Possible Impact from WD and Sway Bars

[Stingingfork]

Originally Posted by Qwkynuf

The wording you quote sounds to me like they are saying "If your frame is damaged by drilling holes to mount your aftermarket hitch, or if you damage the frame by utilizing too-strong spring bars, then that's on you". And that's how it should be.

Qwkynuf I agree with all that you stated but just was taken back that Curt would sell a design requiring that their sway bar attachment be drilled and bolted to the RV Frame knowing that the RV mfg. would automatically void the owner's warranty if they used it and it developed issues down the road... For a newbie I would have avoided the Curt designed hitch with sway bar had I known this would be an issue to begin with... Live and Learn I guess!

[Stingingfork]

I just came across a similar discussion of this thread on a FaceBook group labeled "No Boundaries (NOBO) RV Owners" which I had joined recently and a recent post about a denial of claims from Forest River due to someone using a weight distribution hitch and it has erupted with 130 comments so far. The lady that started the FB post posted a letter from the FR Warranty Department concerning this NoBo owners' discussion with them due to some fiberglass cracking on their NoBo after about 3 years of use with an Andersen hitch... Waiting to see if they will be able to sue FR for damages since FR doesn't clearly state these possible issues at the time of sale or have their dealers explain these possible problems could present themselves while using WD hitch systems and if they did it would probably bring a halt to their skyrocketing sales of these models for Forest River.

After searching around and trying to decide which hitch I would actually purchase I finally just received my Blue Ox hitch in this week and invested over $700 in it. After I towed the 19.6 home from the RV dealer without a weight distribution system I can't imagine having to tow continually on my trips and not be able to use a WD hitch. Even with my F250 my unloaded NoBo on the return trip home made me uneasy with the lighter feeling front end while driving back. I couldn't imagine what it would feel like with a lighter truck or SUV as my tow vehicle...


I'm also attaching another FR denial clarification due to owners using a WD hitch systems within that same post to another NoBo owner...

[DES-1]

Originally Posted by Stingingfork

After I towed the 19.6 home from the RV dealer without a weight distribution system I can't imagine having to tow continually on my trips and not be able to use a WD hitch. Even with my F250 my unloaded NoBo on the return trip home made me uneasy with the lighter feeling front end while driving back. I couldn't imagine what it would feel like with a lighter truck or SUV as my tow vehicle...

Don't get too revved up about what you read on NOBO FB groups, IMO, 80%+ have no idea how to independently think and analyze. Learn your products and use per the manual and you won't have to listen to those clowns. I view those groups as a jumping-on point for some quick basic knowledge (which is repeated endlessly as new people come on board). But there is scads of misinformation and biased opinion. No doubt the WD controversy serves as perfect troll bait for those who can't think on their own. I used to be in all the NOBO groups.

Now, regarding your limited towing experience - your 'unloaded' NOBO will of course tow COMPLETELY differently than a typically loaded one. When we go out, we are fully loaded including fridge and water, 2 full 20lb LP tanks, and 2 6v golf cart batteries. We have set up the rig with the WDH for this load configuration. On trips home we are substantially lighter as all the water is gone and food/LP consumed. We do notice a slight more sway depending on wind conditions, but it still performs well even at 70-75mph. If you read your WDH manual, they will tell you you should tweak the setup for the difference in the load, even if it seems minor to you.

When we bought our trailer and WDH, a kind customer informed me those $700 WDH's are mostly a waste of money, especially on a lightweight trailer which the NOBO is. We have 3 years on our E2 WDH and it seems perfectly adequate. Thank goodness I eventually read the WDH manual cover-to-cover...I found out that it is internet B.S. that you have to disconnect the bars to back up!

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by DES-1

Don't get too revved up about what you read on NOBO FB groups, IMO, 80%+ have no idea how to independently think and analyze. Learn your products and use per the manual and you won't have to listen to those clowns. I view those groups as a jumping-on point for some quick basic knowledge (which is repeated endlessly as new people come on board). But there is scads of misinformation and biased opinion. No doubt the WD controversy serves as perfect troll bait for those who can't think on their own. I used to be in all the NOBO groups.

Now, regarding your limited towing experience - your 'unloaded' NOBO will of course tow COMPLETELY differently than a typically loaded one. When we go out, we are fully loaded including fridge and water, 2 full 20lb LP tanks, and 2 6v golf cart batteries. We have set up the rig with the WDH for this load configuration. On trips home we are substantially lighter as all the water is gone and food/LP consumed. We do notice a slight more sway depending on wind conditions, but it still performs well even at 70-75mph. If you read your WDH manual, they will tell you you should tweak the setup for the difference in the load, even if it seems minor to you.

When we bought our trailer and WDH, a kind customer informed me those $700 WDH's are mostly a waste of money, especially on a lightweight trailer which the NOBO is. We have 3 years on our E2 WDH and it seems perfectly adequate. Thank goodness I eventually read the WDH manual cover-to-cover...I found out that it is internet B.S. that you have to disconnect the bars to back up!

Why I don't do Facebook at all. It's a moron heavy environment, a good reflection of American society these days. And yes, that backing up thing does not apply to the e2 WDH's, but it may apply for other brands/designs from what I've read. It is disconcerting that Forest River themselves is saying not to use a WDH at all though.

[DES-1]

Originally Posted by NJKris

Why I don't do Facebook at all. It's a moron heavy environment, a good reflection of American society these days. And yes, that backing up thing does not apply to the e2 WDH's, but it may apply for other brands/designs from what I've read. It is disconcerting that Forest River themselves is saying not to use a WDH at all though.

Good point on the other brand WDH's.

FR likely in a position where they can't certify people are using trailers/WDH's properly so they have to wash their hands of the matter. But it's crazy, everyone knows they work and seem to be a necessity. Perhaps a good reason to buy the trailer/WDH together so the dealer has some skin in the game (hopefully!).

[Stingingfork]

Originally Posted by DES-1

Don't get too revved up about what you read on NOBO FB groups, IMO, 80%+ have no idea how to independently think and analyze. Learn your products and use per the manual and you won't have to listen to those clowns. I view those groups as a jumping-on point for some quick basic knowledge (which is repeated endlessly as new people come on board). But there is scads of misinformation and biased opinion. No doubt the WD controversy serves as perfect troll bait for those who can't think on their own. I used to be in all the NOBO groups.

Now, regarding your limited towing experience - your 'unloaded' NOBO will of course tow COMPLETELY differently than a typically loaded one. When we go out, we are fully loaded including fridge and water, 2 full 20lb LP tanks, and 2 6v golf cart batteries. We have set up the rig with the WDH for this load configuration. On trips home we are substantially lighter as all the water is gone and food/LP consumed. We do notice a slight more sway depending on wind conditions, but it still performs well even at 70-75mph. If you read your WDH manual, they will tell you you should tweak the setup for the difference in the load, even if it seems minor to you.

When we bought our trailer and WDH, a kind customer informed me those $700 WDH's are mostly a waste of money, especially on a lightweight trailer which the NOBO is. We have 3 years on our E2 WDH and it seems perfectly adequate. Thank goodness I eventually read the WDH manual cover-to-cover...I found out that it is internet B.S. that you have to disconnect the bars to back up!

DES-1, thanks for the reply but how do you explain the responses from the Forest River Warranty Department as documented on their post where they stated plainly that any use of a WD/Sway system (or as they call it an Unauthorized Alteration) would void the warranty on the frame. This is the second time I've seen a statement such as this from the FR Warranty Dept. Reps.
Also as a note like you mentioned that most of the WD/Sway systems that I recently looked at do allow you to back up without removing the bars such as the Blue Ox, Andersen, and your E2 but the first one that I purchased early in the game was a Curt and it did not and sadly I didn't have the experience to recognize that as a major drawback but I'm trying to be a quick learner... That was a $300 mistake that I will take a loss and try to sell this Spring.

Btw what is your loaded tongue weight when you typically travel and which Fastway E2 system did you purchase. You also mentioned that the E2 works great going down with a full load (including full fresh water tank) but not so well controlling sway on the way back with a lighter load, is that just due to the overall lighter weight of your TT than the brand of your WD/Sway system that you use?

[Inciter]

Interesting Listening to the Supreme Court arguments to Covid Mandate live, this thread sounds similar.
Good on everyone...

[DES-1]

How do I explain it? It's a matter of the frame and trailer company protecting themselves from a class action lawsuit. Personally I have no knowledge of the frame and trailer ratings and how much stress they can stand. But to me, the FR policy makes sense, have to protect the business from things out of their control. As an analogy, look at your trailer's bumper, it's barely adequate to hold a spare tire mount. And yet the public adds all other types of mounts, sometimes after adding third party reinforcement kits, sometimes not. Do you think FR should assume any liability for bumper failures? The frame manufacturer should be ashamed of that bumper, - but 'everyone' wants a lightweight rig you can tow with a uni-body midsize suv.

I think you misinterpreted what I said about towing empty, we notice an increase in sway but it is so minor and manageable that we can drive safely at the posted speed limits. iirc, Our E2 is the 600lb round bar.

[Stingingfork]

Originally Posted by DES-1

How do I explain it? It's a matter of the frame and trailer company protecting themselves from a class action lawsuit. Personally I have no knowledge of the frame and trailer ratings and how much stress they can stand. But to me, the FR policy makes sense, have to protect the business from things out of their control. As an analogy, look at your trailer's bumper, it's barely adequate to hold a spare tire mount. And yet the public adds all other types of mounts, sometimes after adding third party reinforcement kits, sometimes not. Do you think FR should assume any liability for bumper failures? The frame manufacturer should be ashamed of that bumper, - but 'everyone' wants a lightweight rig you can tow with a uni-body midsize suv.

I think you misinterpreted what I said about towing empty, we notice an increase in sway but it is so minor and manageable that we can drive safely at the posted speed limits. iirc, Our E2 is the 600lb round bar.

The only thing is the FR Warranty Dept. stance is that using the WD/Sway systems will void the Frame Warranty but the Owner's Manual posted on the FR site for the NoBo/Ibex states: Forest River recommends you consult with your Forest River dealer for assistance in selecting the proper hitch, weight distribution (for trailers) and sway control systems (for trailers) for your application.

Those dealers recommend and sell the WD/Sway systems for all of these models... Does any of that makes sense???

Btw what was your tongue weight when loaded for you to choose the 600lb bars?

[doc73]

I was just watching a YouTube video from a few months ago about someone who owned a jayco I believe it was. They were traveling through a construction zone and the front of their lippard A-frame basically snapped off. They were told by warranty and lippert that the warranty would not cover it because they used weight distribution while in a construction zone or off-road? So their stance was you have to remove your weight distribution whenever you enter into a construction zone.....

[Guspech750]

Originally Posted by doc73

I was just watching a YouTube video from a few months ago about someone who owned a jayco I believe it was. They were traveling through a construction zone and the front of their lippard A-frame basically snapped off. They were told by warranty and lippert that the warranty would not cover it because they used weight distribution while in a construction zone or off-road? So their stance was you have to remove your weight distribution whenever you enter into a construction zone.....

WTF

[DES-1]

Originally Posted by Stingingfork

Btw what was your tongue weight when loaded for you to choose the 600lb bars?

Dealer (Couches) selected based on my original tow vehicle, 07 Suburban 1500, and the trailer, 19.7. I think they nailed it based on our towing experience. We've since moved it over to our Expedition Max, having to buy another shank to get the trailer perfectly level.