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Old 01-09-2023, 04:45 PM   #1
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Extra EMS required?

I have a 2022 42FSGK and want to see what everyone's thoughts are regarding the EMS's capabilities that is built into the trailer vs an additional EMS like Progressive's 50amp. I assumed it was generally managing power usage within the trailer, shedding load, etc., but I am not sure if it has any real protection for the feed coming in. Has anyone looked in it?
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Old 01-10-2023, 05:31 AM   #2
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I just know you can't use them both (at least on my 38MB) at the same time. I have a Surgeguard internal unit and the 50 amp external (which I no longer use).
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Old 01-10-2023, 01:22 PM   #3
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I just know you can't use them both (at least on my 38MB) at the same time. I have a Surgeguard internal unit and the 50 amp external (which I no longer use).
Rusty
I don't understand this. I am currently using the PI 50 amp at the pedestal and then plug my RV into that. So I am using both, but I am not sure if the one at the pedestal is needed. I cannot find anything in the Firefly docs that indicate it will protect the trailer, just that it will shed load when needed when underpowered (<50amp service).
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Old 01-10-2023, 02:54 PM   #4
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My opinion--yours may vary->
I think the dilemma is knowing what a given EMS does and the fact that “EMS” is used for many functions. In the electric industry an EMS is a multi-million dollar computer system that monitors the grid, while some RV onboard EMS devices shed load to manage current or possibly voltage. The Progressive Industries EMS monitors voltage to protect against bad conditions such as surge or open neutral. When it finds a bad condition it opens a relay to simply cut off power to the RV. I don’t see how this would interfere with any other downstream EMS, and it has no ability to shed part of the load.
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Old 01-10-2023, 03:04 PM   #5
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One more thing. Because 50 amp RV power uses 120/240 volts, a bad neutral can shift the voltage to something like 100 on one side with 140 on the other--voltages that will damage things. No one running RV 50 amp should be without a device that checks for bad neutral.
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Old 01-10-2023, 03:05 PM   #6
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My opinion--yours may vary->
I think the dilemma is knowing what a given EMS does and the fact that “EMS” is used for many functions. In the electric industry an EMS is a multi-million dollar computer system that monitors the grid, while some RV onboard EMS devices shed load to manage current or possibly voltage. The Progressive Industries EMS monitors voltage to protect against bad conditions such as surge or open neutral. When it finds a bad condition it opens a relay to simply cut off power to the RV. I don’t see how this would interfere with any other downstream EMS, and it has no ability to shed part of the load.
You have explained in a lot of words the reason I am asking .
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Old 01-10-2023, 03:05 PM   #7
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One more thing. Because 50 amp RV power uses 120/240 volts, a bad neutral can shift the voltage to something like 100 on one side with 140 on the other--voltages that will damage things. No one running RV 50 amp should be without a device that checks for bad neutral.
Agreed, but does the EMS built into a Riverstone Legacy cover this or does it require a separate EMS to do this.
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Old 01-10-2023, 10:37 PM   #8
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I think you're going to need to call Riverstone and find out a specific make/model that's installed. Then with that information, you can answer the question or we can help.
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Old 01-10-2023, 11:44 PM   #9
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Ha, call Riverstone. Clearly you haven't seen my other posts about them. But I posted in the Riverstone forum hoping someone else had already chased this one down. If I had that information I would not have needed to post the question .
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Old 01-11-2023, 12:10 AM   #10
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Do you have any information at all about the EMUnit in the Riverstone?
Did you get a sheet of paper that lists the components of the rv with serial numbers? That would tell you if you've got an EMS installed.
If you have a 50 amp EMS, have you tried it to see if it works?

I agree with Wheelin14. You really need an EMS that checks the power going into your rv. Usually ours is most useful to shut off low voltage coming into the rv to protect the electrical components... like the a/c.
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Old 01-11-2023, 12:17 AM   #11
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It is the factory installed EMS that is integrated into the Firefly Vega system. I was really directing this question to other owner's of a Riverstone that may have already been down this road. I understand what the PI and Hughes EMS do, I am just not sure if the one that was factory included performs the same functions. Thanks for trying to help and sorry I wasn't clear enough.
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Old 01-11-2023, 02:56 AM   #12
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It is the factory installed EMS that is integrated into the Firefly Vega system. I was really directing this question to other owner's of a Riverstone that may have already been down this road. I understand what the PI and Hughes EMS do, I am just not sure if the one that was factory included performs the same functions. Thanks for trying to help and sorry I wasn't clear enough.
No worries.
Have you tried the manual on the forestriverinc website? https://forestriverinc.help/#/forest...ultiple-726986
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Old 01-11-2023, 08:34 AM   #13
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It is the factory installed EMS that is integrated into the Firefly Vega system. I was really directing this question to other owner's of a Riverstone that may have already been down this road. I understand what the PI and Hughes EMS do, I am just not sure if the one that was factory included performs the same functions. Thanks for trying to help and sorry I wasn't clear enough.
Call Firefly.
They have excellent customer service.
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Old 01-11-2023, 09:54 AM   #14
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No worries.
Have you tried the manual on the forestriverinc website? https://forestriverinc.help/#/forest...ultiple-726986
Yes, I have read that material, thanks.
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Old 01-11-2023, 09:54 AM   #15
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Call Firefly.
They have excellent customer service.
I will try there next.
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Old 01-17-2023, 10:15 AM   #16
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EMS vs Surge Protection

I have a 21 RKFB. The EMS "definition" in mine is auto-bypass on the inverter when you plug into shore power, and auto-shedding when on 30 Amp vs 50 Amp. There is no built-in surge protection from the factory that I am aware of. I use a Hughes Power WatchDog Surge protector at my shore power connection. It has a lot of useful information via bluetooth, but I really would not call it an EMS - it is Surge Protection. I upgraded from a cheap dog bone surge proctor to the Hughes Power Watchdog due to the surge modules being easily replaceable, and the addition information available in the app - mostly usage, so I can reimburse my brother for electricity when parked at his house.

My definition is that Surge Protection is NOT EMS, unless it specifically has that in the description. If the factory EMS had surge protection, that was not in a replaceable module, you would have to replace the whole thing after a surge event. That would be ridiculously expensive! If there was a replaceable surge module, they would absolutely make that easily identifieable.
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:00 PM   #17
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The built in EMS only sheds AC loads when on lower than 50amps of shore power. Get an true Surge / EMS that will check for wiring issues, protect from surges, low voltage and high voltage.
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Old 01-18-2023, 01:07 PM   #18
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The built in EMS only sheds AC loads when on lower than 50amps of shore power. Get an true Surge / EMS that will check for wiring issues, protect from surges, low voltage and high voltage.
I already have one, I was just curious if this was a duplication of effort. It appears the consensus is that the EMS in the Riverstone is only as you indicated - load management. I will keep using my external surge/ems.
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Old 03-29-2023, 08:36 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Jerry McLellan View Post
I have a 21 RKFB. The EMS "definition" in mine is auto-bypass on the inverter when you plug into shore power, and auto-shedding when on 30 Amp vs 50 Amp. There is no built-in surge protection from the factory that I am aware of. I use a Hughes Power WatchDog Surge protector at my shore power connection. It has a lot of useful information via bluetooth, but I really would not call it an EMS - it is Surge Protection. I upgraded from a cheap dog bone surge proctor to the Hughes Power Watchdog due to the surge modules being easily replaceable, and the addition information available in the app - mostly usage, so I can reimburse my brother for electricity when parked at his house.

My definition is that Surge Protection is NOT EMS, unless it specifically has that in the description. If the factory EMS had surge protection, that was not in a replaceable module, you would have to replace the whole thing after a surge event. That would be ridiculously expensive! If there was a replaceable surge module, they would absolutely make that easily identifieable.
Sorry to get into this conversation late but I too have the Hughes Watchdog surge protector. My 419RD has a built in EMS. Both of these devices work great BUT...the Watchdog is super-sensitive to power fluctuations when you are on shore power. In fact, my Watchdog has isolated (turned off) shore power coming into my RV a couple of times over the past month before the RV's EMS got a chance to shed the internal electrical load. The Hughes sensed a low voltage condition (normally on L1) and turned the power off. I physically had to go out to the shore power pole and reset the breakers by hand.

I'll continue to use both devices. Better safe than sorry.
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Old 03-30-2023, 08:07 AM   #20
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We have a 2022 442MC and use a Hughes autoformers watchdog. The firefly EMS only sheds load when the amps on either or both lines approaches 50 amps. As mentioned the Watchdog also monitors for high load, but does not shed it will actually trip out. IMO you need both, as the Watchdog does many things over and above high load protection. As many have mentioned on here already. We have been using a watchdog for a number of years in other RVs and can share that it has saved us on many occasions, bad ground, open neutral, lightening strikes on the par transformers, etc. So with today’s RV’s having more and more sensitive electronics in board, protection to bad power/surges is necessary. In regards to our 442 and the firefly EMS, to be honest we are in south Texas and have had all 3 A/C units running steady and the load never gets close to 50 amps on either line, so we have never experienced a shedding event.
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