Air Conditioner to run off-the-grid?

[HeloSNA24]

What's the best way to get your AC to run off the grid? Solar set up combined with additional battery? Do I need an inverter?

[Flybob]

Most economical and reliable is a generator. A solar set up would be large and expensive. Multiple panels and high capacity deep cycle batteries.

[HeloSNA24]

Appreciate it. Any recommendations? 13.5 BTU AC from Dometic

[formerFR]

most any 2,000 watt generator, especially 'inverter' type generators, can easily run your roof air conditioner, and some other things at the same time. Honda's are popular, quite, and easy to carry, and can also be paralleled with a 'companion' model to give you full 30amp 'rv service' like you'd have at a campground.

no, solar will never be able to give you enough 12v power thru a large inverter to power your air conditioner, especially since running an air conditioner tends to be a 'constant' activity, not something only used for a few minutes at the time, like a microwave.
If you want to spend $20,000 for enough 'solar' and batteries and an inverter, go for it, though.

[GL1800Rider]

The Champion Dual Fuel Inverter generator is another good choice with good reviews and gives you the option of using propane at a much lower cost than the Honda. Something worth looking in to.

https://www.cabelas.com/product/CHAM...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

[dbledan]

You could run your A/C with a 2000W inverter but it will likely require an easy start unit for another $350+install and that is likely all you will run with it.

Solar you will spend a small fortune in lithium batteries and inverter and the soft start to get it to run for a few minutes. If you really want to try look for video from the Wynn's. They tested on am RV and a boat. https://youtu.be/B0rZY5uotKI

Check their videos because they show soft starts and other information between their RV and boat. If you are going to do the solar thing anyway then it may work for you.

Best and cheapest in my opnion is a 3000w+ inverter to support your A/C and other items. You could also do two 2000w inverter generators paralleled, though more expensive.

The solution will be dictated by what kind of fuel and how much you do or dont want to refuel.

I use a champion dual fuel 3400w generator. It powers my 15k btu just fine without a soft start on propane and will also run everything else I need. I run gas during the day and I will consume 5gallons running the A/C (refueling every 60-90min) over 15 hours. Running off a 20lb propane bottle (exchange so only 3/4 full) I get about 14-18 hours so I swap to propane at night and swap the tank during the day. I converted it to also run off my LP port on the trailer so I can run for a few days on two 30lb tanks with auto changeover.

If you go to a honda inverter pair (gas only) you can get a large boat tank to run it and refuel them both daily. The tank kits for the champion are hit and miss because there is no suction on the fuel line but you can find an external tank mod that will add a fuel pump to the generator to use an outboard tank more reliably.

There are many other brands of generators that work fine as well but note the tank size and how often you will need to refill. See what meets your needs best and people can answer more specific questions.

Good luck!

[aircommuter]

Dometic makes an inverter type RV air conditioner that might be helpful for solar but I have only seen the 240v 50 cycle version so far.

[NJKris]

I have two cube style inverter generators from Champion that I bought to run A/C (with parallel connector) for about 800 bucks. Haven't had chance to go off grid, didn't even put oil in generators yet.

[Tundra 2014]

I noticed Echo is now making a 2400 watt investor generator. Specs list 70 lb. and 57 DB. I have not looked it up for all the specs, but in person it looked very good. Sounded very quiet. Lawn shop had them on sale for $700. Might be enough w/o easy start conversion for a 13.5K.

[Tundra 2014]

I have a Generac IQ 3500 invertor, easily runs my A/C. It is 100 lb. dry + 24 lb. w/ gas.Great quiet unit w/ 150 hours on it now. Lifting it into the back of my F-350 takes help. If I did it again I would look at a 2400 watt that is able to be hooked parallel. I would buy the 2400 and if needed buy the Quick Start. If that did not solve needs to run 1 A/C, I would buy another and have the ability to run both A/Cs.

[jimmoore13]

A favorite subject - battery power vs. real world - because the numbers are staggering.
If you intend to boondock, you absolutely MUST know this stuff. Fortunately, Rapid Tables makes it very easy.

13,500 BTU to watts = 4000 watts in round numbers.
https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/...U_to_Watt.html

4000 watts at 12 volts = 333 AMPS per hour = 333 amp hours. GULP!
https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/ele...alculator.html

So, you need god's own inverter to deliver enough wattage, and you need cable the size of your thumb to carry 300+ amps.

13,500 BTU is the startup power (which accounts for the need to add an easy-start [giant capacitor] to start the AC). Let's assume your AC unit will run, once started, on 60% of startup power. That's, conveniently, 200 amps at 12 volts. 200 amps for an hour are 200 amp hours (AH).

This is getting ugly in a hurry. You'll need 2.0 AWG wire from the battery bank to your inverter, and it needs to be a short run.
https://images.crutchfieldonline.com...auge-Chart.jpg

Now let's assume the "gold standard" RV battery bank: 4 x 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series/parallel to deliver roughly 460 AH. You get to use half. (Another discussion, but believe me, you only get to use half of the rated amp hours.) So you have 230 AH on tap to power EVERYTHING until you recharge...say with solar.

Do the math, and you see that you'll drain your battery bank in just over an hour.

Go lithium, he says? Here's a good one at only a kilobuck, but wait, it's only 100 AH. Sure, you can dig much deeper that 50% into that Battleborn, so maybe 75 AH or so before you must recharge.
https://www.solar-electric.com/battl...gaAiQxEALw_wcB
But you see where this is going...in a helluva hurry.

Now comes the solar: Assuming a reasonably priced 400 watt system from Renology or Windy Nation. 4 panels will fit reasonably on most RV roof. Given that your rig has a 13,500 BTU AC unit, your rig is on the small side.
4 panels are about the limit. In sunny Colorado, each panel can pump out roughly 30 to 35 amp hours per day in good sun. So on a good day, you can "replace" about 120 to 140 AH with that solar array. If you have the gold standard battery bank, you'll operate at a daily deficit of about 100 AH unless you use less power or you supplement with generator.
https://smile.amazon.com/Renogy-Mono...NsaWNrPXRydWU=

To do what you're asking, you'd need a second trailer to haul batteries and solar panels, a solar system and battery bank from Tesla or similar to run your AC, or, you can go with a 2 KW inverter generator and an AC kickstarter, or you can do it right and get a 3500 watt genny like this one from Harbor Freight - VERY highly regarded by Consumer Reports - and do it right.

3500 Watt Predator: https://www.harborfreight.com/mercha...tor-63584.html

Tesla: https://www.gocamsolar.com/solar-bat...UaAiYCEALw_wcB

The hard facts of life with batteries are that batteries SUCK for energy storage. You absolutely NEED a generator to run AC. And with anything short of the gold standard battery bank, any kind of compressor fridge will suck your batteries dry in no time. That's why we have 2 way fridges in most small RVs. Nobody wants to use up 300 pounds worth of the roughly 800 +/- pounds of cargo capacity on batteries, inverter, solar panels, and related tonnage of copper wire to connect it all.

One more hard lesson on energy storage:
1 gallon of propane contains 91,500 BTU. https://www.google.com/search?q=btu+...hrome&ie=UTF-8
A 5 gallon tank holds about 4.5 gallons or 411,750 BTU.
One tank of propane contains 120,672 watts.
https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/...U_to_Watt.html
120 KW = 10,000+ amp hours at 12 volts.
The two puny propane tanks on the tongue of your rig contain 20,000 AH energy equivalent of battery power, or 87 times the USABLE energy equivalent of the gold standard battery bank!!

Gasoline contains 114,000 BTU per gallon. At 20% efficiency, your generator will turn a single gallon of gas into 550 AH at 12 volts - 55 AH at 120 volts (they are the same).

Put differently, a gallon of gas in a generator is the energy equivalent of almost TWO of the puny 12 volt group 24 batteries the dealer sent you down the road with. And, of course, you can carry spare fuel in a can.

The facts of energy life are hard...very hard. But now you have the tools to understand the limits of your battery bank...whatever the size...and how to choose the right energy delivery system for the job at hand.

I repeat. Batteries S. U. C. K. I have 400 watts of solar and 2 x 6 volt golf cart batteries, AND a 2 KW generator, AND a propane powered fridge. I can boondock indefinitely in sunny CO. We do not need AC in the mountains (though all campers have them). If I needed AC, I'd have a 3500 watt generator - period.

I love my propane fire pit. We have fire bans all the time in CO, but you can use a propane fire pit during all but the worst fire bans. It eats propane at the rate of 54,000 BTU/hour when turned up full. Used judiciously, I can get two days out of a tank of propane. I have two tanks on the tongue and two tanks in the TV for the fire pit. And I carry one gallon of gasoline in a can for the generator, too. I seldom have to refill, because we have "enough" solar for 12 volt needs, we don't use the AC, and we only use the genny for the microwave and coffee maker. More often than not, I give my gallon of gas to a neighbor who ran out.

Good luck boondocking. It's far better than RV park camping, but you really need these fundamentals if you want to do it successfully.

P.S. If you boondock, you'll soon discover that you need to do something with grey water. Black tanks hold a surprising amount of effluent. But grey water builds up quickly. In the very dry Rocky Mountains, a garden hose adapter for the grey-water dump, a short length of hose, and a 5 gallon bucket will get the job done. In the woods, I water the trees. In a federal or state campground, I go the the nearest vault toilet. I also carry 4 x 7 gallon Reliance jugs of fresh water to refill my holding tank.
https://smile.amazon.com/Reliance-Pr...s%2C200&sr=8-2

Boondocking below.

[Utah Traveler]

You could also do two Yamaha 2000w inverter generators paralleled. Costco has a no-name brand that uses a Yamaha engine, that is less expensive than the actual Yamaha brand inverter generator.
The 2 separate units are a lot lighter to carry and load than one larger unit.
In the cooler seasons when you don"t need the A/C you only need to bring 1 unit with you for recharging camper batteries, or using coffee maker or microwave in the morning.
We only dry camp, and usually at high altitudes. For every 1000 ft of elevation your inverter/generator will lose a percentage of it's power output.n For that reason we installed (easy install google it) a "soft start" capacitor on our A/C unit. Basically it stores a charge it it, then when your A/C first starts up using generator power it releases that stored power to assist the Inverter/generator in starting the A/C. Start-ups on A/C take about 3 times more power than it takes to run the A/C. Soft Starts cost me on Amazon about $15.
No more low voltage starts that can damage an expensive A/C

[HeloSNA24]

Holy moly...I'm literally in awe of the knowledge and time yall have dedicated to explaining out the fundamentals to me. Thank you very much. I think I have a lot to consider. Ultimately it seems like the way to go for bang for your buck and energy extension is the combination of solar/propane, and generator. Propane to run the fridge and stove, solar to run low power essentials, 12v tv to run off my Flexopower 444 lithium battery charged by my 80 watt rockpals foldable solar unit. I like the idea of the dual fuel champion but I need to see if it fits in my storage compartment. I have a 20 lb propane that came with the RV and a 10 lb that I utilize for outdoor grill, tankless water heater for outdoor shower on the Zr2, and propane fire ring.

I certainly would like to get the GoSolar to be utilized but boy are they pricey and seems like a bitch to rewire everything.

I read some threads regarding the 2200 watt generator with soft start but I don't want to have to buy $350 unit softstart and all the rewiring involved on the AC unit. Seems like just getting generator to handle starter wattage should do the trick and with gas/propane option I have multiple alternatives if I'm off-grid.

Thank you folks for the break downs and formulas.

[Cowracer]

Watch this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0rZY5uotKI&t=28s

Tim

[formerFR]

Originally Posted by HeloSNA24

Holy moly...I'm literally in awe of the knowledge and time yall have dedicated to explaining out the fundamentals to me. ..

Thank you folks for the break downs and formulas.

... most folks new to RVing need to get out there and 'try out' the lifestyle with the equipment they already purchased, the RV itself, before spending a lot of money on 'other' stuff that they think 'might' be good for them... sometimes you don't really 'know' what you need to 'know' because you don't yet 'know' it!

Experience makes a lot more difference versus just drawing things out on 'paper'...

[HeloSNA24]

Thanks folks. Seems like an expensive idea for all solar and boondocking if A/C is on for the long term.

Follow up question, if I got honda 2200 for example and parallel 2, can I store them sidewise in my travel trailer or do they need to be stored right side up? Asking because Cargo is 20" w by 13" h. I'm thinking no but I'll ask the folks, plus I can always store in the pickup.

[formerFR]

you probably won't want to store them inside anyway since they have gas/fuel... not a good choice.

[Bluepill]

Originally Posted by HeloSNA24

Thanks folks. Seems like an expensive idea for all solar and boondocking if A/C is on for the long term.

Follow up question, if I got honda 2200 for example and parallel 2, can I store them sidewise in my travel trailer or do they need to be stored right side up? Asking because Cargo is 20" w by 13" h. I'm thinking no but I'll ask the folks, plus I can always store in the pickup.

Storing any power equipment with a gas or diesel engine on its side allows the oil to back drain into the cylinder head and the crankcase vent. Owner's manuals often warn that you must return the the unit to proper orientation for a few hours before running so the oil has time to properly drain back to the crankcase where it belongs.

[dbledan]

Originally Posted by HeloSNA24

Thanks folks. Seems like an expensive idea for all solar and boondocking if A/C is on for the long term.

Follow up question, if I got honda 2200 for example and parallel 2, can I store them sidewise in my travel trailer or do they need to be stored right side up? Asking because Cargo is 20" w by 13" h. I'm thinking no but I'll ask the folks, plus I can always store in the pickup.

Curious why you would not put them in the truck?

While the Honda fuel tanks are sealed I don't think you want to store them sideways as they could leak oil and likely will need to sit a while before using them if you do.

Many folks run them in the truck bed and run the cord to the truck.

If I were to start all over I would look at the champion dual fuel 2000w units and parallel them.

[HeloSNA24]

Appreciate all the feedback folks. Truck loaded generator it is with parallel setup it is.