2401W ownership experience

[namusmc]

Very informative, Wayne.


I also wondered about whether the DEF system would be a pain. That will be one more thing to worry about. I agree that an emergency DEF problem shouldn't immobilize the vehicle because of an environmental issue. Hopefully, someone will come up with a temporary hack to get around that one.


Good to know about the tire valve extenders you replaced and the source used. Being tire pressure obsessed, I plan on adding a TPMS if it doesn't come equipped with that (or does it?)


Some folks mentioned installing rear spring helpers but given your positive experience with the factory installed Hellwig sway bar, I will wait till I drive it myself before deciding what suspension improvements are needed.


Since there is no such thing as a perfect new motorhome, I am hoping that the rig shows up with as few warts as is possible but am trying to be realistic about it. Coming from an older class B, I am looking forward to the spaciousness of the W. Thanks again for your input.

[Phinias]

I have a 2015 Solera 24 R, Similar. I see you traded a Class B, so did I. I drove a Pleasure Way 100,000 mikes without putting it in the shop except for scheduled maintenance. From my experience, i made a huge mistake. My pleasure way was a 2001 Dodge 3500 super van, 360 Chrysler, 16 MPG. It had every thing the big boys except space. but, what the hell we're supposed to be camping The point is i was never once concerned that we would not depart on schedule and that it wouldn't break down a 2: 00 in the morning going over Loveland pass.

Don't get me wrong. i love my Solera. I do question the price of ownership, That is paid with my lack of peace of mind.

Class B rules!!!!

[RedLdr1]

Originally Posted by namusmc

Good to know about the tire valve extenders you replaced and the source used. Being tire pressure obsessed, I plan on adding a TPMS if it doesn't come equipped with that (or does it?)

It could if FR would order the chassis from M-B with the TPMS option but they do not currently do so... You will need to add one. I went with a TST system I ordered from Great RV Products.

Originally Posted by namusmc

Some folks mentioned installing rear spring helpers but given your positive experience with the factory installed Hellwig sway bar, I will wait till I drive it myself before deciding what suspension improvements are needed.

I will be upgrading the OEM shocks and will likely eventually go with the Sumo upgrade. But I'm not in a hurry yet as most of my current driving isn't curvy mountain roads. The MBS is quite pleasant to drive "as is" for me.

[namusmc]

My new rig hasn't even been delivered yet and I'm already looking at some upgrades I will need. Guess I won't be putting my credit card away any time soon 😊

[RedLdr1]

Originally Posted by namusmc

My new rig hasn't even been delivered yet and I'm already looking at some upgrades I will need. Guess I won't be putting my credit card away any time soon 😊

I told my wife to expect to spend around $3-5K in upgrades... She has been doing a fine job running that number up! She really like having the "W"...

[Joshua Cavitt]

Keep the comments coming! We need to see the likes and dislikes so we know what we can improve on.

[bclemens]

^^I Dislike this enthusiastic post^^

[RedLdr1]

Originally Posted by Joshua Cavitt

Keep the comments coming! We need to see the likes and dislikes so we know what we can improve on.

Major Dislike Coming :

The M-B Sprinter Cab Chassis can be equipped much better than the "stripper" chassis Forest River is ordering. I'm already paying a premium price to have a M-B, spending a few bucks more to have a nice Sprinter wouldn't be a big issue.

The Base Price for a 3500 Cab Chassis is $36,585 MSRP. That is a Zero option build on the M-B website. I don't know what the MSRP is on the current standard FR build but it can't be much above that number. Fully optioned, I checked almost every block available, the price is $43,351 MSRP. The difference is $6,766. Your current build falls somewhere in between those two numbers so the price isn't going up the full $6,766 even if you did add it all!

I have attached the .pdf of a quick build I did on the M-B website to illustrate the difference. And I wouldn't want all of the options I clicked, this is just to illustrate how minimal the price change would be at a "W" MSRP.

To me options like a TPMS are a safety item. Upgraded lighting, to the HID system, are a safety item. Additional Air Bags are a safety item. Quit making me spend money upgrading a new coach to safety standards that have been out for years in cheap cars!

I fully realize you have to stay price competitive, however.... Offering a basic chassis package, today's "stripper", and an "upgraded" package with a decent mix of options should not be that difficult to produce. Yes, it is an additional inventory item, and Yes, now you have to order two configurations from M-B. I would think you would do that now for the DynaMax Isata 3 anyway to compete at that coach market's price point.

Your competitors are ordering a better equipped chassis than FR. And they don't hesitate to tell potential customers how much safer and better their MBS build is compared to FR. If we had stayed with a "R" style floor plan I wouldn't be here... There are nicer options that aren't that much more expensive.

So how about a FR Customer Survey asking us what options we want in our chassis? Let the Owners tell you what we would be willing to pay for to create a "upgraded" chassis package.

Happy now Josh? Brian may be coming over to see you later I suspect!

As always thanks for paying attention to your customer's reviews and hanging out here to see what we think!

[bclemens]

1. I would say what competitors? Leisure Travel and Pleasureway certainly load up their Sprinter and they are also about $30k more.

2.Stocking more than one Sprinter seems simple...its not as simple as it seems. When you have (3) divisions sharing a pool of Sprinters we're able to swap chassis. Increase and lower production as needed as we share risk and sales fluctuation.

3. If we do an "upgrade" sprinter. What upgrades do we take? Unless we take them all, there always seems to be one person that wants this other option.

4. Assuming we figure the options out (and I do think a basic set is do-able). How many do you get? What percentage of chassis do you commit to? When we build as a company 3000 Sprinters, a small miscalculation in "upgrade versions" means we have older version of one or the other on hand that need to be used up and could potentially be out of the other. If we could get them at will its one thing...when we have to commit 3-4 months in advance its another.

Real world example: I worked for another mfg that offered a chassis with power seat and without because "everyone" asked for power seats. Until of course people did not want to pay for power seats or dealers decided not to stock the more expensive one. So what happened is they ended up with too many power seat units and not enough regular. So they had to use the power seat versions and discount the price on the unit to the dealers...because they didn't order the power seat option

Now, having said all that. We do meet and discuss the chassis specs and I will certainly bring that up. There are a couple that I would like to see added.

[HomeOnWheels]

For chassis, I would definitely pay to have airbags. Other options are nice to have but not necessary for me. I'm overall happy with the chassis as is.

Like I said, my biggest dislikes are not features but rather quality issues below that can definitely be improved by FR:

grey tank valve did not close
black tank valve cable broke
lost awning channel cover
crown molding became loose at several places because glue or nail gun was used
electric step stopped working
vinyl liners outside front cabin became loose
curtis controller for brake lights stopped working
pump stopped working properly now water fills portable tank when only connected to city water

[bclemens]

Chassis has airbags. Do you mean more airbags? One thing to consider...the Sprinter seats are cloth and we recover them in leather. If you want side curtain airbags that deploy from the seat (like the Dodge Promaster) You can no longer recover the seats...at least no place around here will touch them.

[HomeOnWheels]

Originally Posted by bclemens

Chassis has airbags. Do you mean more airbags? One thing to consider...the Sprinter seats are cloth and we recover them in leather. If you want side curtain airbags that deploy from the seat (like the Dodge Promaster) You can no longer recover the seats...at least no place around here will touch them.

Air Bag - Front Thorax Driver, Co-Driver $365

[Ron, Debra & Foxy]

I bought a used 2010 Solera and yes, we love it! Let someone else take the depreciation, put on new tires, replaced batteries so far, and a couple of owner-operator error repairs...
There have been many things to learn, and more still - but really enjoy jour house on wheels that gets an average of 15 mpg. No DEF system in my model year.

[bclemens]

Originally Posted by HomeOnWheels

Air Bag - Front Thorax Driver, Co-Driver $365

I'd have to confirm but most Thorax air bags deploy from the seat.

[CharSolera]

Bclemens, I have a 2014 24S Solera. The main MBS feature I had hoped for with my unit was the TPMS. I added one after market. I like the seat covers -- easy to keep clean. I've upgraded the with a Helwig antisway, Bilstein shocks and Sumo springs to improve the driving experience. The newer models come with the Helwig, and I think that's a good thing. I wish the other items would have been an option. Upgrades are always going to require balance, but I appreciate your willingness to hear about our owner 'wishes!'. I really like my Solera.

[RedLdr1]

Originally Posted by bclemens

1. I would say what competitors? Leisure Travel and Pleasureway certainly load up their Sprinter and they are also about $30k more.

Add Thor (Class C), Airstream (Class B) and the new Jayco MBS Class C. The Thor was more expensive, the Jayco was cheaper than a comparable FR "R" floor plan.

Originally Posted by bclemens

2.Stocking more than one Sprinter seems simple...its not as simple as it seems. When you have (3) divisions sharing a pool of Sprinters we're able to swap chassis. Increase and lower production as needed as we share risk and sales fluctuation.

Agreed, but... Is the cost of creating a "upgraded" chassis option, or just upgrading all of them, costing you sales? Would a roughly 3-4% of MSRP option be that unpopular? Is it a deal breaker on a vehicle with a MSRP over $100,000K? Heck, I bought the diesel generator option for that cost! Safety "sells" and things like the TPMS, lighting, and airbags are major safety items.

We really like our "W", and FR, this is our fourth FR product. But if we had not saw the "W" floor plan, and stayed with a "R" style, I wouldn't be here having this conversation. Yes, the chassis features would have driven us in to a Thor product... Now I'll probably get "Moderated" for speaking heresy...

Originally Posted by bclemens

3. If we do an "upgrade" sprinter. What upgrades do we take? Unless we take them all, there always seems to be one person that wants this other option.

You will never satisfy everyone... But right now you are not offering me any choice at all on a product with a MSRP over $100,000.

Do a owner survey and see what owners want. Then take the top 5-10 items, that add approximately $3-4K to the cost, and make it the "upgrade" package! I used a similar methodology with my customers. I received great responses, that made my products better, plus my customers felt they were being included in the products direction.

You guys did a great job listening to MBS owners and adding the Hellwig sway bar to the MBS. Well most of us are adding a TPMS unit that are a PITA aftermarket add-on. That is a hint we'd like the OEM TPMS...

Originally Posted by bclemens

4. Assuming we figure the options out (and I do think a basic set is do-able). How many do you get? What percentage of chassis do you commit to? When we build as a company 3000 Sprinters, a small miscalculation in "upgrade versions" means we have older version of one or the other on hand that need to be used up and could potentially be out of the other. If we could get them at will its one thing...when we have to commit 3-4 months in advance its another.

Good question... My background is Product Management in software so physical inventory wasn't a big problem. But since you asked, and I'm not shy , I'd start here:

Isata: Top line product so all are "upgraded".
Forester: Mid-line product so 50% are "upgraded".
Sunseeker: Entry level so 30% are "upgraded".

You still draw from the same two pools and can adjust the initial assumptions after sales show a trend. Or just order 750 "upgraded" units, 25% of your pool of 3,000 units, and see how fast they sell...

Originally Posted by bclemens

Real world example: I worked for another mfg that offered a chassis with power seat and without because "everyone" asked for power seats. Until of course people did not want to pay for power seats or dealers decided not to stock the more expensive one. So what happened is they ended up with too many power seat units and not enough regular. So they had to use the power seat versions and discount the price on the unit to the dealers...because they didn't order the power seat option

What were you charging for those "power seats"!

Originally Posted by bclemens

Now, having said all that. We do meet and discuss the chassis specs and I will certainly bring that up. There are a couple that I would like to see added.

I appreciate that you are listening to us.

[bclemens]

That's the sad part...the power seats weren't that expensive. A good portion of it is driven by the dealers...what are they willing to stock. While you paid for the upgrade gen...I can tell you the vast majority will grind over a few hundred dollars. Dealers know this and try to be as competitive as possible.

The Thor and Jayco chassis are spec'd pretty much the same as ours. Unless something has changed recently.

[ericlakin]

Man I wish I had that rear Jayco sideways opening door instead of the rear door that opens upward. Wish I knew who decided on that design decision. Clearly someone who doesn't spend time in these things!

[HomeOnWheels]

Originally Posted by RedLdr1

Isata: Top line product so all are "upgraded".
Forester: Mid-line product so 50% are "upgraded".
Sunseeker: Entry level so 30% are "upgraded".

This is the first time I heard of Isata. How is it different from Forester or Sunseeker? Better quality? More features?

[bclemens]

You'll find your answers in the Dynamax section.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ns-100361.html