New 2020 19.8... what does solar ready actually mean? - Page 2

Montanaclan · 04-28-2020, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach

I have a 19.5 with the MC4 connector on the roof, and I traced the wiring when working on a solar system.

The others are correct in that there are just wires from the roof to the battery.

Thanks for that info... do you recall what gauge wire was supplied in the pre-wiring? 10ga?

Glad you found a portable system that works well - seems like a good fit. And similar to what I'm interested in, minus the portable part. Also, are you happy with the Victron items? They seem to be reasonably priced.

formerFR · 04-28-2020, 12:29 PM

my concern for most who are 'considering' a solar 'system' to help keep them 'off-grid' is that the 'storage' needs, the REAL need, gets lost in the enamored 'solar' desires. It's true that finding a 'place' for the batteries can be a question, and how to 'keep' them close to the inverter, but overnight concerns for power are never going to be answered with solar, but with batteries. Without the battery amp hours of storage, no number of solar panels or wattage is going to really help.
Also, we make a lot of assumption that the sun is almost 'always' available everyday... and missing 'some' of a day due to cloud cover might not break the bank, but several days of clouds and rain could render the solar array 'system' almost useless.
You'll need a generator, regardless, even if you don't really want to use it much - you won't have to if the sun obliges, but it will be VERY useful, and critical even, during the times when it just is not going to be 'one of those weeks' of great sunlight, especially during the winter months.

Concentrate on building a larger amp hour storage of batteries, even if you can't have all those in the 'same' place in/on the RV - you can always carry them in your tow vehicle, then attach them when you arrive, even if they sit outside on the ground, or under the trailer... then your solar will make a lot more 'cents'...

HeloSNA24 · 04-28-2020, 12:51 PM

Yes I plan on securing the additional batteries in back of pickup sealed up which will seemingly be very close to the Hitch via wires to parallel to the main battery and solar setup.

Montanaclan · 04-28-2020, 12:59 PM

I agree on the key part being the storage... the battery bank. That's exactly why I go to the trouble size a system intelligently. I don't want properly size my generating ability (the panels) and then undersize storage (batteries) and still end up in the problem of not being able to run my cpap and furnace through the night.

But I disagree about the generator. I don't want one. I've had them before and used them for living in a camper trailer when doing biological work for months at a time. I'm tired of hauling fuel and changing oil. And the last thing I want when doing the off grid stuff my family likes is to run the generator. Many are fine with it; we don't want the noise, even the quieter ones.

I also don't want to haul extra batteries around - I'll happily scale down my power use rather than rely on hauling extra batteries or a generator.

Plus, I've folded my three kids into this decision and discussion and research - particularly since we're home and augmenting online school assignments with homeschooling projects. My kids are 16, 14, and 10. I asked them what they thought, and they want clean power. They don't get why we would opt to lay out cash for ANOTHER gas powered, (somewhat) noisy, greenhouse gas emitting machine (in addition to a snowblower, a lawnmower, a pressure washer, etc.). Yes, we've talked about the metals and resources that go into batteries, and they point out the recycle-ability and reconditioning of much of the materials. So, we as a family have decided to pass on the generator, and to thoughtfully plan on solar... We recognize that we won't be using the microwave much; in the summer we will not have AC and may actually feel hot. So we'll swim or swing in a shady hammock, and nap in the quiet shade of a tree ... with no generator nearby. And we can have some small USB fans on still nights in our beds. Or in the winter, I may actually have to get chilly and pull my down sleeping bag a little tighter.

But yes... battery bank is critical for a well designed system. So too is the decision making process about power needs.

HeloSNA24 · 04-28-2020, 01:04 PM

https://www.etrailer.com/Accessories...xoCl1IQAvD_BwE

pretty sure these are the pre-wired GOPower setup in our RVs.

10 guage

formerFR · 04-28-2020, 02:05 PM

While we all want free, quiet, and 'non emitting' power sources, the reality is that the thought is fraught with the 'realities' of life - you and your wife, as adults, may can make that decision, understanding the possible 'endurance' you may have to take on for a few days when the sun is not shining, or the clouds and rain are present, but the kids may not quite can handle that the same way - especially when they have no power for their games, consoles, tvs, cell phones, tablets, and devices they have come to love.
And not just 'some' loss of power, or 'some' loss of games, but NO power and NO games and NO lights and NO furnace and NO radio and NO communications with the outside world... unless, of course, you get into your 'emitting' gas-powered 'generator' with wheels, and go home.

I think it's admirable, but it's not realistic... though I'm sure you'll try to prove us...well, anyway, 'real' camping is uncomfortable, nowadays. ENJOY!

Montanaclan · 04-28-2020, 02:16 PM

I appreciate your perspectives. But it will work for us. We don't bring video games to the mountains. We bring Uno and cribbage. I'm a pretty practical guy, and try my best to balance idealism with realism. Any, this thread is not for defending a philosophy, it's about building a system for the needs that I've scoped out carefully. Worst case scenario as you describe, and I hook up my pickup to the batteries with jumper cables and top them off, watching my ammeter and battery voltage. If we plan lean and build a little fatter than that, we'll be fine. Thanks for your thoughts.

formerFR · 04-28-2020, 02:27 PM

yes, you'll be fine, though I sounded like one of those 'it's not possible' persons, but those who know what to expect and plan, at least mentally for those 'days', will get through it with few problems... you've thought this through and I'm sure 'ya'll' will enjoy yourselves!

pcsdpo · 05-07-2020, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach

I have a 19.5 with the MC4 connector on the roof, and I traced the wiring when working on a solar system.

The others are correct in that there are just wires from the roof to the battery.

Thanks for the info on the NoBo 19.5. We purchased a 2020 model in August.
I agree with the bad choice for the controller location so far from the battery. Somewhere in this post they indicated 10 awg wires which would account for the "30 Amp" designation on the sticker. Do the wires run all the way to the batteries in the front, or does the (-) get grounded to the frame somewhere along the way? I should have paid more attention when I had to re-do the battery wiring when I added a 2nd battery. It is still a mess, but I'm waiting for the warranty (that is basically worthless) to expire.
I plan on putting my controller in the front bay close to the batteries. I have the BlueTooth monitoring option and that seems to work fine. I currently have portable panels, but will plan on mounting permanent panels on the roof rack tracks (another "feature" that isn't really practical in my case).

Thanks,
Dan
Also a shout out to the MontanaClan. . . we could be neighbors.

Rorschach · 05-07-2020, 10:28 PM

I think the others are right and the wiring is 10g.

As for the Victron controller and battery monitor - I love them. I purchased the MPPT 50A controller so that I could add panels to my system later down the line without issue. It has Bluetooth capability so I can see the charging status from my phone.

I installed the battery monitor so that I could get a better idea of remaining power - more than the estimate available by looking at the lights on the on board meter. The battery monitor measures all draw from the battery and is more accurate than the 4 light system. It is also Bluetooth equipped. It will give an estimated time left on the battery that adjusts based on load and incoming charge. So I can look at the screen and see how long the battery has left based on the amount of power I am using. If I am drawing too much at night, I can turn stuff off.

When I tested the system out, during the day with the sun shining, I had an unlimited amount of power. But I do not have an inverter and am only using the 12v system (TV, lights, fan).

One thing to consider with your CPAP is that it probably is a 12v machine with a converter to household. If you have 12v sockets available, you can get order the 12v cable to plug it in. Save the loss from converting back and forth.

You can see the interface for the battery monitor and the solar charge controller below.

I got a 160w panel, used on CL, and was amazed at how well it worked for me. Hopefully this spring I will change out my single battery for two 6v batteries to increase my capacity, but I think that the single panel is going to be enough until I add an inverter.

dbledan · 05-07-2020, 10:28 PM

A few suggestions just to strech your battery usage a bit further.

Since you must use a humidifier with your cpap a better option is to get one that supports HumidX or HumidX Plus. There are other HME types as well but it is basically a humidity exchanger. It removes the need for the heater. Some will allow you to add them to the hose of your existing cpap. The cheaper way is to not use the humidifier. That will likely save you 5 amps or better.

That may cost a little up front but would add a lot of juice back to the battery bank by removing the heater demand. It could change the size of the system you need as well saving you money in the long run and conserving energy.

You could also use the 30A wiring from the roof with a few panels on the roof and leave a few portable ones that you set out on the ground to follow the sun. It provides the permanent mount for part and the flexability to move some throughout the day to get more sun.

Hope that helps a bit. Happy camping!

Rorschach · 05-07-2020, 10:31 PM

All About Rvs has a pretty good breakdown of the Victron battery monitor on YouTube. Worth a watch if you are considering getting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTzwXfWets8

babock · 05-07-2020, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach

I think the others are right and the wiring is 10g.

As for the Victron controller and battery monitor - I love them. I purchased the MPPT 50A controller so that I could add panels to my system later down the line without issue. It has Bluetooth capability so I can see the charging status from my phone.

I installed the battery monitor so that I could get a better idea of remaining power - more than the estimate available by looking at the lights on the on board meter. The battery monitor measures all draw from the battery and is more accurate than the 4 light system. It is also Bluetooth equipped. It will give an estimated time left on the battery that adjusts based on load and incoming charge. So I can look at the screen and see how long the battery has left based on the amount of power I am using. If I am drawing too much at night, I can turn stuff off.

When I tested the system out, during the day with the sun shining, I had an unlimited amount of power. But I do not have an inverter and am only using the 12v system (TV, lights, fan).

One thing to consider with your CPAP is that it probably is a 12v machine with a converter to household. If you have 12v sockets available, you can get order the 12v cable to plug it in. Save the loss from converting back and forth.

You can see the interface for the battery monitor and the solar charge controller below.

I got a 160w panel, used on CL, and was amazed at how well it worked for me. Hopefully this spring I will change out my single battery for two 6v batteries to increase my capacity, but I think that the single panel is going to be enough until I add an inverter.

In addition, turn on the Victron networking and the BMV sends the battery voltage measurement to the solar controller so that it can adjust its output to compensate for voltage drop.

https://www.victronenergy.com/live/v...art-networking

HeloSNA24 · 05-07-2020, 10:55 PM

So the 10 gauge wires run from the bathroom to the roof? Nothing to the battery yet correct? Also was looking at victron. Seems the way to go for adding Lithium batteries. Is it better to rewire for 8 Guage? How did you know to go with 50 amp if our system is rated for 30amps?

babock · 05-08-2020, 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeloSNA24

So the 10 gauge wires run from the bathroom to the roof? Nothing to the battery yet correct? Also was looking at victron. Seems the way to go for adding Lithium batteries. Is it better to rewire for 8 Guage? How did you know to go with 50 amp if our system is rated for 30amps?

your 30A is your 120V system. The 50A refers to the charge current going into the batteries. They are completely separate from each other.

DavidBo · 05-08-2020, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach

All About Rvs has a pretty good breakdown of the Victron battery monitor on YouTube. Worth a watch if you are considering getting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTzwXfWets8

That's an excellent monitor but doesn't come cheap. If you want a less capable but still pretty good unit for much less money this is an option. I got one and except for having to lengthen the data cable it was easy to set up and so far works quite nicely.

https://youtu.be/E6O76Okmt08

babock · 05-08-2020, 03:59 PM

Buy the new Victron Smart Shunt. $130 but you have to read everything through your phone instead of the display. I never use the display on my BMV-712 anyway.

Rorschach · 05-09-2020, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeloSNA24

So the 10 gauge wires run from the bathroom to the roof? Nothing to the battery yet correct? Also was looking at victron. Seems the way to go for adding Lithium batteries. Is it better to rewire for 8 Guage? How did you know to go with 50 amp if our system is rated for 30amps?

The wiring goes straight from the roof, down through the bathroom wall, and then up to the battery. You should see a wire attached to the battery that is labeled 'solar'. You have to install the charge controller somewhere in there. The bathroom had a recommended spot for it where you can cut the wires and put it in. I chose not to do this because it was too far from the battery.

When you wire your solar panels together, you can wire in series or in parallel. One has higher volts, the other higher amps. Wiring in series with an MPPT controller you can have higher voltage going to the charger and still use smaller gauge wire.

Babock - thanks for the info on setting the victon system to network. I did not know about that and will get it set up!

HeloSNA24 · 05-11-2020, 09:12 AM

Thanks for the tips folks!

Montanaclan · 05-15-2020, 03:50 PM

In the right rear storage, there's a flimsy stub wall that can be removed by a couple of screws. A guy can access wiring there (and the plumbing to the outdoor water supply) - including the 10 gauge wires that run from the roof MC4 connection, down through the wall, and through this spot before plunging into the frame/insulation/undercarriage. It's a good place to put my Victron 100|50 charge controller and - ultimately - a lithium battery. It would allow a 1-2' run from the controller to the battery, and my controller has built in bluetooth capability to connect to the Victron app. Noice.

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