Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-28-2023, 09:25 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 43
Covid Review?

We are quite a ways from 2020 now. Has anyone seen a comprehensive review? Origins, actual death rate, vax effectiveness vs non vaxxed.

We had first set of shots, no boosters. Most of family skipped.

What happened to the Pandemic of the unvaxxed? Did it happen anywhere?

Docs seem to have no interest in discussion, mainly a lot we do not know.
Muggs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 09:33 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 4,184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
We are quite a ways from 2020 now. Has anyone seen a comprehensive review? Origins, actual death rate, vax effectiveness vs non vaxxed.

We had first set of shots, no boosters. Most of family skipped.

What happened to the Pandemic of the unvaxxed? Did it happen anywhere?

Docs seem to have no interest in discussion, mainly a lot we do not know.
I doubt there is one single comprehensive review. But, from many, I guess a person could find one that fits the outcome or results they’re wanting to see. We’re in an age where one can probably select a version of history that fits a person’s preconceived notions.

Determine a source that you would consider to be reliable, and go check that source. For example, if you consider the CDC reliable, then check with them for a comprehensive review.
__________________
2020 Sunseeker 2440DS on 2019 Ford E-450, Trekker cap, Topaz paint
BehindBars is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 09:42 AM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by BehindBars View Post
I doubt there is one single comprehensive review. But, from many, I guess you could find one that fits the outcome or results you’re wanting to see.

Determine a source that you would consider to be reliable, and go check that source. For example, if you consider the CDC reliable, then check with them for a comprehensive review.
You got me on "reliable source". After CDC modified info site during one period, stopped using at all. Docs silent, media meaningless in general. In rural county here during peak, ICU was empty with only sister in law and 2 other aged types even though local news said hosp slammed.

Maybe another under rug?
Muggs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 09:47 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,534
COVID is still here just not as deadly. The DW, my Mother, SIL just had it. We all tested positive and had the vaccinations. Would it have been worst without the vaccinations who knows.

Our Dr. says he is seeing at least 3-4 cases a day currently on average.

Our family picked it up from different unknown places. First time the DW and I have had it.

We lost several friends to the pandemic earlier on.

__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 09:54 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Oaklevel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 9,534
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
You got me on "reliable source". After CDC modified info site during one period, stopped using at all. Docs silent, media meaningless in general. In rural county here during peak, ICU was empty with only sister in law and 2 other aged types even though local news said hosp slammed.

Maybe another under rug?
No surprise rural areas not slammed during the peak times. People not on top of each other. We can go days and not see a soul. The local news comes from a larger market and is not based in the rural part of an area.

Every time there was a tornado warning in the coverage area my MIL would say just scaring the old people as where she lived the has never been a tornado but the coverage area there is and has been.

__________________

2005 Dodge 3500 Cummins
2017 Wildwood Lodge 4092 BFL
1966 Mustang GT
1986 Mustang SVO
Lillie Spoiled Rotten Boxer Mix
Oaklevel is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 10:58 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
TowPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,658
many people use selective perception when reviewing this subject.
TowPro is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 12:27 PM   #7
Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 43
I thought this was Covid discussion thread?

I have looked and found nothing more than expression of opinions. No real solid data indicating whether or not policy as presented, worked. Nothing political, just honest question of how effective response was.

The statement "pandemic of the unvaxxed" struck me as odd and very absolute. Should this not be questioned? Usually a statement like this is backed by hard data or verfication later. Is our next response going to do same or will it be refined.

As far as CDC, Florida Govenor published occupancy rares by county to show true hosp resource usage. Even our rural county (agriculture/old folks) never matched up to as reported. Was hard to find full in our state.

We traveled mostly without issue. We actually raced as soon as 30 day shutdown ended. We could race in 3 out of 4 counties due to local policy.

We had to get intial vax for elder (older than us) care in hosp. No boosters because nothing other than words to support policy at that point.
Muggs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 01:38 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
PhilFromMaine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Maine
Posts: 1,437
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
I thought this was Covid discussion thread?

I have looked and found nothing more than expression of opinions. No real solid data indicating whether or not policy as presented, worked. Nothing political, just honest question of how effective response was.

The statement "pandemic of the unvaxxed" struck me as odd and very absolute. Should this not be questioned? Usually a statement like this is backed by hard data or verfication later. Is our next response going to do same or will it be refined.

As far as CDC, Florida Govenor published occupancy rares by county to show true hosp resource usage. Even our rural county (agriculture/old folks) never matched up to as reported. Was hard to find full in our state.

We traveled mostly without issue. We actually raced as soon as 30 day shutdown ended. We could race in 3 out of 4 counties due to local policy.

We had to get intial vax for elder (older than us) care in hosp. No boosters because nothing other than words to support policy at that point.
We are fully vaccinated including the latest vaccine. CDC does keep the known stats. There are also the unknown stats of people who got it and never sought medical help.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...tatracker-home
__________________
2018 Coachmen Freedom Express Liberty Edition 231RBDSLE
PhilFromMaine is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 02:10 PM   #9
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 6,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
I thought this was Covid discussion thread?

I have looked and found nothing more than expression of opinions. No real solid data indicating whether or not policy as presented, worked. Nothing political, just honest question of how effective response was.

The statement "pandemic of the unvaxxed" struck me as odd and very absolute. Should this not be questioned? Usually a statement like this is backed by hard data or verfication later. Is our next response going to do same or will it be refined.

As far as CDC, Florida Govenor published occupancy rares by county to show true hosp resource usage. Even our rural county (agriculture/old folks) never matched up to as reported. Was hard to find full in our state.

We traveled mostly without issue. We actually raced as soon as 30 day shutdown ended. We could race in 3 out of 4 counties due to local policy.

We had to get intial vax for elder (older than us) care in hosp. No boosters because nothing other than words to support policy at that point.
Aside from the effect of covid on those with a comorbidity, opinions are all there is. As far as the CDC (clown show), goes, they're more into policy than facts. The "pandemic" brought back the old adage "ARE YOU GOING TO BELIEVE THE GOVERNMENT, OR YOUR LYING EYES?"
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 02:23 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 107
The truth is what you want it to be. There are enough sources with every possible sets of "facts" to validate whatever you want to believe. The most important source is what you have personally experienced.

Let me start by addressing the most idiotic claim by some: COVID is just a cold. COVID is much more than a "cold" because I personally know medical personal who died from it in Spring/Summer 2020. Can I prove they died from COVID and not something else? No. I did not tend to them in their final illness or review autopsy reports. But I do know that several people died and have never seen such a cluster of deaths in the profession my life. How many medical professionals do you know or even know of that die of the cold every year?

What about the present?

We still have excess mortality. That means in any given week or month more people are dying of whatever cause than would have been predicted based on weekly/monthly death rates from the decade before 2020.

Are they all dying of COVID? No.

Are most of them dying of COVID? Very unlikely.

So what are they dying from? Death rates of pretty much everything are up, from cancers to opportunistic infections to circulatory issues. The cancer deaths can be explained by people missing screenings and treatment in 2020 and 2021. The others can-not.

So what happened? A great study out of Canada (https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/.../00015-eng.htm) has some scary numbers:
45% of Canadians have had COVID once.
14% have had 2 infections.
5% have had it 3 or more times.

And remember, those are self-reported numbers. The real numbers are likely higher because not everyone tests every time they are "a little sick"

This image is from the study:

And now for the real scary numbers from the study:

12% of the Canadian population is suffering from long term symptoms from their COVID infections. This includes almost 50% of those with 3 or more infections.

What are the numbers here in the USA? There is no reliable study, but I think you can extrapolate from the Canadian data and it is likely worse, possibly much worse.

It is my personal opinion that COVID is still around and infecting people and at times this winter could get as bad as the last few winters or maybe even worse. No one is testing and a lot of people are using euphemisms like "an unusual summer flu" or "unusual cold" to avoid using the politically/socially charged term of "COVID" so the "COVID numbers" will not be reported as very high.

But the good news is that vaccines keep you from getting too sick. Drugs and better understanding of treatment mean death rates are a lot lower than they were in Spring 2020 even for the completely unvaccinated.

Does that mean we are all good? HELL NO.

Is death all you need to worry about from COVID? My opinion, No. Long COVID is a significantly bigger problem for people individually and as a society.

Do I have some data to back up that claim?

1) Personal observations of people who have had COVID. The number of typos in texts/e-mails. The mistakes like "I forgot to...". The reduction in activities like someone who lived for playing golf going "I no longer enjoy golf". The early retirements. Various medical problems in previously health people, that cannot be explained away by their being 3 years older.

2) Lots of public data that indicates people are not able to focus. Increase in rates of fatal and non-fatal car accidents. Unusual increase in automotive insurance rates because there are more claims. Very public incidents of close calls between airplanes despite layers of safety protocols.

None of that is directly linked to COVID, but Long-Covid induced reduction in concentration explains it. A significant increase in incidents of unruly air passengers. There is no empirical evidence air service or flying experience is significantly worse. But when a person is frustrated, their capacity to cope goes down significantly.

Long COVID is both a personal and societal problem. If you are suffering from symptoms that keep you from fully enjoying life, that is your problem. If you are so sick that you are unable to contribute to society, that is both your and the society's problem. If enough people in a society get disabled, the society collapses. In an extreme example, in the native American societies that got completely wiped out after being exposed to Smallpox, a substantial minority of people died not of Smallpox but of starvation and other ills of a collapsing society.

If drivers or pilots or train conductors start causing more crashes, that is also a societal problem. Our regulatory framework has not caught up with it and is unlikely to catch up to it at any foreseeable time. It will become a "we have to live with it" problem.

I know this post has gotten a little helter-skelter and lost its narrative, but that's all the time I have right now. Will come back and clean it up later, if the thread is still open
__________________
2023 FR3 30DS
Rescue.Dogs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 02:29 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 107
A quick thought on vaccines.

The media and to a lesser extent "government" grossly over-hyped COVID Vaccines. In 2020, when everyone needed Superman to come and save us, Vaccines were portrayed as that Superman and they could not deliver.

COVID vaccines did exactly what they were designed to do: They significantly reduced the probability of serious illness and death.

COVID vaccines are like the Flu vaccines, Flu virus being the closest cousin to COVID virus. They are NOT like the Rabies, Small Pox or Measles vaccines which prevent the person from getting sick at all.
__________________
2023 FR3 30DS
Rescue.Dogs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 04:10 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: May 2023
Posts: 43
Interesting to see range of responses.

No doubt Covid is another dangerous flu like infection. Wife, RN saw it as a potential disastter at onset as likely new and no previous even partial immunity. Like flu vax gives.

Any illness stronger effect on weakest immune systems.

In actual experience, only death was not bloodline with asthema who required ICU every school season pre covid. Others who tested positive, mild flu symptoms mostly lasting 24 hours to 5 days.

Is possible it infected wife and I as we did get a bit of congestion at times, but not notably unusual with grandkids in previous years. We always seem to have that after school starts for younger ones.

Long term effects possible, seems with/without vax. Other than really sore spot where shot went 8 hours after both shots, I do not, nor does wife seem any different. She was not sore after shots. Kids/grandkids seem fine after positive tests. Before passing, eldest test pos 3 times with only mild indigestion. She had every booster but passed of natural issues going back to stroke and cardiac issues in 2015.

I wonder if we will ever see reliable info. The other grandma broke her knee after onset, she was in hosp 4 days and was tested every 6 hours till finaly a positive test with no symptoms.

My rancher buddies jokingly said they were immune from all the ivermectin they absorbed handling herds.
Muggs is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 05:55 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Tx Hill Country
Posts: 192
For those of you dissing the CDC, I have to stand up for them. I have a very close friend who was VERY high up in the CDC. He had retired before COVID, but the two people who represented the CDC at Trumps side my friend knew very well, and one of them had even worked for for my friend. I should point out that technically Fauci actually did not work for the CDC but a closely related entity under Health and Human Services.

Any one who thinks CDC is a politically motivated entity is wrong. The closest they get to “politics” is that they have to work with Congress for funding and that was actually part of my friends job. Also, they can only work with reliable information that is available to them. They don’t create data, they collect it. Like someone said once about computers - garbage in, garbage out

COVID is very real. But we have to remember that the various mutations changed COVID a lot over two years. It went from being very contagious and deadly, especially for people who had certain medical issues already, to being more contagious but far less deadly.

And let’s remember that what it is now is very much like the Flu has been for a long time. Tens of thousands of people die from the Flu every year, and most of them have pre existing conditions. I had a guy argue with me once that if they died because of pre existing conditions they really did not die of COVID (or Flu). But if they did not get COVID they may have lived a long time.
__________________
Jim
East-West 34’ Alta 2850 KRL
2023 Expedition Platinum
jjscsix is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 06:18 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
BigH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Saint Paul, MN
Posts: 1,250
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post
...
Any one who thinks CDC is a politically motivated entity is wrong. The closest they get to “politics” is that they have to work with Congress for funding ...
Hmmm...
__________________
24 Ram 3500 long box 50 gal tank
18 Vengeance 28V
BigH is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 06:24 PM   #15
Site Team
 
RedLdr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: North Georgia
Posts: 2,830
Before Posting in this forum please review the Guidelines Here.
__________________
Wayne
2024 Coachmen Northern Spirit 1943RB
2021 F-150 4X2 SuperCrew Lariat 502A, 3.5L Powerboost Hybrid, 3.55 gears, Tow Technology Package, Tow Mirrors, 1,840# Cargo, 7,000# Tow, 7.2KW Pro Power, Sumo Springs, A.R.E Z2 Topper

2024 Sunseeker 2150SLEF / Ford E-350 chassis on order.

It is better to have too much truck than to have too much trailer.
RedLdr1 is offline  
Old 12-28-2023, 09:18 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Novi, MI USA
Posts: 792
Send a message via AIM to NoviBill
This is worth looking at
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/u...ination-status
NoviBill is offline  
Old 12-30-2023, 12:21 PM   #17
D W
Senior Member
 
D W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: ALASKA (World's Biggest Campground)
Posts: 6,513
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjscsix View Post

Any one who thinks CDC is a politically motivated entity is wrong. The closest they get to “politics” is that they have to work with Congress for funding.....
It's all about "power" with any government agency. Please explain what Constitutional Power the CDC had to issue a nationwide moratorium on evictions for non-payment of rents in 2020? Un-elected bureaucrats dabbling in 10th Amendment issues.
__________________
'07 K3500 Silverado LT Crew Duramax (LBZ)
2016 Salem 27RKSS
1984 CHEV SCOTTSDALE K20 2GCGK24J0E1XXXXXX (Chevrolet Legends-Class of 2019)
"...exhaust fluid? We don't need no stinkin' exhaust fluid"
D W is offline  
Old 12-30-2023, 01:34 PM   #18
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2023
Location: Exact Center of CA
Posts: 136
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muggs View Post
I thought this was Covid discussion thread?

I have looked and found nothing more than expression of opinions. No real solid data indicating whether or not policy as presented, worked. Nothing political, just honest question of how effective response was.

The statement "pandemic of the unvaxxed" struck me as odd and very absolute. Should this not be questioned? Usually a statement like this is backed by hard data or verfication later. Is our next response going to do same or will it be refined.

As far as CDC, Florida Govenor published occupancy rares by county to show true hosp resource usage. Even our rural county (agriculture/old folks) never matched up to as reported. Was hard to find full in our state.

We traveled mostly without issue. We actually raced as soon as 30 day shutdown ended. We could race in 3 out of 4 counties due to local policy.

We had to get intial vax for elder (older than us) care in hosp. No boosters because nothing other than words to support policy at that point.
I doubt you will ever see a comprehensive review. in CA Dr's are prevented from expressing any opinion other than supported by the state. CA will go after their medical license for expressing any other opinion.
The hospital records were skewed by state reimbursement policy. CA required that every patient that was not tested negative be listed as a covid case and paid the hospital an extra $2500 per person.
You are never going to get a real accounting.
Probably the best you will get is comparing over all death rates from before during and after the covid pandemic. And not look at just deaths listed as covid deaths. DR
dangerranger is offline  
Old 12-31-2023, 09:49 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2023
Location: Tx Hill Country
Posts: 192
Quote:
Originally Posted by D W View Post
It's all about "power" with any government agency. Please explain what Constitutional Power the CDC had to issue a nationwide moratorium on evictions for non-payment of rents in 2020? Un-elected bureaucrats dabbling in 10th Amendment issues.
The Supreme Court got involved and answered that question. But remember that the CDC is an operating unit of the department of health and human services.

Yes, government agencies have “power”. But you seem to be implying that is a bad thing. Sure, power can be abused, and you have a right to an opinion as to whether the CDC abused power. My point was that overall the CDC is a non partisan organization that exists for the good of the country.

Their job was to minimize the effects of COVID in this case. There is a lot more that could be discussed about the position the CDC took or tried to take or not take, but that would cross the boundries of what this forum allows. See, this forum has power too 😂
__________________
Jim
East-West 34’ Alta 2850 KRL
2023 Expedition Platinum
jjscsix is offline  
Old 12-31-2023, 10:05 AM   #20
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2023
Posts: 98
Covid Review? LOL
FlagstaffBen is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:55 AM.