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04-05-2020, 12:02 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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For all the wannabe Lawyers out there
How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!
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Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 12:29 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcavaiani
How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!
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I think that if you read the fine print when signing in to a campground they have a "waiver" included that says they aren't responsible for most everything that happens to you while you're there.
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"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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04-05-2020, 12:33 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 595
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Not sure why you (or the campground) would need this . . . there's no liability to waive, particularly if the campground is permitted to be open.
P.S. This is a dog best left sleeping - the last thing we need after this pandemic is another virulent strain of viruses, namely lawyers seeking to attach liability to whomever had insurance!! ( . . . and I'm not a wannabe lawyer, I am one! )
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2015 Berkshire 34QS
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04-05-2020, 12:37 PM
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#4
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Just as confused as you
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: south central Wisconsin
Posts: 5,108
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I guess if the CG owners want to go along with the concept of CYA it might be a good idea. But with most states having a Stay At Home order anyone getting Covid-19 while at the campground will be all on the guest, not the campground.
I heard that Dr. Fauci suspected the incubation period could be anywhere from 4 to 21 days. So it would be hard pressed for anyone spending the weekend to prove they got the virus while at the campground.
If it turns out that incubation period can be that long the 14 day self-quarantine is kinda mute. Just saying as they admit they don't know everything they need to know about this pandemic yet.
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Richard & Jill
2014 Flagstaff 832IKBS Classic Super Lite
2018 Silverado 1500 Crew Cab Z71 4WD All Star Edition
Camping since 1989, Seasonal since 2000.
Car Shredder Op/Tech, Scrap Metal Recycling - retired
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04-05-2020, 12:59 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Baltimore Md.
Posts: 122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcavaiani
How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!
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Don't know what the issue is? You had a post about being self contained. Is it you want to go camping that bad? I have a seasonal and I am locked out for now. The governor has closed the campground. The owner can get fined for having people on the property. I can be cited with a violation for crossing state lines to get there. Is it worth it? Not to me or my family. My wife retired over the winter and we were looking forward to opening day. We even bought a new Destination series camper and 2 new golf carts that were delivered a week before the lockdown. Shelter in place and lets get rid of the virus!
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04-05-2020, 01:01 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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These comments just received make perfect sense!
My thought was that I WOULD sign any kind of an additional waiver - as I know I will not be infecting nor contracting this virus while isolated in our camper.
The other side of the coin is that our campground owner does not like to leave any issue in limbo and tries to rely upon expert legal advice before proceeding ...
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 01:03 PM
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#7
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Pickin', Campin', Mason
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Western PA
Posts: 19,149
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Every campground I've stayed in, that makes you sign in on entry, already has this in place.
Read the fine print sometime. You can't hold the campground responsible for anything.
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F&AM Lodge 358 Somerset, PA - JAFFA Shrine - Altoona, PA
Days Camped ☼ '19=118 ☼ '20=116 ☼ '21=123 ☼ '22=134 ☼ '23=118☼ '24=90
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04-05-2020, 01:03 PM
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#8
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waybeck2018
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: Central Alabama
Posts: 764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneSouth10
Not sure why you (or the campground) would need this . . . there's no liability to waive, particularly if the campground is permitted to be open.
P.S. This is a dog best left sleeping - the last thing we need after this pandemic is another virulent strain of viruses, namely lawyers seeking to attach liability to whomever had insurance!! ( . . . and I'm not a wannabe lawyer, I am one! )
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It is inevitable that the Ambulance Chasers will jump on something like a coyote on a field grouse. Most knowledgeable business owners have this Hold Harmless agreement in documents to protect themselves and their business. And, in our litigious society there is always liability, most is imagined by the complainant and their lawyers.
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2012 F-250, 6.7 Super Duty Powerstroke; 2019 291 BR Primetime Tracer,
Days camped in 2018-61
Looking Forward to Completing This Map Soon !
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04-05-2020, 01:07 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Papa Roo
Don't know what the issue is? You had a post about being self contained. Is it you want to go camping that bad? I have a seasonal and I am locked out for now. The governor has closed the campground. The owner can get fined for having people on the property. I can be cited with a violation for crossing state lines to get there. Is it worth it? Not to me or my family. My wife retired over the winter and we were looking forward to opening day. We even bought a new Destination series camper and 2 new golf carts that were delivered a week before the lockdown. Shelter in place and lets get rid of the virus!
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I DO want to do something that I REALLY DO like to do, but do not want to do so IF:
1) It is illegal or contrary to any governmental directive.
and
2) If I personally believe that I would be putting myself or ANYONE else in any kind of physical danger.
I must add that the thing which wud tick me off more than anything is if a campground owner appeared (to me) to be 'somehow or someway hiding' behind some non-factual directives in order to stay shutdown for whatever period.
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 01:33 PM
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#10
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Multi-Slacker
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,279
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A good lawyer will probably say that those not responsible for anything fine print attachments simply make it a little more difficult to actually hold the campground responsible.
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Safe Travels
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04-05-2020, 01:47 PM
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#11
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Grammar Pedant
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Frederick, CO
Posts: 1,580
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Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.
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Every time you use an apostrophe to make a word plural, a puppy dies.
TV: 2019 F-350 Lariat 4WD CCSB 6.7 PSD 3.55, 3,591 lb payload
Former RV: 2018 Rockwood Mini Lite 2504S
Former RV: 2007 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah
Former TV: 2005 F-150 King Ranch 4WD SCrew 5.4L Tow Package
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04-05-2020, 02:20 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67L48
Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.
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This post "digs" up another clause/issue which I know IS Bogus. It's the clause often found on seasonal campground contracts "At the sole discretion of the campground ...."
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 02:52 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 901
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcavaiani
I must add that the thing which wud tick me off more than anything is if a campground owner appeared (to me) to be 'somehow or someway hiding' behind some non-factual directives in order to stay shutdown for whatever period.
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Any private campground can, presumably, "stay shutdown" for whatever reason they choose.
That being said, I'd also assume that private campgrounds would much prefer to stay open, if it was legal and they felt it was safe. In the current economic situation, I'd guess that most such campgrounds need the money.
Some state park campgrounds remain open here in Arizona. But it appears that they're operating at less than capacity - pretty unusual for this time of year.
Dave
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2015 Solera 24R
2014 Mercedes Chassis
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04-05-2020, 03:04 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Cedar Creek Lake, TX
Posts: 3,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 67L48
Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.
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Sorta like the gravel trucks with the big signs on the back: "Not responsible for broken windshields"?
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Cedar Creek Lake, Texas
2019 Keystone Loredo 290SRL
2019 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins crew cab
Andersen hitch
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04-05-2020, 03:19 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveJordan
Any private campground can, presumably, "stay shutdown" for whatever reason they choose.
That being said, I'd also assume that private campgrounds would much prefer to stay open, if it was legal and they felt it was safe. In the current economic situation, I'd guess that most such campgrounds need the money.
Some state park campgrounds remain open here in Arizona. But it appears that they're operating at less than capacity - pretty unusual for this time of year.
Dave
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Being private, and allowed to be open, does NOT mean that they will open - I agree. Question: So, if they have maybe 200 seasonals who have already paid 3K fees in advance, then what wud be their motive to open - in an essentially closed environment(?), where likely 0 transients wail be interested ?
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 03:23 PM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: North of Seattle, WA
Posts: 17,359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5picker
Every campground I've stayed in, that makes you sign in on entry, already has this in place.
Read the fine print sometime. You can't hold the campground responsible for anything.
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If I understand correctly, even with disclaimers, waivers, etc, If negligence can be proven it's still "game on".
Isn't it necessary in a lawsuit involving injury or damages to show that someone was negligent in their actions and that negligence caused damages and/or injuries. Can one really waive their rights in advance?
__________________
"A wise man can change his mind. A fool never will." (Japanese Proverb)
"You only grow old when you run out of new things to do"
2018 Flagstaff Micro Lite 25BDS
2023 f-150 SCREW XLT 3.5 Ecoboost (The result of a $68,000 oil change )
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04-05-2020, 03:26 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: WI
Posts: 324
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Can ANYONE out there give a quick, maybe non legal, and simple answer/reply regarding "how would a Campground have to Partially/Fully reimburse Seasonal Contract Campers who have PREPAID?
__________________
Sierra Destination Camper - 2017 401 FLX
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04-05-2020, 03:33 PM
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#18
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Site Team
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 33,958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcavaiani
Can ANYONE out there give a quick, maybe non legal, and simple answer/reply regarding "how would a Campground have to Partially/Fully reimburse Seasonal Contract Campers who have PREPAID?
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It appears to the site team, that you are perhaps trying to solicit legal advice/opinions which is not really going to fly here. It appears you are perhaps trying to get a refund on a seasonal site that you cannot access currently. It appears you will need to contact an attorney and they will be able to advise you on contractual matters.
Please read this thread that we keep as a sticky about soliciting legal opinions/advice.
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...own-65127.html
Sorry
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2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS
A 72 hour hold in a psych unit is beginning to intrigue me as a potential vacation opportunity.
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