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Old 03-03-2014, 09:29 AM   #321
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Platokid I'm really not trying to be a FR fan here and not wanting to argue someone else's problems. What issue are you having with your 5th wheel? Is it a Saber? I think that FR deserves a bit of a black eye for not getting the OP unit fixed correctly. We all get that and I think they do also. Is it to much to ask that the discourse fair?
I concur.......

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Old 03-03-2014, 10:07 AM   #322
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Im all in for fair! You have your option others have theres.
Didnt know i had to have a sabre or a 5ver. But to call other folks options bitching as well? Imo isnt right either.


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Old 03-03-2014, 10:13 AM   #323
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Platokid I'm really not trying to be a FR fan here and not wanting to argue someone else's problems. What issue are you having with your 5th wheel? Is it a Saber? I think that FR deserves a bit of a black eye for not getting the OP unit fixed correctly. We all get that and I think they do also. Is it to much to ask that the discourse fair?
X2 Step it up. My opinion is the dealer(if applicable here) should have handled it and FORCED the manufacturer to HANDLE the return. What ever happened to customer service. JMHO
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Old 03-03-2014, 10:55 AM   #324
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Maybe the folks that build or fix the units look at it differently. Its a job I need my check / I dont give a crap attitude / no pride / I just want to get home to play XBOX / the company sucks and dont pay well / screw it let the dealer take care of it. Its not my job. All the time management try to figure out how to make it right without loosing there shorts.
Oh its tour time...everyone you know the drill. Its tough to get good help!
Certainly there not constantly good at what they do! Shameful to see this kind of workmanship. Made in America should count for something!! The rv industry needs a big kick in the ass!!
Hope this all works out for you guys!!!! Shame on Sabre for the crap you gone threw with this pos!

Again I don't want to argue about someone else's issues. If the bitching comment was offensive I apologize to all. I have no desire to offend anyone but I do feel that posts like this one are not fair to FR or their employees. I have been to the diesel division factory several times and can assure you that they are hard working honest people that have pride in the job they do. That is all I can base my opinion on.



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Old 03-03-2014, 11:01 AM   #325
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I dont see any pride in workmanship in the pics posted evident. Do you?
Think we can agree to disagree . I respect your option. Nor do i see it in there effort to fix it at the factory the first time. Guess my bar is just set too high.

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Old 03-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #326
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I see issues in the pictures that should have been fixed. I don't see a reason to disparage the employees of a entire company based on those pictures. I know that I have made some mistakes in my career that looking back are hard to believe. Again are you happy with your unit. I'm happy with mine. Now if the OP and the other three or four on this thread can get resolution we can all be happy.



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Old 03-03-2014, 11:29 AM   #327
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Those hard working people were probably told how to fix the issues. I doubt that the management did not know how they were fixed. if they had no idea what the employees did to fix the issues, than that is very bad management indeed.

I also met hard working employees at the factory where my trailer was produced. But when they saw my trailer, the ones who were responsible to fix the issue flipped, and said loudly, how the hell did this trailer leave this factory. Yup same employees, they all work hard and I have no reason to doubt their honesty. Yet, they also built my trailer.

People make mistakes, they get lazy, that is understood. But the higher ups giving the run around to a customer, that is unacceptable. They wanted a cheap solution, wanted them out of the factory, and got the honest employees probably to fix it that way against their protest.

How they are handling this is reprehensible ! This is a customer satisfaction issue, and has nothing to do with the employees. It is all about management and their profit numbers and trying to wash their hands off a trailer which was not build properly with no regard to customer satisfaction.

And yes, some of us might be ok with that, some of us are not. I fail to see what actions of FR are being defended to be honest.

And I will add, the first company who can consistently produce a travel trailer at a certain quality level will be a big winner. Quality Assurance systems are not a joke, but I do not see any of the manufacturers claiming that their production complies with one of the existing systems.
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Old 03-03-2014, 11:31 AM   #328
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I've pondered your point myself, Evereddie. I've even searched this forum, trying to find an instance where someone actually got a new unit in exchange for a true lemon.

Didn't find it. You're definitely on point about setting precedent.

I've also researched, not just on this forum, information about Flagstaff's factory facilities and read that they do not do repair in the same building production is done, that they have a separate facility for repairs. Are the employees of that repair facility properly trained to analyze, diagnose and repair the product? That I do not know.
Not true,our (Flagstaff V-Lite) was repaired in the same Bld. where the (New) units were being made. I was (Right There) during the entire repair (5)hrs. Here are Pics. They were (Senior) employees who had LOTS of knowledge on RV repair! Youroo!!
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:11 PM   #329
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Who said it was getting sold to anybody?

Pretty big assumption on anybody's part really.

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It is not a big assumption at all. The OP said that Forest River would not take the unit back to their factory to fix correctly. the OP said that Forest River was 'looking' for a Dealer to take the unit and were having trouble to take it. Why are Forest River looking here and yonder for a Dealer to take this unit if Forest River would then turn around and take it back to their factory. If it was fixed correctly, I am sure that the OP would have kept the unit. Forest River is by their actions is implying that the cost of fixing it correctly is so much higher than the cost of pushing it off on a Dealer to dispose of. Dispose of.....

Put a sign on it..... AS IS.... no warranty..... no returns.....

Assumption..... I would assume that I am not very far off.... the bottom bottom line is that this is a business and if the business can not fix their mistakes correctly, the business wants them to go away a quickly as possible. Everyone all the way around (the OP and Forest River) have lost a great deal because of this unit being put together sub-par. Forest River in the long run by their actions so far is not resolving this to the best regard for their customer(s) but for their bottom line. This issue will be forgotten in a couple of months by most (if a decent camper comes out of this), but some it will impact for years. Dealer will not point out the flaws of this Sabre, they want to get it off their inventory. It is the next consumer that will have live with the flaws of this unit that were never fixed by Forest River. Some one will buy it and they will have to live with the flaws of it and none of you will ever hear about it. And you will say that all is well with the world......
Baloney.....

The problem is still the same, just passed on to some unsuspecting buyer.

Assume.... I see no reason to not assume that.....
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Old 03-03-2014, 01:55 PM   #330
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I see issues in the pictures that should have been fixed. I don't see a reason to disparage the employees of a entire company based on those pictures. I know that I have made some mistakes in my career that looking back are hard to believe. Again are you happy with your unit. I'm happy with mine. Now if the OP and the other three or four on this thread can get resolution we can all be happy.
Good point!*
*Someone really screwed up not once but twice or was it a team effort? Never said the entire company was bad apples sometimes it could be a few. If management shoved this threw even worse. I know first hand what some of the work force problems can be like.
Being a Plant Manager myself I guess I was trying to find a good reason for a major meltdown in workmanship and quality.
I know my quality bar is set way to high for the rv industry I guess.
But If my guys turned out product like that x2 you can bet they be in the doghouse! And you can bet we would be kissing that customers butt trying to make it right and it wouldn't take months.
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Old 03-03-2014, 02:51 PM   #331
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Those hard working people were probably told how to fix the issues. I doubt that the management did not know how they were fixed. if they had no idea what the employees did to fix the issues, than that is very bad management indeed.

I also met hard working employees at the factory where my trailer was produced. But when they saw my trailer, the ones who were responsible to fix the issue flipped, and said loudly, how the hell did this trailer leave this factory. Yup same employees, they all work hard and I have no reason to doubt their honesty. Yet, they also built my trailer.

People make mistakes, they get lazy, that is understood. But the higher ups giving the run around to a customer, that is unacceptable. They wanted a cheap solution, wanted them out of the factory, and got the honest employees probably to fix it that way against their protest.

How they are handling this is reprehensible ! This is a customer satisfaction issue, and has nothing to do with the employees. It is all about management and their profit numbers and trying to wash their hands off a trailer which was not build properly with no regard to customer satisfaction.

And yes, some of us might be ok with that, some of us are not. I fail to see what actions of FR are being defended to be honest.

And I will add, the first company who can consistently produce a travel trailer at a certain quality level will be a big winner. Quality Assurance systems are not a joke, but I do not see any of the manufacturers claiming that their production complies with one of the existing systems.

I totally agree with this. I know for a fact that my camper had zero management influence. The management had no idea that there were problems with the fit of the new sidewall. I spoke to the worker that did the replacement on my sidewall and his words were it was a bitch and the manager was with me when he stated this. I asked for progress reports from the managers during our repairs and had zero replies. This is just my assumption and my assumption only that there was zero management involved. The workers had a work order from management and did what they were told.
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:08 PM   #332
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Ok im gonna say it.
Im tired of hearing everybody gripe on here. I dont think another thing really needs to be said, other than the eventual outcome.
This griping has done nothing but make some people look trivial and small, and shame on some of you for egging the situation on and having nothing constructive or uplifting to say.

Im not the only one that feels this way either!!!
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:24 PM   #333
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Old 03-03-2014, 05:51 PM   #334
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I have followed this and Doug's thread very closely. My camper sat at my dealer's lot for over a month before FR had it picked up to head back to the factory last week. I am not happy with the lack of communication and things not happening when it was said they would happen. I don't post on every thread that comes up to show my presence or have relevance on the forum. I advocated for Sabre/FR with my purchase as did most of us, and feel that from that point, they have to earn/maintain it regardless of the price I paid for their product, and basic craftsmanship, quality and customer service are not too much to ask. I know that Doug and the Browns did not wish themselves to be our examples, and the way Sabre/FR has treated them is just as important to me as the way that they treat me, as far as my brand loyalty and future purchases. The fact that there are thousands of satisfied owners that have been taken care of, is absolutely no reason to overlook the ones that FR didn't take care of, or took through HELL to have it happen, but actually more of a reason to look at FR and have them answer why they, with all of their success, would make it such a hassle for these families to be made whole, and yes I understand that Doug is happy. What's with the whole "well they took care of me" attitude? Why is it acceptable to have these things drag out and customers have to go to the plant to PDI their units prior to them being returned? The happy owners (MYSELF INCLUDED- I think) are the people that should be calling and writing Sabre/FR and voicing there displeasure and disappointment with what's going on. We're our own, and each other's advocates, and the power is in numbers. There's no reason to doubt, question, or otherwise single out the "FEW" that have such CLEAR issues, none of us want to have to go at FR alone. All of the HAPPY owners are surely just a random unit off the line from having been the AFFECTED owner, and would be remiss to think that this couldn't be their situation. There's no "gray area" with the Browns' unit. Whatever the issue is, it's Sabre/FR's and why haven't they put things to rest with the Brown's and moved on to resolve things internally without bringing more attention to themselves. FR doesn't deserve further patience and understanding, they are not the affected, yet they're holding the Browns hostage. They choose their vendors, employees, management, etc., and in so doing, assume the responsibility for the final product as much so as they reap the rewards/profits for it. Who cares what happens to the POS unit, the Brown's paid for the same level of happiness with their unit as the rest of us? TRUE character is CONSISTENT, that's what makes it character. FR is showing theirs and having it called into question. TRUE good character would take the POS unit back, tear it down, repair/refurbish it, and sell it as such...DEAL WITH YOUR OWN PROBLEM SABRE/FR. Looking at the timeframe and seriousness of the Browns and Doug's units being sent out of the same facility, what does this really say as a rate of success and quality. These are "WARRANTY" repairs, which are just that....SECOND CHANCES to get it right and show good faith. Within this short timeframe, there were 2 major drops of the ball (that we're aware of), and do any of us think that there were over 20 units serviced/repaired during the timeframe??? It's an assumption, but I would bet 20 is a lofty number, and at 20, 2 would be 10% comebacks. Regardless of why, that's unacceptable even if they serviced 50 and it were 4%, and the time that the Browns have been dealing with this is too!!! I wish the Brown's the best, and I wish the rest of us could RALLY behind them! If none of us defends Sabre/FR, they'll be okay......can you say the same for the Browns?....what if it were you?
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:00 PM   #335
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Again I don't want to argue about someone else's issues. If the bitching comment was offensive I apologize to all. I have no desire to offend anyone but I do feel that posts like this one are not fair to FR or their employees. I have been to the diesel division factory several times and can assure you that they are hard working honest people that have pride in the job they do. That is all I can base my opinion on.
I'll say this much, and I'm done with your comments;

You made a snide remark about those posting on this thread "owning nice 2014 rigs". Well, Sir, would you like to trade my "nice 2014 rig" for that 2011 Berkshire rig you own?

Condescending much?
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:07 PM   #336
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Not true,our (Flagstaff V-Lite) was repaired in the same Bld. where the (New) units were being made. I was (Right There) during the entire repair (5)hrs. Here are Pics. They were (Senior) employees who had LOTS of knowledge on RV repair! Youroo!!
YouRoo,

I found a blog by a gentleman who toured the Flagstaff factory, and he stated the facitily for repairs is a separate building. I'm not sure what the date of that blog was, so things may have changed since your were there, or before he was there.

If I can find that blog again I'll post a link.
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:09 PM   #337
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Turbs you just said it all. Bsahing get's people nowhere. Sorry to hear about the problems. But I do not hear the whole story even reading this whole thread, I here one side and see it. I have never been screwed by FR, they even went out of the way to help me. I don't know what happened but I'm tired of people saying how bad FR is. I'm sorry for the op troubles and I do believe him and the trouble they have had, But this bashing has to stop some where. I have never heard in 10 years and 3 FR trailers that at one point things where not taken care of by FR. This is a first for me. Would I buy another FR brand you bet. Things and communication falls apart. Will this lower Sabers Rep. Give me a break. Once again I'm sorry this person went through this but it happens even buying a new house and I sure don't want to get into that. The pictures and words are proof, lets hope as always that FR will step up. The only longer thread I have seen is that funning name group, but that's a social group. In the end I'm sure things will work out for them through FR. ........ Once again sorry for your heartack. but hold the faith FR has always come through....
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:13 PM   #338
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I am wondering if the dealer came up with an offer.

I am done with pointing out what I think FR should have done ...
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:17 PM   #339
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I have followed this and Doug's thread very closely. My camper sat at my dealer's lot for over a month before FR had it picked up to head back to the factory last week. I am not happy with the lack of communication and things not happening when it was said they would happen. I don't post on every thread that comes up to show my presence or have relevance on the forum. I advocated for Sabre/FR with my purchase as did most of us, and feel that from that point, they have to earn/maintain it regardless of the price I paid for their product, and basic craftsmanship, quality and customer service are not too much to ask. I know that Doug and the Browns did not wish themselves to be our examples, and the way Sabre/FR has treated them is just as important to me as the way that they treat me, as far as my brand loyalty and future purchases. The fact that there are thousands of satisfied owners that have been taken care of, is absolutely no reason to overlook the ones that FR didn't take care of, or took through HELL to have it happen, but actually more of a reason to look at FR and have them answer why they, with all of their success, would make it such a hassle for these families to be made whole, and yes I understand that Doug is happy. What's with the whole "well they took care of me" attitude? Why is it acceptable to have these things drag out and customers have to go to the plant to PDI their units prior to them being returned? The happy owners (MYSELF INCLUDED- I think) are the people that should be calling and writing Sabre/FR and voicing there displeasure and disappointment with what's going on. We're our own, and each other's advocates, and the power is in numbers. There's no reason to doubt, question, or otherwise single out the "FEW" that have such CLEAR issues, none of us want to have to go at FR alone. All of the HAPPY owners are surely just a random unit off the line from having been the AFFECTED owner, and would be remiss to think that this couldn't be their situation. There's no "gray area" with the Browns' unit. Whatever the issue is, it's Sabre/FR's and why haven't they put things to rest with the Brown's and moved on to resolve things internally without bringing more attention to themselves. FR doesn't deserve further patience and understanding, they are not the affected, yet they're holding the Browns hostage. They choose their vendors, employees, management, etc., and in so doing, assume the responsibility for the final product as much so as they reap the rewards/profits for it. Who cares what happens to the POS unit, the Brown's paid for the same level of happiness with their unit as the rest of us? TRUE character is CONSISTENT, that's what makes it character. FR is showing theirs and having it called into question. TRUE good character would take the POS unit back, tear it down, repair/refurbish it, and sell it as such...DEAL WITH YOUR OWN PROBLEM SABRE/FR. Looking at the timeframe and seriousness of the Browns and Doug's units being sent out of the same facility, what does this really say as a rate of success and quality. These are "WARRANTY" repairs, which are just that....SECOND CHANCES to get it right and show good faith. Within this short timeframe, there were 2 major drops of the ball (that we're aware of), and do any of us think that there were over 20 units serviced/repaired during the timeframe??? It's an assumption, but I would bet 20 is a lofty number, and at 20, 2 would be 10% comebacks. Regardless of why, that's unacceptable even if they serviced 50 and it were 4%, and the time that the Browns have been dealing with this is too!!! I wish the Brown's the best, and I wish the rest of us could RALLY behind them! If none of us defends Sabre/FR, they'll be okay......can you say the same for the Browns?....what if it were you?
X ELEVENTY! And APPLAUSE!

The fact that some of us showing support for the Browns on this thread "own nice 2014 rigs" does *not* negate the fact that we ALL own FOREST RIVER products and it affects us ALL!

Those of us who "own nice 2014 rigs" could be only one trip away from something on our rigs experiencing a MAJOR failure. I'd hate to know that *IF* DH and I end up like the Browns with our "nice 2014 rig" that we'd be left out there twisting in the wind by the other members of this forum. We'd want support the same as the Browns do, and deservedly so.

And for the record; The Browns started out with what they *thought* was a "nice 2014 rig".
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Old 03-03-2014, 06:22 PM   #340
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This used to be such a friendly and informative place to visit. Wow.
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