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Old 04-25-2021, 07:36 PM   #1
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Replace tires?

Our 2018 NoBo 19.5 still sways.

We have placed all items toward front of trailer while traveling.
Added water to fresh water tank
Added sway bar and weight distribution to hitch
We tow with a Ford F-150

We still have original off road tires on the camper. Has anyone replaced them with road tires and found the camper tows better?

Thanking you in advance
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Old 04-25-2021, 09:34 PM   #2
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Has the rig ever towed properly or is this a new issue? Are the TV and trailer tire pressures correct set and periodically checked? We have the Same Cooper tires on our 19.7 as it's an early 2019 (factory put cheaper tires on after mid 2019).

Wouldn't the issue be more likely to be caused by an improperly setup TV/trailer or overloaded/improperly loaded? Is your WDH adjusted per the instruction booklet? If the tires are in good condition and properly inflated, those would be the last thing to check on my list.
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Old 04-25-2021, 09:48 PM   #3
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Has the rig ever towed properly or is this a new issue? Are the TV and trailer tire pressures correct set and periodically checked? We have the Same Cooper tires on our 19.7 as it's an early 2019 (factory put cheaper tires on after mid 2019).

Wouldn't the issue be more likely to be caused by an improperly setup TV/trailer or overloaded/improperly loaded? Is your WDH adjusted per the instruction booklet? If the tires are in good condition and properly inflated, those would be the last thing to check on my list.
I have to agree. What year is your 150, it should easily pull this trailer. What is payload on your truck.? My first thought would be improper set up of WDH; is everything level?
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Old 04-26-2021, 08:42 AM   #4
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Don't know what "off road" tires means. Are they ST tires? If so, LT tires om the trailer would not reduce sway, but could make it worse as ST tires generally have stiffer sidewalls. You need to get the rig weighed and first make sure your tongue weight is within the recommended range of 9-14% of the gross trailer weight. Check also the TV tires. My 2004 F150 came with P-rated tires. If yours came with P-rated, going to an LT tire could reduce sway on the truck.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:34 AM   #5
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I have a 19.5 with an Equalizer and an F150 and it tows great. I changed vehicles recently and do not have my hitch set correctly right now, so I towed it home the other day without the sway control being used. I had high winds and it still did fine.


I think I would have the WDH install double checked. With that trailer and your truck you should have no issues, so I would suspect you might need to adjust the WDH.
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Old 05-01-2021, 08:45 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SueRoeske View Post
Our 2018 NoBo 19.5 still sways.

We have placed all items toward front of trailer while traveling.
Added water to fresh water tank
Added sway bar and weight distribution to hitch
We tow with a Ford F-150

We still have original off road tires on the camper. Has anyone replaced them with road tires and found the camper tows better?

Thanking you in advance
Couple of ideas. Have you weighed your set up? Do you have too much weight in front of the axle? 60-40% is recommended. I would also say maybe adjusting the WDH would help.

Doubt changing tires on the trailer would affect sway that much..

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Old 05-01-2021, 08:49 AM   #7
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I agree with most redo your WD with everything as close to possible for when you load. I am confused though loading everything up front is usually done to add more weight on the hitch and the WD basically ( not exactly) does the opposite. So why is everything up front
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Old 05-01-2021, 09:01 AM   #8
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I have a similar setup. I also have the aggressive tread off road Westlake tires. No sway. Important to note that your trailer is a single axle, like mine. This puts a LOT of weight on tongue. Maybe more than your WDH is rated for (if using spring bars, it is important to get bars that mostly closely match your usual tongue weight). Too much sway control is bad, as is too little. I would bring your setup loaded as you have been for travel, and get to a weigh station. Make sure you are pretty balanced loadwise on the trailer tires, and pay particular attention to your tongue weight, and what spring bars on WDH are rated for.
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Old 05-03-2021, 02:55 PM   #9
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Swaying camping

We just returned from OK to Wisconsin.
On the trip to OK we had winds and I had to drop to 60 at times to keep camper from swaying.
On return trip we had a tail wind then no wind and I could drive at 70. It did sway a little.

The Truck is a Ford-F150 4x4 Supercab 2.7L V6 Ecoboost engine
We will review the weight distribution but really we travel light. A case of water and grill under the bed, Tools, hose, electrical box and boards for leveling in front storage. We have food in the refrig. In the middle section a few cooking and eating dishes and dry goods above sofa. Some clothes in wardrobe.

The trailer swayed from the time we bought it. Sold the Highlander and replaced it with the Ford F150 that should tow 7500 lbs.
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Old 05-03-2021, 03:55 PM   #10
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You still haven't indicated you got weighed to determine if the hitch weight is correct, and again, do you have P-rated tires on the truck that should be changed out to LT? There's always going to be a bit of sway but you can minimize it with a proper set-up.
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Old 05-03-2021, 06:41 PM   #11
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The tires are LT.
I'm trying to find a place where I can measure the hitch weight and also the weight on each wheel. Being the camper is swaying it would indicate the weight is light. But what more can we put forward in the camper to make it heavier. We pack in front storage area, under bed, some items on the narrow sides of the bed and put water in the tank.

If the axle isn't square would that cause sway or would something else be happening during travel. Tires do not show different wear.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:15 PM   #12
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Sounds like a virtual certainty the WDH isn't adjusted right. Truck should sit level and within an inch or so of the height when unhitched. Trailer frame and tongue should be parallel to the ground. In other words, the completed rig should be extremely close to level, the front of the truck should experience no rise and the back no sag.
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Old 05-03-2021, 08:26 PM   #13
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So several have noted that ST tires on the trailer and LT tires on the tow vehicle...
your answers to those questions have not been obvious

What brand ST tires on the trailer? I have noted on many threads that the Castlerock tires have paper thin sidewalls. I suggest some GY Endurance tires to compare to.

THe camper tires most likely need to be pumped to 50# and the LT tires on the truck 40-45#.

LT and ST trailer tires have stiffer sidewalls making them resistant to sway...

after that there should be a slight rear-ward angle to the ball on the tow vehicle and when loaded the tv and camper should be fairly level, with the contact point ( the ball) being in a plane with the tongue and the tv hitch...

It is pretty hard not to have correct forward weight on a single axle trailer as they are nose heavy to begin with.
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Old 05-03-2021, 09:41 PM   #14
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Sounds like a virtual certainty the WDH isn't adjusted right. Truck should sit level and within an inch or so of the height when unhitched. Trailer frame and tongue should be parallel to the ground. In other words, the completed rig should be extremely close to level, the front of the truck should experience no rise and the back no sag.
2X. This is the place to start. Load the trailer and properly air your tires and then adjust your WDH. Even minor adjustments to the WDH can make a big difference when towing.
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:01 AM   #15
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The truck and camper do set level when hitched together.
The trailer tires are Cooper Discoverer Armo-Tek3, Carcuss Construction LT215/85R16 STT Pro
The truck tires are Hankook Dynapro AT2 275/55R20 113T
We had local trailer company install Weight Distribution Trunnion Style 600 lbs max
Sway Control Kit
Does that help?
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:31 AM   #16
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Quote:
The truck and camper do set level when hitched together.
The trailer tires are Cooper Discoverer Armo-Tek3, Carcuss Construction LT215/85R16 STT Pro
The truck tires are Hankook Dynapro AT2 275/55R20 113T
We had local trailer company install Weight Distribution Trunnion Style 600 lbs max
Sway Control Kit
Does that help?
Well with all that information you should have zero sway issues...

then I re-read your original post...
Quote:
We still have original off road tires on the camper. Has anyone replaced them with road tires and found the camper tows better?
now that I look at the tread on those trailer tires and wonder if that is not the cause of some instability on a single axle trailer....
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Old 05-04-2021, 11:52 AM   #17
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Well with all that information you should have zero sway issues...

then I re-read your original post...


now that I look at the tread on those trailer tires and wonder if that is not the cause of some instability on a single axle trailer....

Unless defective, it's not the tires. These are about as good as it get if you want off road capability.

Our trailer has it's original tires, the same Cooper Discoverer STT Pro Armor-tek3. They are heavy duty. We've never had an issue with them, about 5k miles to date. FR sent an update bulletin to lower pressure from 80 psi to 65, in an attempt to stop trailer from shaking itself apart We originally ran at 80 but now inflate to 70ish.

By the way, these tire have a speed rating of "Q" = 100mph. FR stopped using these tires which I beleive was a cost cutting measure.
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Old 05-04-2021, 03:05 PM   #18
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...

The following elaborate situation may not be your problem, but just in case...

To me it sounds like your particular camper has an unusual problem since other folks with the same model do not. Let us suppose this is true.

I would look into the alignment of your axle. The axle should allow the wheels to be perfectly parallel. There may not be an ideal perfect axle but it should be very close and I will tell you how to check. I apologize, it will be a long, rather thorough post because I don't know how experienced the reader is.

First, what is the history of this camper? Since it does look like a narrow off-road model on the internet, has it been off-road? Is it possible anyone hit a wheel against a tall curb-like ledge and bent a spindle? Or has the axle been submerged while crossing a stream in rough country? Any ordinary warm vehicle bearing that has been submerged needs to immediately be packed with new grease and, if not, will rust and wear rapidly. Bearings naturally get warm when they turn.

An ordinary warm bearing housing that gets submerged in cool water immediately sucks water inside because the warm air contracts in the sudden cold. As an example, boat trailer wheels have special spring-loaded housing provisions that maintain pressure inside the housing so that owners can back into the water to unload. When this mechanism fails to work is when you see boats and trailers parked along freeways with an entire wheel missing. Bad bearings get really hot... red hot.

Concerning the axles:
The first thing to do is jack your camper axle safely up and check both wheel bearings for play. Anytime there is any play in wheel bearings the wheels automatically toe outward from rolling resistance when the unit is towed. Being toed out is an invitation to wildly bad tracking that almost certainly will result in sway. Usually the tires will reveal this, in being worn on the inside edge of the tire, also with a bit of feathering on the edge of tread grooves parallel to the direction of towing. Grossly too much toe-in can do the same thing, but with the opposite wear pattern and tracking is not quite as sensitive to minor toe-in.

The general correct setting for wheel bearings is just barely after all play is removed, by the bearings being in good shape with fresh grease and set tightened to just beyond any play, by adjusting the spindle nut. The spindle nut is not tightened like an ordinary bolt and may be just barely beyond finger tight to remove all play. The bearings are usually tapered to allow this fine adjustment. They are kept from loosening themselves, by wire cotter keys that lock the slotted castle shaped nut from turning loose on their own.

Once it is established the bearings are set tight enough not to wobble, you can check your wheel alignment.

While both wheels are still safely up in the air, by being just barely not touching the ground, you can wipe the dust off the tires by spinning them by hand and holding a damp paper towel against the tread. In particular, clean a rib near the center all the way around. Then, while still spinning the tire, hold a ball-point pen against the clean rib by resting your hand on the ground. Any such line will do as long as your hand doesn't allow it to waver sideways. This will draw a shiny, fine black line evenly all around the tire.

Now, with a tape measure, measure the distance between the lines in front of the tires versus in back of the tires. If the tires are both aimed exactly straight ahead, this distance should be exactly the same, front and back. If the measurement shows that there is a slight discrepancy, say 1/8 inch difference, it is preferable that the wheels be slightly toed in on the front measurement. This is because there is that rolling resistance which is always trying to spread them to steer apart and yet, there is just enough slight give in the steel assembly so that this is actually so. Therefore, when very slightly toed-in, the wheels straighten out when underway.

If you don't wish to check the axle yourself, it is my understanding that some commercial truck shops that work on commercial trailers can do the work, including bending bent-axles straight again. Ask about cost up front.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Trivia:
I learned this the hard way when I bought a new pick-up with the wheels maladjusted from the factory. The wheels were toed out in front and the new truck wore it's new front tires out in no time. I took it to a chain store for new tires and alignment, who then insisted the alignment was ok. These new tires wore out shortly. Next, pre-new tires, I took it to the truck dealer who said it was ok... again. Overall, I wore out several sets of new tires in short order.

Finally I took it to the most revered frame shop in my little town, who fixed extreme misalignment on badly bent vehicles... who said it was ok. Frustrated, I went home and immediately used the method above in my driveway and found the wheel alignment badly maladjusted as toed out about 11/32nds. (???)

After I "crudely" set the toe-in on my truck, it quit ruining tires, steered considerably better and was just fine for many miles. To this day, I have no idea why all the pro alignment shops didn't catch the problem, except I guess they just trusted their complicated machines... which must usually work ok... one would assume. And yes, you can, and maybe should, check all your problem vehicles this way. If done with care, I regard it as fool-proof.

In my opinion, when something is not worn out, bad toe settings are probably 95% of chronic misalignment, steering, wear and handling problems. The rest of the complaints are mostly too much, or rarely not enough, caster. If the factory specs don't work, something else is wrong.

New vehicles are usually different. They can be misaligned, but often suffer wandering, from both new tires and stiff steering. Tires sometimes take a few hundred miles to break-in and new steering stays stiff from a few thousand to many more miles, especially if a new parts installation on some trucks is done out of sequence.

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Old 05-06-2021, 03:01 PM   #19
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...

This is a rather longer post yet. My apologies.

A couple of kind folks sent a message that they thought my above post was useful. A very good question came up about the difficulty of finding a shop that could properly do the work of checking RV trailer alignment. Information like this does seem to be suitable for a forum like this.

I saw a reference on another RV forum, to employing commercial truck shops quite some years ago, so that is what I suggested here.

Perhaps it would seem that a pro shop should be used so that the axle can be straightened if needed. This is something a person could do (taking some pre-cautions) in their own driveway if necessary. I outline this in the next section.

If it is difficult to find a reliable mechanical shop that has done such evaluation work, a person might print out how I did it and ask if the shop would consider doing that. I think most mechanics would recognize that such a basic method (that such as I used) should be suitable if no other quicker method is available.

Perhaps an RV dealer would have a mechanic that would like to try it. There is almost a certainty that such an RV need, though rare, exists. The RV management may be less than enthusiastic to try an amateur scheme, but if any hands-on mechanic is like I was when I was young, they are eager to learn... on their own time if need be.

Another possible experienced source might be a cargo trailer dealer, since many cargo trailers are used in rough, off-road country and may eventually need this sort of alignment.

The subject of learning brings up other possible avenue, that of approaching a local mechanics (or body repair) school to see if any students would like the experience. Many of these schools bring in outside work for practice. I'm not so sure fundamentals are taught much any more, but an open minded instructor might recognize the value. Many mechanics are taught more to be machine operators than persistent innovators.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Straightening an RV axle:
I believe it is possible for a home owner to do this in their own driveway if they need to.

In all honesty, I haven't needed to do this yet, but I believe the trick is to use a hydraulic jack with a strong chain loop running under the jack, while the chain is also wrapped around the axle on either side of the jack. It wouldn't hurt to wear eye protection in case the chain slips.

Pumping the jack cylinder out will pull, and bend, the axle towards the jack bottom on both sides, via the chain, while pushing the center section (the "hump" of a wrongful bend) of the axle the other way. A machine shop would probably remove the axle and put it (the "hump" of a wrongful bend) under a hydraulic press to achieve the same thing... supposing they had a press.

Trivia:
I actually did have a machine shop straighten a slightly bent inner drive axle from a damaged straight differential/axle housing. It only took minutes and a couple bucks to bend it back. I used it to roll a modified sports car around in my home shop. My plan was to replace the axle when the hotrod was to actually be driven, since these type hardened axles are somewhat brittle and breakage could mean a wheel coming off.

The exterior axles used for RV's are generally softer mild steel (like nails) and can be safely used after minor straightening. The RV trailer spindles are hardened and usually welded on the ends of the softer axle tube or U channel.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure how all the automotive pro's align what's known as "straight axles" and I had simply devised my own fundamental method when it was needed. So there likely may be other ways to check to insure trailer axles are as straight as they are supposed to be, perhaps by just using specific equipment designed for such work. That is something a commercial truck shop might actually own since they likely work on trailers too. From my experience, it's important that the compromises and limitations of specialized equipment, meant to speed up the process, are well understood, calibrated and work as intended.

For folks further interested in checking their own toe alignment, there are a couple of modifications needed when the suspension is not a, "straight axle". Many suspensions today are, "independent suspensions".

Checking toe adjustments on independent suspensions using my ink-line method requires that the steering suspension be compressed as though it is still sitting on the ground. One RV example would be that of motorhome suspension. There are some 4 wheel drive RV's that may have a straight axle, and of course many HD tow vehicles do. But most motorhomes have independent suspension on the front steering axle.

Independent suspension needs to be compressed when measured because the arms that transfer steering sometimes change length and cause some self-steering when the wheel spindle suspension travels up and down from hitting bumps. One can imagine this by thinking of one's arms drooped down by their side and the hands are close together. When one raises their arms level, the hands are much further apart. Yet the arms themselves have never changed length. If each set of finger tips were attached to a wheel, the wheels would each change direction between droop and level arms.

Vehicles sensitive to this are said to have undesirable "bump steer". Bump steer causes a vehicle to dart sideways when a bump is hit, thus the term, "bump steer". Manufacturing engineers try to design the system to avoid this but usually some minor variation still slips through so that there is probably no perfect design.

For our purposes, on our tow-truck, or motorhome vehicles, we wish to check for toe-in or toe-out when the steering wheels are sitting fully weighted, on the ground, for this reason and the steering arms are in their normal, close-to-level driving position.

So one can then "ink-line" the tires like I described above and then lower the chassis back to the ground. Since the tire treads may contact the ground at an odd angle and stick there, when dropped straight down off the jack(s), it pays to roll the vehicle back and forth a few feet to settle the tires. The ink-line will be still be legible.

If I remember right, I actually did do this when I checked my pick-up truck years and years ago. I stopped a gentle forward roll down hill on my driveway by applying a light brake so that the entire assembly was put under a typical wheel-twisting tension, as it would during driving and braking conditions. Again, the one thing to usually avoid is any toe-out. There is a case for slight toe-out in front wheel drive cars since the force of pulling the car also pulls the "mechanical give", therefore the tires, closer together in front. This is the exact opposite of trailers or non-driven wheels that divert, or open up in front from "give" caused by drag.

In conclusion:
If one looks up actual specs, it is usually given in degrees, not fractions of an inch on an ordinary tape measure. Although it's possible to calculate this with a little trigonometry, it is much easier to trust a respected shop... unless afterwards, your tires wear weird, or the car suddenly doesn't steer right anymore. Then all bets are off.

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Old 05-10-2021, 06:37 PM   #20
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I hope the photos work. Side view of our truck and camper. Drove round trip of 500 miles this weekend. Dropped the tire pressure to 65 but the amount of sway wasn't less than at 70 psi. The trip north was against a head wind and I drove 65 mph with some swaying, on return trip little wind and less swaying. Perhaps I can't expect this trailer to pull as well as the hardside pop up we previously had from Forest River.

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...j1i7zJB9-iQ1o1

https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1Q...TW4Py0W_pLtYSU
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