every RV manufacturer in that because they all do it.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Better include every RV manufacturer in that because they all do it.

And not just RV manufacturers.

Biggest problem is the sales literature. Changes can be made for a number of reasons AFTER the printing was done. Even if new printings of sales literature are distributed Dealers may not dispose of the old.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Better include every RV manufacturer in that because they all do it.

It's not that they intentionally deceive purchasers. Editing and printing new brochures seem to be low on the priority list because things change so quickly. Now with the shortage of parts (appliances included), there's no way they can keep up with the changes.
The only way you truly know what's on the trailer you purchase is by visual inspection and reading the spec sheet that's shipped with each rv.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

And not just RV manufacturers.

Biggest problem is the sales literature. Changes can be made for a number of reasons AFTER the printing was done. Even if new printings of sales literature are distributed Dealers may not dispose of the old.

The manufacturers shouldn't even be printing sales literature for dealers anymore. In today's day and age, that's such an old and inefficient way to showcase a product in the absence of new models on a dealership lot.

With the 360 virtual tours on manufacturers websites and downloadable brochures, its simply a big waste of money, and we all know they're looking at any way to cut costs. The information in those online brochures can be changed on the fly if they decide to not include something from the original build plans, like a roof ladder. Let the dealerships download and print an updated RV brochure for anyone who comes in to look at and purchase one.

The manufacturers can use those cost savings to put good quality components into their builds and still keep RV prices within their customer's budgets. The better quality parts used would translate to less warranty re-work and even more cost savings. Most importantly, it would mean very satisfied customers with brand loyalty when it comes to future purchases.

....Just my two cents worth

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Tonylmiller

I just got a new 37FLL. It did not come with the ladder installed on the rear of the camper. When I inquired about this, the dealer told me that Forest River will not install them anymore. Even though all of the sales materials still show ladders as being standard. Needless to say, I am not a happy camper. I have submitted a question to Forest River about this situation. Basically I told them that they are misrepresenting their product and they should pay to have a ladder installed on my camper

Don't know about everyone else's opinion, but I'd rather NOT have a roof ladder on my RV. Although I've had one on almost all of my previous RV's, I've only used it on my first 5'er, but never used since on the others for two reasons.

First, I'm not a small guy and going up and down on those small, light weight and narrow ladders could mean a bad fall for me and not worth it. I have a telescopic ladder that supports up to 300lbs and is so much more stable for me when going up an down from the roof. I store it under the RV bed.

Second, I had significant water damage in two walls of my first 5'er that was from the installed ladder I used to access the roof. I think the less holes in the roof and back side wall, the better in keeping potential water intrusion points to a minimum.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

Don't know about everyone else's opinion, but I'd rather NOT have a roof ladder on my RV. Although I've had one on almost all of my previous RV's, I've only used it on my first 5'er, but never used since on the others for two reasons.

First, I'm not a small guy and going up and down on those small, light weight and narrow ladders could mean a bad fall for me and not worth it. I have a telescopic ladder that supports up to 300lbs and is so much more stable for me when going up an down from the roof. I store it under the RV bed.

Second, I had significant water damage in two walls of my first 5'er that was from the installed ladder I used to access the roof. I think the less holes in the roof and back side wall, the better in keeping potential water intrusion points to a minimum.

Your 'Second' reason of 'damage' is explained by your 'First' reason (300lbs) for not using/having a ladder. Should you even be on top of your unit?

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Brother Les

Your 'Second' reason of 'damage' is explained by your 'First' reason (300lbs) for not using/having a ladder. Should you even be on top of your unit?

I'm 6'3" and 235lbs. Not overweight by any means and in good shape, but I'm still larger than your average bear. I'm on my roof at least twice per year for inspection and removing debris, but the telescopic ladder I use is wider and more stable to climb than a roof ladder for me.

[Brother Les]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

I'm 6'3" and 235lbs. Not overweight by any means and in good shape, but I'm still larger than your average bear. I'm on my roof at least twice per year for inspection and removing debris, but the telescopic ladder I use is wider and more stable to climb than a roof ladder for me.

I miss read your statement. I thought that you said that you were 300lbs. My bad, I am sorry. I can not seem to read or think this morning. I am way lower in weight that you just posted and I am very nervous about walking around on top of my unit. I have a ladder and am glad that it is there, but I do not like climbing up and down on it.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Brother Les

I miss read your statement. I thought that you said that you were 300lbs. My bad, I am sorry. I can not seem to read or think this morning. I am way lower in weight that you just posted and I am very nervous about walking around on top of my unit. I have a ladder and am glad that it is there, but I do not like climbing up and down on it.

Hey man, no worries! I thank the good Lord I'm not that heavy! I wouldn't be trying to navigate an RV roof if I was, for sure.

But, yeah, I totally agree with you that I'm not that comfortable walking on top of my unit either. All it takes is one slip and fall from 14ft up and possibly, game over. Heard of it happening to good folks like you and me all the time.

My first 5'er was an '06 Jayco and was the best built RV I owned. All the others I've had since aren't anywhere near as well built. I think the Jayco ladder had a weight restriction of 225lbs or something like that, which I discovered after using it, getting water damage, then verifying those specs.

With my new Sabre, I haven't been able to find anything yet on how much weight the roof ladder will support. The RV Tech who did my PDI had no idea the max weight it supports. So, in lieu of that, I'm just sticking with the tried and true standard ladder to access my roof.

[SlowrideHD]

I was under the rear of my camper, hooking up a wire harness for lights on the cargo carrier that I built. I couldn't believe that my ladder was just attached by a few screws going through the rear cap plastic. Not even any backing wood or support for the screws.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by SlowrideHD

I was under the rear of my camper, hooking up a wire harness for lights on the cargo carrier that I built. I couldn't believe that my ladder was just attached by a few screws going through the rear cap plastic. Not even any backing wood or support for the screws.

Wow!.....but not entirely surprised. Too dangerous for me to climb on.

[GPs37FLH]

So for anyone wishing to know, you should find a label somewhere on the roof ladder with the weight limit. I checked mine a few months ago, but couldn't find one. Upon closer inspection this morning, one is under the bottom rung of my ladder. 250lbs max.

I was surprised to discover the following information concerning ladder manufacturers labeling requirements: "The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) ladder standards do not require manufacturers to label ladders with instructions and warnings. Manufacturers of ladders attach the labels to provide information for safe use, and to protect themselves in liability action from any misuse of the ladder."

However, according to OSHA requirements, "Each step or rung of a fixed ladder must be able to support a load of at least 250 pounds (114 kg) applied in the middle of the step or rung. Minimum clear distance between the sides of individual rung/step ladders and between the side rails of other fixed ladders must be 16 inches (41 cm)."

[Roddor]

One one of my previous FR motorhomes (2018) I saw the buildsheet actually had a "ladder delete" option on it, and no ladder. So it would seem ladders are more common than not if it requires a delete option.

[mtn_matt]

There's a pessimist in me that is quite surprised that manufacturers still provide ladders at all, even on a few models. The reason being, it opens the door for a fall lawsuit. It sounds crazy that someone would sue because they fell off a roof, but I work in the boating industry and have seen manufacturers lose suits against them for death or dismemberment despite the accident being blatantly improper use of product. It's a new reality of liability that manufacturers face.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by mtn_matt

There's a pessimist in me that is quite surprised that manufacturers still provide ladders at all, even on a few models. The reason being, it opens the door for a fall lawsuit. It sounds crazy that someone would sue because they fell off a roof, but I work in the boating industry and have seen manufacturers lose suits against them for death or dismemberment despite the accident being blatantly improper use of product. It's a new reality of liability that manufacturers face.

Then they run the risk of people suing them for their roof leaking because they didn't climb up there to check it like they are supposed to.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't...

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by GPs37FLH

The manufacturers shouldn't even be printing sales literature for dealers anymore. In today's day and age, that's such an old and inefficient way to showcase a product in the absence of new models on a dealership lot.

With the 360 virtual tours on manufacturers websites and downloadable brochures, its simply a big waste of money, and we all know they're looking at any way to cut costs. The information in those online brochures can be changed on the fly if they decide to not include something from the original build plans, like a roof ladder. Let the dealerships download and print an updated RV brochure for anyone who comes in to look at and purchase one.

The manufacturers can use those cost savings to put good quality components into their builds and still keep RV prices within their customer's budgets. The better quality parts used would translate to less warranty re-work and even more cost savings. Most importantly, it would mean very satisfied customers with brand loyalty when it comes to future purchases.

....Just my two cents worth

All true how online information is usually available and more current.

There are still enough "Luddites" left that insist on a printed brochure with pictures they can share with their friends without having to "log in".

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by mtn_matt

There's a pessimist in me that is quite surprised that manufacturers still provide ladders at all, even on a few models. The reason being, it opens the door for a fall lawsuit. It sounds crazy that someone would sue because they fell off a roof, but I work in the boating industry and have seen manufacturers lose suits against them for death or dismemberment despite the accident being blatantly improper use of product. It's a new reality of liability that manufacturers face.

Can't count the times I've been injured due to my own stupidity. Fortunately only causing physical discomfort. but never has the thought passed through my mind i should retain a lawyer to make someone else pay for my dumb actions.

It amazes me how people think that their misuse of a product is the manufacturer's fault.

We have a local radio talk show host that has a segment on his show called 'Signs the End is Near". He reads from news reports of cases where people do stupid things with disastrous results. Sad, but entertaining to a point.