For all the wannabe Lawyers out there

[dcavaiani]

How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by dcavaiani

How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!

I think that if you read the fine print when signing in to a campground they have a "waiver" included that says they aren't responsible for most everything that happens to you while you're there.

[GoneSouth10]

Not sure why you (or the campground) would need this . . . there's no liability to waive, particularly if the campground is permitted to be open.

P.S. This is a dog best left sleeping - the last thing we need after this pandemic is another virulent strain of viruses, namely lawyers seeking to attach liability to whomever had insurance!! ( . . . and I'm not a wannabe lawyer, I am one! )

[Scrapper]

I guess if the CG owners want to go along with the concept of CYA it might be a good idea. But with most states having a Stay At Home order anyone getting Covid-19 while at the campground will be all on the guest, not the campground.

I heard that Dr. Fauci suspected the incubation period could be anywhere from 4 to 21 days. So it would be hard pressed for anyone spending the weekend to prove they got the virus while at the campground.

If it turns out that incubation period can be that long the 14 day self-quarantine is kinda mute. Just saying as they admit they don't know everything they need to know about this pandemic yet.

[Cherokee39]

Originally Posted by dcavaiani

How about this! A campground, permitted to be open under their essential State business guidelines, drafts a legal WAIVER (or via their Campground Association) for that campground to be "held harmless" !!

Don't know what the issue is? You had a post about being self contained. Is it you want to go camping that bad? I have a seasonal and I am locked out for now. The governor has closed the campground. The owner can get fined for having people on the property. I can be cited with a violation for crossing state lines to get there. Is it worth it? Not to me or my family. My wife retired over the winter and we were looking forward to opening day. We even bought a new Destination series camper and 2 new golf carts that were delivered a week before the lockdown. Shelter in place and lets get rid of the virus!

[dcavaiani]

These comments just received make perfect sense!

My thought was that I WOULD sign any kind of an additional waiver - as I know I will not be infecting nor contracting this virus while isolated in our camper.

The other side of the coin is that our campground owner does not like to leave any issue in limbo and tries to rely upon expert legal advice before proceeding ...

[5picker]

Every campground I've stayed in, that makes you sign in on entry, already has this in place.

Read the fine print sometime. You can't hold the campground responsible for anything.

[waybeck2018]

Originally Posted by GoneSouth10

Not sure why you (or the campground) would need this . . . there's no liability to waive, particularly if the campground is permitted to be open.

P.S. This is a dog best left sleeping - the last thing we need after this pandemic is another virulent strain of viruses, namely lawyers seeking to attach liability to whomever had insurance!! ( . . . and I'm not a wannabe lawyer, I am one! )

It is inevitable that the Ambulance Chasers will jump on something like a coyote on a field grouse. Most knowledgeable business owners have this Hold Harmless agreement in documents to protect themselves and their business. And, in our litigious society there is always liability, most is imagined by the complainant and their lawyers.

[dcavaiani]

Originally Posted by Papa Roo

Don't know what the issue is? You had a post about being self contained. Is it you want to go camping that bad? I have a seasonal and I am locked out for now. The governor has closed the campground. The owner can get fined for having people on the property. I can be cited with a violation for crossing state lines to get there. Is it worth it? Not to me or my family. My wife retired over the winter and we were looking forward to opening day. We even bought a new Destination series camper and 2 new golf carts that were delivered a week before the lockdown. Shelter in place and lets get rid of the virus!

I DO want to do something that I REALLY DO like to do, but do not want to do so IF:

1) It is illegal or contrary to any governmental directive.

and

2) If I personally believe that I would be putting myself or ANYONE else in any kind of physical danger.

I must add that the thing which wud tick me off more than anything is if a campground owner appeared (to me) to be 'somehow or someway hiding' behind some non-factual directives in order to stay shutdown for whatever period.

[CurtPutnam]

A good lawyer will probably say that those not responsible for anything fine print attachments simply make it a little more difficult to actually hold the campground responsible.

[67L48]

Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.

[dcavaiani]

Originally Posted by 67L48

Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.

This post "digs" up another clause/issue which I know IS Bogus. It's the clause often found on seasonal campground contracts "At the sole discretion of the campground ...."

[DaveJordan]

Originally Posted by dcavaiani

I must add that the thing which wud tick me off more than anything is if a campground owner appeared (to me) to be 'somehow or someway hiding' behind some non-factual directives in order to stay shutdown for whatever period.

Any private campground can, presumably, "stay shutdown" for whatever reason they choose.

That being said, I'd also assume that private campgrounds would much prefer to stay open, if it was legal and they felt it was safe. In the current economic situation, I'd guess that most such campgrounds need the money.

Some state park campgrounds remain open here in Arizona. But it appears that they're operating at less than capacity - pretty unusual for this time of year.

Dave

[CedarCreekWoody]

Originally Posted by 67L48

Just because a business claims on the front end that they can’t be held liable for some thing doesn’t necessarily make it so. People rarely have the independent privilege of defining what laws do or don’t apply to them or their businesses. Claiming immunity may be an effective means to prevent lawsuits from occurring; they’re rarely a good defense when a lawsuit does get filed.

Sorta like the gravel trucks with the big signs on the back: "Not responsible for broken windshields"?

[dcavaiani]

Originally Posted by DaveJordan

Any private campground can, presumably, "stay shutdown" for whatever reason they choose.

That being said, I'd also assume that private campgrounds would much prefer to stay open, if it was legal and they felt it was safe. In the current economic situation, I'd guess that most such campgrounds need the money.

Some state park campgrounds remain open here in Arizona. But it appears that they're operating at less than capacity - pretty unusual for this time of year.

Dave

Being private, and allowed to be open, does NOT mean that they will open - I agree. Question: So, if they have maybe 200 seasonals who have already paid 3K fees in advance, then what wud be their motive to open - in an essentially closed environment(?), where likely 0 transients wail be interested ?

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 5picker

Every campground I've stayed in, that makes you sign in on entry, already has this in place.

Read the fine print sometime. You can't hold the campground responsible for anything.

If I understand correctly, even with disclaimers, waivers, etc, If negligence can be proven it's still "game on".

Isn't it necessary in a lawsuit involving injury or damages to show that someone was negligent in their actions and that negligence caused damages and/or injuries. Can one really waive their rights in advance?

[dcavaiani]

Can ANYONE out there give a quick, maybe non legal, and simple answer/reply regarding "how would a Campground have to Partially/Fully reimburse Seasonal Contract Campers who have PREPAID?

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by dcavaiani

Can ANYONE out there give a quick, maybe non legal, and simple answer/reply regarding "how would a Campground have to Partially/Fully reimburse Seasonal Contract Campers who have PREPAID?

It appears to the site team, that you are perhaps trying to solicit legal advice/opinions which is not really going to fly here. It appears you are perhaps trying to get a refund on a seasonal site that you cannot access currently. It appears you will need to contact an attorney and they will be able to advise you on contractual matters.


Please read this thread that we keep as a sticky about soliciting legal opinions/advice.

https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...own-65127.html


Sorry