How do you charge your trailer at home?

[TravelDad]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

This saved me a lot of typing although ruined at the end by the needless advice regarding gas stations and tunnels. (The sky is NOT falling!) The trailer is 25 feet from the gas pumps and there are only half a dozen tunnels in the US where you have to turn the LP off. Just set it to AUTO unless the outdoor temperature is pushing 100°F at which point LP will provide better cooling. Refrigerator can run for weeks (plural) on one cylinder of propane and you have two.

The battery will charge automatically if plugged in to 110v and the battery switch is ON. 15 amp circuit is fine. A 20 amp will do all this and run your AC in most cases.

-- Chuck

Thanks Chuck!

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by chriscowles

Traveling with propane on is a controversial topic because of the potential for a fire, particularly at gas stations. Many people conclude that the risk is low and travel with propane on. Some states have laws against it.

Propane is heavier than air and can pool at the bottom of tunnels, causing an explosion/fire hazard. If you live in a location where there are underwater tunnels (e.g., the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel), they typically require propane to be off at a minimum. Some forbid propane of any kind, requiring you to take a different route. Mountain tunnels have a crest in the middle, so any propane naturally drains out. Those generally don't have propane restrictions.

As for the battery disconnect, I think you'll find the solar panel conductors are separate, and always on. You'll also find the solar panel that came with the trailer is modest in size. It's good for keeping your battery up while in storage and maybe supplementing it while camping without power. It's probably inadequate for extended dry camping without a generator.

Can you post a link to the states that have laws against it ..... or are you just talking about driving through tunnels?

[Chuck_S]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpGtBnVZLSk

-- Chuck

[jimmoore13]

My M.O.

Variables worth mentioning. I have 400 watts of solar on the roof and 2 x 6 volt golf cart batteries in series on the tongue. I boondock exclusively.

1. Plug in the rig in the spring and leave it plugged into shore power when it's available. Allow the converter/charger to manage the battery. Check the battery electrolyte regularly (monthly) and top off with distilled water as needed. Depending on the batteries storage, leave the rig plugged into shore power year around.

2. Turn on the fridge in the spring and leave it running except to defrost it...along about the end of August or early September. Turn it back on after defrosting. Turn it off when camping season is over, because absorption fridges don't perform well in the cold anyway. If you leave the fridge on, the rig must be fairly level when parked, or you'll damage the fridge. https://www.everything-about-rving.c...cooling%20down.
These are nice additions: https://www.amazon.com/Hopkins-08526...g%2C191&sr=8-3

3. "Force" the fridge over to "gas" the night before departure. Monitor to ensure that it's running properly on propane. Then load with perishable food...the other stuff stays in there all the time. If the fridge faults for any reason, it will likely sound an alarm. Turn it off then back on to reset...even on AC. Always purge your propane lines by running the gas appliance farthest from the tanks...range, hot water heater, etc., otherwise the fridge can starve for propane, because the tiny amount of fuel it draws before actually firing up will take forever to purge the lines.

4. Top off TV fuel BETWEEN trips when possible. Leave the fridge running on propane when underway. The risks are negligible except when refueling your TV. If I MUST add fuel to the TV when the RV is hooked on, I turn off the fridge before nearing the pumps, then I turn it back on after clearing the area near the gas pumps. With few exceptions, an RV fridge will run well on propane going down the road...anything above about 3.5 cubic feet.

5. Always force the fridge to run on propane when boondocking. Otherwise, if you fire up the generator and try to run the microwave, the fridge may "auto" switch to AC power and try to start while you're taxing the hell out of your genny running the micro.

6. About Solar: it's relentless when the sun is up, but it plays well with the RV's onboard converter/charger. In most cases, hooking up to a generator won't add much charge except in the mornings when you've been running the furnace all night. Then you must account for the fact that trying to run the micro competes a bit with the converter/charger's efforts to charge your battery. I always give the genny about 5 minutes to fully warm up before asking it to power our micro.

7. A NoBo is for boondocking. It's an ideal rig to which to add solar and a couple of 6-volt golf cart batteries to enable that boondocking. The sucky little 12-volt "marine" battery the dealer installed is comparatively useless. If it's a group 24 (standard size), it can deliver about 35 USABLE amp hours (AH) of power. If you must run the furnace on your No-Bo, 35 AH is barely enough and it will require you to be VERY frugal with 12 volt power otherwise. Other loads are the water pump, CO/Propane detector, step/stair light, and occasional use of interior lights. That battery is not really up to the job. A pair of 6-volts will give you about 115 USABLE AH. Then, when it comes to solar, you need enough solar to replace about that much in the way of AH. 400 watts does that easily in sunny Colorado. I never, Never, NEVER have to run my genny to charge the batteries...unless it's raining like hell, and then I run the genny because everyone around me is holed up in their rigs, tents, whatever, and waiting out the rain.

Two 6-volt golf cart batteries cost about $275 with tax, and I paid another $50 for dedicated plastic battery boxes for the tongue. https://www.batteriesplus.com/productdetails/sligc115

Important note on FLA (flooded cell lead acid) batteries. Whatever the rating is, you get to use half. Repeatedly drawing a battery down to dead or near dead will kill it quickly.

I have a simple solar setup...from Amazon. You can do better, but this is "enough" and then some. I never have to think about 12 volt power, and I've been out for 10 days straight. I run the stereo quite a bit, never think about lights, and we keep the rig toasty warm overnight without concern for the state of charge. I even have a 500 watt inverter I use to run my electric blanket for about 20 minutes to take the chill off the bed (this eats 10 AH or more all by itself). My stepson uses a CPAP, and we've run his CPAP thru the inverter overnight for many nights in a row.

At home, the solar keeps the batteries fully charged...AND I stay plugged in with everything connected...so I can use any AC appliance and outlets whenever I wish - e.g. to charge our dustbuster vac, run the shop vac, and so on.

One more thing. You need to understand power and fuel sources. This will shock you (pun intended). Batteries suck as power sources. Whenever possible, use propane. Comparison. My very nice battery bank can deliver 115 AH of USABLE power...about half of the batteries' rated power. Sounds like a lot, right? Not so fast. A SINGLE 5 gallon tank of propane (typically 4.5 gallons in fact) holds the energy equivalent of 10,000+ amp hours of energy. Yes, 10,000. In other words, one little tank of propane contains the same amount of energy as about 100 of my battery banks!! Use propane when you can. You likely have 2 of these tanks on your tongue, and you can carry spares in your tow vehicle...say to run the now ubiquitous propane fire pits that are essentially mandatory in the fire-prone western states. Out here, wood fires are so "pre-climate-change".

I'm expounding on all this, because a NoBo isn't a "park queen." It's a rugged, off-road, boondocking rig meant to kiss the grid goodbye for days and weeks at a time. A decent solar setup and batteries will make that possible, and running your fridge on propane is vital to that success.

Which brings us to water. Sooner or later the rig's fresh tank will run dry. I carry 4 of these: https://www.amazon.com/Reliance-Prod.../dp/B001QC31G6 I made an adapter with one of the caps, a 1/2" npt to barb plastic adapter, about 15" of clear plastic 1/2" hose and a hose clamp. I can fill my fresh tank quickly and easily, and I can run for more water if necessary. I don't need them for a weekend, but for an extended stay, they are awesome.

And then there's the "goes-outta" part which may become essential to allow extended stays. If you are anywhere near a vault toilet, one of these can be very helpful. https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Portabl...0_p_2_t_p&th=1 You can get bigger ones, but 15 gallons is actually a lot to handle - potentially 125 pounds of waste and the weight of the tank. If you must drive it somewhere to dump, you could fill this half way and lift it into your truck bed. On the ground, it's easy to handle even full. If there is a vault toilet, you should know that, in many cases, the entire toilet fixture (plastic toilet base and seat) may lift right out of their "hole" to enable you to dump with ease. So there's that. If not, keep your "load" light enough to handle the tote while partially full. You should be able to hoist 60 pounds of tote and effluent with relative ease and run the stinky slinky down the business end of the "toilet" to dump.

Seems to me, you asked about plugging in. I think I answered that somewhere in this diatribe.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by TravelDad

Where do I find that out?

Well, the brand name should be right on the front of the fridge. There should be a sticker inside with the model number.

[CurtPutnam]

You can shorten the chill time for the fridge by freezing some water bottles and putting then in the the freezer and fridge sections. Drink then as wanted or use for coffee in the morning.

[carlpete]

Disconnected from TV, hooked up to AC power at home.
Will there be anything drawing from the battery?

[SlowrideHD]

Originally Posted by carlpete

Disconnected from TV, hooked up to AC power at home.
Will there be anything drawing from the battery?

Indirectly, but your converter will be keeping your batteries at float voltage (about 13.2-13.6v) so you won't be "using" any of the amp/hour capacity of your battery(s).

[eye95]

Originally Posted by Chuck_S

This saved me a lot of typing although ruined at the end by the needless advice regarding gas stations and tunnels. (The sky is NOT falling!) The trailer is 25 feet from the gas pumps and there are only half a dozen tunnels in the US where you have to turn the LP off. Just set it to AUTO unless the outdoor temperature is pushing 100°F at which point LP will provide better cooling. Refrigerator can run for weeks (plural) on one cylinder of propane and you have two...

-- Chuck

If there are only a half a dozen tunnels in the US that prohibit propane, can you name them or provide a link to this claim?

When I gas up my TV, my RV is well within 25’ of the pump.

[Daniel.mullins4]

I Always run my fridge on propane while traveling to keep cold, there are safety devices on fridge to shut propane off if igniter fails

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dan

Can you post a link to the states that have laws against it ..... or are you just talking about driving through tunnels?

I read that here on FRF, so I know it has to be true.

Seriously, I will research the topic as I have time and report my results, whether it proves or refutes the statement.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by TravelDad

Where do I find that out?

Guessing at the size of the refrigerator provided in a NoBo 19, it's unlikely it's a 3-way refrigerator. If true, it will be 110VAC/propane, not 110VAC/propane/12VDC. If that's true, "Auto" means 110VAC if plugged into an AC source (generator or shore power) and propane if not. While driving, a 2-way refrigerator is limited to propane.

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by chriscowles

I read that here on FRF, so I know it has to be true.

Seriously, I will research the topic as I have time and report my results, whether it proves or refutes the statement.

Nothing personal. I always ask for links when members make definitive statements about things that my old man’s memory thinks have often/generally been debunked. If we had links to prove/disprove we might be able to put them in a library.

[JRHERE]

One more quick comment regarding converter and batteries.
Shut my toy hauler down today and before disconnecting shore power, found that the trailer is powered up by the converter even when the master batt switch is "off." Curious. Not what I expected. When the shore power is disconnected, and master is 'off,' the house is depowered. And, as expected, master "on" powers up 12Vdc when no shore. WFCO must be pretty smart.

[babock]

Originally Posted by JRHERE

One more quick comment regarding converter and batteries.
Shut my toy hauler down today and before disconnecting shore power, found that the trailer is powered up by the converter even when the master batt switch is "off." Curious. Not what I expected. When the shore power is disconnected, and master is 'off,' the house is depowered. And, as expected, master "on" powers up 12Vdc when no shore. WFCO must be pretty smart.

Has nothing to do with WFCO but how the trailer is wired.


You want to have the option to power the trailer with the converter with no battery. That includes having the disconnect off since you may want to remove a battery and keep the traielr powered. By having the battery disconnect off, there will be no power to the battery cables with the battery removed.

[JRHERE]

Interesting. Never noticed it before. With the battery master right at the door, I inadvertently left the range hood light on. No problem. Switched the master off and the light was still on. No problem at all. Never paid attention...at my age that ain't special..
Thanks!

[jimmoore13]

I think the OP, TravelDad, mentioned somewhere along the way that his NoBo has solar. Forgive me if I misread, but I was skimming the email notifications.

If that's the case, please note, TravelDad, that you do NOT want to disconnect the battery IF SOLAR IS CONNECTED. Solar charge controllers become very unhappy when they don't have a load to complete the feedback loop necessary to manage power from the panel(s). A factory-installed solar system may be different, but it would be very wise to read your documentation to verify.

Quick-and-Dirty disconnect? Throw a blanket or sheet of cardboard over the panel for short interruptions. For longer interruptions, you can disconnect the connectors at the gland on the roof, or you can remove the panel-to-charge controller wires from the charge controller. Use wire nuts or electrical tape to secure the wire ends. Note that most panels provide about 18 volts and roughly 5 amps at full tilt boogie. It's safe to handle the wires, but it would be bad...as in almost car battery bad...to short them. And typical panels have diodes on the back to ensure DC power from the panel. While it's unlikely, a dead short in full sun might damage those diodes.

On the issue of converteres/chargers and shore power. Most converter/chargers can survive no battery...and supply 12 volts to the coach...with the battery disconnected. Unlike the solar charge controller, while the battery DOES provide feedback to the converter/charger, the converter/charger can survive without that feedback.

Lastly on shore power. Remember what I call the "rule of 10." 120 volts only needs to push 1/10 the amps to achieve the same "power." 12 volts must push 10 times the amps to achieve the same power. So, while plugged into a typical 15 amp or 20 amp shore power source...your house's outdoor outlet...your converter/charger can supply 30 amps of 12 volt charge to the battery while consuming only 3 amps at 120 volts. Setting aside the fact that "bulk" (high rate) charging doesn't last very long, your home outlet can supply all your rig needs effortlessly...EXCEPT if you try to run the AC or the microwave. Most AC units require more than 20 amps to start successfully, and most microwaves will suck damned near 15 amps at launch. What this means: If you're running the micro, and then the fridge tries to start while you're on a 15 amp shore power supply, something...like the breaker in your house...might have to "blow." Let's say your ornery uncle is staying in the RV cuz you can't stand having him in the house. Be sure to supply the rig from a 20 amp source, and connect with, at minimum, a 12/3 extension cord that is as short as possible...no more than 100 feet. That way, Wicked Uncle Ernie can have the game on, nuke some hot pockets, and the fridge can start when he opens the door to grab his 6th beer. "

Back to the point. When connected to shore power for storage purposes, any old outdoor outlet (properly wired) will do. The RV's loads will be small, and within an hour or so of connecting, the converter/charger will step down to a much lower charge rate...eventually dropping into a battery maintainer mode like a trickle charge.

Last point. When connected to shore power, ALL 12 volt loads are, in reality, drawn from the converter/charger...as in your shore power source. The battery may buffer that load somewhat, but prove it to yourself. Plug into shore power with EVERYTHING in the rig off. Now, turn on all the 12 volt loads you can find...especially the water pump which typically draws about 7 amps at 12 volts. Add in the furnace, about 10 amps, and you get the picture. There's a very good chance that the cooling fan in the converter will come on, because it's being called upon to replace all that 12 volt power you are consuming...especially if the battery needs charging, too. The cooling fan comes on because the converter/charger is pushing some serious amps at the battery...and into the coach 12 volt systems.

Power management is "everything" for a boondocker. The sooner you get up to speed on this, the sooner your boondocking adventures will NOT suffer as a result of not knowing what's going on.

Handy tool to help you understand power, volts, amps: https://www.rapidtables.com/calc/ele...alculator.html
Rapid Tables has handy online calculators for almost everything. For example, how to convert BTU to electric values: https://www.rapidtables.com/convert/...U_to_Watt.html (helpful in my diatribe on power in propane).

Wrapping up: if you have solar, absolutely leave your battery connected. When it comes to a factory install, you need not worry about the position of the battery disconnect, because the factory will not run the solar charge system through that disconnect. It charges, and it's NOT a load drawing power from the battery. If you install your own, however, you must be sure you either keep the battery connected, or that you have a way to disconnect the panel(s) from the charge controller if you intend to remove the battery.

Also note that the state of the battery disconnect switch MAY BE IMPORTANT if you hook into a system that is "pre-wired for solar"...as they say. My hookup inside VERY LIKELY ties into the two main wires between the battery and the converter/charger. This is not a problem until you throw the disconnect switch. Then you need to know very precisely how the coach is wired...and it's likely that throwing the disconnect will remove your battery from the solar charge controller...a potential disaster for the charge controller. In that case, it's incumbent on you to install switches between the panel(s) and charge controller, pull the charge controller and remove those wires, or tarp over the panel(s).

Knowledge is power...pun intended.

[Blue Timber]

You have a battery disconnect? Did you install it or was there one on the trailer? I have a 2020 16.2 and I don't think I have a battery disconnect. Definitely wasn't told about one. All the little USB lights run down the battery after about 2 weeks so I leave it plugged in.

[JRHERE]

Originally Posted by Blue Timber

You have a battery disconnect? Did you install it or was there one on the trailer? I have a 2020 16.2 and I don't think I have a battery disconnect. Definitely wasn't told about one. All the little USB lights run down the battery after about 2 weeks so I leave it plugged in.

Install a marine type battery disconnect (master switch, Perko type) switch near the battery. They are weatherproof and not grossly expensive. Easy to install. Could mount to the battery box side as long as hardware doesn't touch the battery. Wiring is 'surface mount.'
Our cheapo converters are not designed for eternal use. There's more running than USB charge ports...radio memory, lp leak detector, tv amp and that light inside the compartment you forgot to switch off. And electronics with key fobs.
Batteries need a rest. Even with the "smart" charging features, my WFCO keeps the battery at 13.6v. That seems constant float. Charging every other month for a resting 12.6 plus or prox is good enough. If a disconnected battery won't remain above 12.4 or so for a couple months, it's aging. Not good for boondocking. OK for pole camping.

[MontanaWill]

I have run my fridge overnight on 12 volts and it runs down the car battery. You can do this while driving but do not forget to switch to propane overnight and disconnect the truck cable.