ALERT! Biodiesel

[CaptnJohn]

Bio-diesel & ethanol ~~~ putting food in our fuel tanks only raises the price of everything from bread to beef as well as fuel.. Never made sense to me.

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Bio-diesel & ethanol ~~~ putting food in our fuel tanks only raises the price of everything from bread to beef as well as fuel.. Never made sense to me.

It raises the market price of the ingredients, and that's the point of it (secondarily reduction of particulate emissions but that's not the prime motivation of the sponsors).


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

It raises the market price of the ingredients, and that's the point of it (secondarily reduction of particulate emissions but that's not the prime motivation of the sponsors).


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

Possibly the biggest reason is the green movement and global warming (that lost so now climate change) movement gave good reason for another farm subsidy.

[MNtraveler]

40 of our senators did this. The wave is strong.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...targets-in-rfs


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by MNtraveler

40 of our senators did this. The wave is strong.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...targets-in-rfs


Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R

Hopefully, they are not reelected at the next election cycle.

[yogiandlisa]

Ok done some research...PA looks like I'm good for a little while...does anyone know how to find the status of the changes from B5 to B10 to B20..which is law in PA predicated on millions of gallons sold....

Also the way I read that bulletin from MB looks like it does not void warranty until over B20...is that what everyone understands?

thanks
Scott and Lisa
FR Forester 2401 MBS

[Mikegjax]

Also the way I read that bulletin from MB looks like it does not void warranty until over B20...is that what everyone understands?

thanks
Scott and Lisa
FR Forester 2401 MBS[/QUOTE]

That is how I understand it!

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Mikegjax

Also the way I read that bulletin from MB looks like it does not void warranty until over B20...is that what everyone understands?

thanks
Scott and Lisa
FR Forester 2401 MBS

That is how I understand it![/QUOTE]


Correct ~~ at least for the Ford 6.7. Not sure how it works for older trucks. Like ethanol ~~ mileage drops a little and it costs as much or more. No stations have it near my home except Wal-Mart (Murphy) which makes it easy to avoid. One Pilot truck stop had it in GA, I pulled out as a stop a few miles away did not and fuel was 30 cents less.

[Phinias]

No, 5% is the cutoff. I spoke with engineering at MB

[MNtraveler]

Originally Posted by yogiandlisa

Ok done some research...PA looks like I'm good for a little while...does anyone know how to find the status of the changes from B5 to B10 to B20..which is law in PA predicated on millions of gallons sold....

Also the way I read that bulletin from MB looks like it does not void warranty until over B20...is that what everyone understands?

thanks
Scott and Lisa
FR Forester 2401 MBS

It doesn't look like Pennsylvania has gone beyond a 2% mandate (B2).

https://www.afpm.org/content.aspx?id=1459

MB says they won't stand behind B20 but below that their advice is to keep it down as much as you can. It's easier said than done in some areas.

[Skyliner]

How is MB going to know if you had run a tank or two of B20 or B5?

The big concern with running Biodiesel above 5% is crankcase oil dilution with post combustion injection to clean (regenerate) the dpf


If you run a tank of B20 just follow up the next tank with pure diesel and you'll be ok. If B20 is prevalent and you can't avoid it, reduce oil change intervals to 5,000 miles and you'll be ok.

I've got a 100k miles on my 3.0 MB engine and have used B20 about 1/3 of the time. Engine has been fairly reliable except for a bad turbo actuator which I replaced last month. Speaking of turbo actuators, they don't sell them in the USA and dealerships will want to sell you a 4,000 dollar turbo. You can get the actuator rebuilt for about 200 dollars overseas!

Don't get stuck because you are afraid of running B20 fuel. A little B20 occasionally won't hurt a thing but do not use extended oil intervals.

[MNtraveler]

A bit of an update - the industry lawsuit against the Minnesota biodiesel mandate was rejected by a federal district court judge. This is subject to appeal, but it does not look like it would be very successful on appeal either.

http://www.biodieselmagazine.com/art...diesel-mandate




Land of 10,000 Lakes
2016 Forester MBS 2401R
Nights camped 2016: 29; RV to date: 32

[namusmc]

Interesting article about biodiesel I came across in another forum

A new study points to the negative results of using Bio Fuels.


University of Michigan’s Energy Institute research professor John DeCicco, Ph.D., believes that rising carbon dioxide emissions cause global warming and, therefore, humans must find a way to reduce its levels in the atmosphere. But ethanol is the wrong solution.
According to his just-released study, political support for biofuels, particularly ethanol, exacerbates the problem instead of curing it.

DeCicco and his co-authors assert: “Contrary to popular belief, the heat-trapping carbon dioxide gas emitted when biofuels are burned is not fully balanced by the CO2 uptake that occurs as the plants grow.” The presumption that biofuels emit significantly fewer greenhouse gases (GHG) than gasoline does is, according to DeCicco: “misguided.”

His research has upended the conventional wisdom and angered the alternative fuel lobbyists. The headline-grabbing claim is that biofuels prove worse for the environment than gasoline.

DeCicco has been focused on this topic for nearly a decade. In 2007, when the Energy Independence and Security Act (also known as the expanded ethanol mandate) was in the works, he told me: “I realized that something seemed horribly amiss with a law that established a sweeping mandate which rested on assumptions, not scientific fact, that were unverified and might be quite wrong, even though they were commonly accepted and politically correct (and politically convenient).” He saw that while biofuels sounded good, no one had checked the math.

Previously, based on life cycle analysis, it has been assumed that crop-based biofuels, were not just carbon neutral, but actually offered modest net GHG reductions. This, DeCicco says, is the “premise of most climate related fuel policies promulgated to date, including measures such as the LCFS [California’s Low Carbon Fuel Standard] and RFS [the federal Renewable Fuel Standard passed in 2005 and expanded in 2007].”

The DeCicco study, Carbon balance effects of U.S. biofuel production and use, uses Annual Basis Carbon (ABC) accounting—which does not treat biofuels as inherently carbon neutral. Instead, it treats biofuels as “part of a dynamic stock-and-flow system.” Its methodology “tallies CO2 emissions based on the chemistry in the specific locations where they occur.” In May, on my radio program, DeCicco explained: “Life Cycle Analysis is wrong because it fails to actually look at what is going on at the farms.”

The concept behind DeCicco’s premise is that the idea of ethanol being carbon neutral assumes that the ground where the corn is grown was barren dirt (without any plants removing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere) before the farmer decided to plant corn for ethanol. If that were the case, then, yes, planting corn on that land, converting that corn to ethanol that is then burned as a vehicle fuel, might come close to being carbon neutral. But the reality is that land already had corn, or some other crop, growing on it—so that land’s use was already absorbing CO2. You can’t count it twice.

DeCicco explains “Growing the corn that becomes ethanol absorbs no more carbon from the air than the corn that goes into cattle feed or corn flakes. Burning the ethanol releases essentially the same amount of CO2 as burning gasoline. No less CO2 went into the air from the tailpipe; no more CO2 was removed from the air at the cornfield. So where’s the climate benefit?”

Much of that farmland was growing corn to feed cattle and chickens—also known as feedstock. The RFS requires an ever-increasing amount of ethanol be blended into the nation’s fuel supply. Since the RFS became law in 2005, the amount of land dedicated to growing corn for ethanol has increased from 12.4 percent of the overall corn crop to 38.6 percent. While the annual supply of corn has increased by 17 percent, the amount going into feedstock has decreased from 57.5 percent to 37.98%.

The rub comes from the fact that we are not eating less. Globally, more food is required, not less. The livestock still needs to be fed. So while the percentage of corn going into feedstock in the U.S. has decreased because of the RFS, that corn is now grown somewhere else. One such place is Brazil where previous pasture land, because it is already flat, has been converted to growing corps. Ranchers have been pushed out to what was forest and deforestation is taking place.

Adding to the biofuels-are-worse-than-gasoline accounting are the effects from producing ethanol. You have to cook it and ferment it—which requires energy. In the process, CO2 bubbles off. By expanding the quantity of corn grown, prairie land is busted up and stored CO2 is released.

DeCicco says: “it is this domino effect that makes ethanol worse.”

How much worse?

The study looks at the period with the highest increase in ethanol production due to the RFS: 2005-2013. The conclusion is that the increased carbon dioxide uptake by the crops was only enough to offset 37 percent of the CO2 emissions due to biofuel combustion.

DeCicco’s research finds, that while further work is needed to examine the research and policy implications going forward, “it makes more sense to soak up CO2 through reforestation and redouble efforts to protect forests rather than producing biofuels, which puts carbon rich lands at risk.”

[CaptnJohn]

Since no one sent me a check to plant a tree I've never had much faith in global warming. As that proved inaccurate it is now climate change. Latest headlines indicate 30,000 scientists disagree with Al Gore and the environmentalists. Headlines also indicate the ice packs are relatively unchanged. Agree or not it always seemed ridiculous to burn food in gas and diesel tanks. Mileage decreases and more fuel is needed. Maintenance is often required in old engines, small engines, and fuel tanks that sit awhile. People wonder why the cost of food has gone up- corn is a very useful food source not only for humans directly but everything from chickens to cattle. Farmers hardly benefit, the major corporations with 10s of thousands of acres do. They are the one with the lobbyists and marketing people to keep the facts and fallacies at the forefront as well as the taxpayer funded subsidies rising. Extra costs at the refineries.... just never made a bit of sense to me,,, but I'm not getting any subsidy either.

[SidecarFlip]

Global warming to me is the heat coming from my furnace that keeps me warm in the winter..

That is it.

All phooey to me, So is B20. That is phooey too. More expensive than ULSD everywhere...

Being green is having more green (backs) in my wallet...

[KingFisher]

Originally Posted by CaptnJohn

Since no one sent me a check to plant a tree I've never had much faith in global warming. As that proved inaccurate it is now climate change. Latest headlines indicate 30,000 scientists disagree with Al Gore and the environmentalists. Headlines also indicate the ice packs are relatively unchanged. Agree or not it always seemed ridiculous to burn food in gas and diesel tanks. Mileage decreases and more fuel is needed. Maintenance is often required in old engines, small engines, and fuel tanks that sit awhile. People wonder why the cost of food has gone up- corn is a very useful food source not only for humans directly but everything from chickens to cattle. Farmers hardly benefit, the major corporations with 10s of thousands of acres do. They are the one with the lobbyists and marketing people to keep the facts and fallacies at the forefront as well as the taxpayer funded subsidies rising. Extra costs at the refineries.... just never made a bit of sense to me,,, but I'm not getting any subsidy either.

I suppose we could say the same thing about the extra fuel burnt by my diesel during regen, it seems counter productive. It also costs me more money.

[Still Kickin]

Listen, all the science in the world is not going to change one thing with these dunces. These tree huggers think us non-believers, still drag our knuckles. I say, RV as you wish, and your pocketbook lets you. Let them by the prius and eat tofu. Want to really rile up a tree hugger, go RVing.

[SidecarFlip]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Listen, all the science in the world is not going to change one thing with these dunces. These tree huggers think us non-believers, still drag our knuckles. I say, RV as you wish, and your pocketbook lets you. Let them by the prius and eat tofu. Want to really rile up a tree hugger, go RVing.

Gimme prime rib anyday. Tofu SUCKS bi time

In the subject of B20, I had a bad experience (expensive) with B20 a few years ago, let it sit in my fuel tank over the winter (fuel tank full) and it grew slimy algae, ruined the lift pump, destroyed the fuel level sensor in the fuel tank, clogged the fuel filters and cost me almost a grand in parts (I did the repairs myself including dropping the fuel tank and replacing it with a new one), all for the 'honor of being green'. Phooey with that. Never again.

I run ULSD now and every tank, add a bottle of Stanadyne additive and in the winter I dose the tank with Power Service fuel additive and Bio-Kleen biocide, just to be sure.

Nothing better (or worse) than a non running diesel (with clogged arteries) in the spring.

[CaptnJohn]

Originally Posted by Still Kickin

Listen, all the science in the world is not going to change one thing with these dunces. These tree huggers think us non-believers, still drag our knuckles. I say, RV as you wish, and your pocketbook lets you. Let them by the prius and eat tofu. Want to really rile up a tree hugger, go RVing.

Most are well aware it is nothing but a great way to make money from those ~~ cannot recall Hillary's exact quote ~~