Gunnison CO enacts Criminal Charges

[BandJCarm]

Makes no sense. You can't move, but you CAN congregate in grocery stores every day.

You can't cross a state border from another state, but crossing from another country is peachy fine and wonderful.


Our brains have been collectively fried, I fear.

[mtnlvr]

The same thing is happening in Mammoth Lakes, Ca. in the eastern Sierra. Two thirds of the small ski resort town are vacation home owners. The town is reliant on tourism. The town now has the sheriffs stationed at the entrance to the town checking ID’s. All short term rentals have also been banned. Snobby nimbyism who want it both ways; we want your money and tax revenue, now leave you’re not welcome!

[mtnlvr]

The extreme measures are also going on in LA. It’s turning into a police state there. They are arresting lone surfers and paddleboarders who were doing a good job of keeping their social distance. My ex was just drinking a cup of coffee in his car across the street from the ocean and got harassed by the sheriffs.

[rlocicero]

Residency is more than just owning a house. Tests for residency include where your drivers licenses from where you do your utility bills go where you normally get your mail what your doctors are. States and localities can use a lot of criteria to prove residency.

[larrybessette]

I understand everything in this thread, but I live in a small town in western NC and we have been invaded by non-residents. I understand that they have a home here but don't come here during this pandemic. Please. The advantages of self isolation are pretty much wasted when you have hundreds or even thousands of non-residents coming here to escape areas that they believe are not safe. All they are doing is putting this community at risk. I'm seeing more Florida tags in town than at the height of the summer season. Last week there was a 15 passenger van with Pennsylvania plates parked downtown. Why are you here! The restaurants are closed, the hotels are closed, the state forests are closed, churches have canceled services, art galleries and craft shops are closed. Brevard collage has cancelled classes. Why are you here!
You are here because you are running from an area that is dangerous and in doing so you are putting us at increased risk.
It's not a constitutional issue. It's a personal responsibility to fellow citizens issue.
OK. That's my rant. I'm done.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by GoneSouth10

Not to split hairs, but what defines your "primary residence" - your driver's license? Your tax return?
)

Sometimes it is a combination of things including where you are registered to vote, which by law must be the place you return to most of the time.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by 67L48

You don't even have to go that far. Just ask anyone who owns land that the government has deemed a Welands (in part or in whole). Ask those folks how much they get to enjoy their property.

With that said, I cannot imagine that any of these fines are constitutional ... though I am not a constitutional lawyer. I don't believe that appointed officials (such as health officials) can unilaterally say, "It's too dangerous here; you can't leave your home ... or run your business ... or even drive across our county line." That's a police state and it takes more than a health official to enact martial law.

I don't believe that the states will enforce any fines they levy. Denver has issued a dozen or so fines. I expect those will all be waived as soon as our "stay at home" order is lifted. No state government official or office will want a court to actually issue an opinion on their activities. You only get to wield supreme power over people's personal liberty in the future and it's only an effective scare tactic in the future if the court remains silent on its constitutionality.

We're not talking martial law here.

Health official are often empowered by legislation to issue various orders to protect the public from health threats.

As for the Constitution? Think "Tenth Amendment" that puts a lot of powers back in the State's baliwick.

[emm-dee]

Originally Posted by mtnlvr

The extreme measures are also going on in LA. It’s turning into a police state there. They are arresting lone surfers and paddleboarders who were doing a good job of keeping their social distance. My ex was just drinking a cup of coffee in his car across the street from the ocean and got harassed by the sheriffs.

It’s not nice to call the sheriff to harass your ex.

[Scheinin]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

We're not talking martial law here.

Health official are often empowered by legislation to issue various orders to protect the public from health threats.

As for the Constitution? Think "Tenth Amendment" that puts a lot of powers back in the State's baliwick.

Still, you still have to convince a court of law before a fine or jail sentence can be imposed. As I said earlier, in my opinion as a lawyer, the chances are slim and none. I think it is case of rattling your sword. As noted on the above link: No one had been fined or arrested as of Tuesday (yesterday).

[Oafdawg]

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

[NMWildcat]

And yet one more virus related thread fixing to be closed.......

[Cahriad]

Originally Posted by GoneSouth10

Ummmm, doesn't having a "residence" there make you a "resident". . . .??

Simply NO, having a holiday home makes you a VISITOR. Nice try.

[aircommuter]

The health officials in our county and one neighboring county have distributed an alert VIA the sheriff’s nixle system an order for no hotels, motels, houses, or any short term rentals to be used or advertised for use. The feds already closed Yosemite, but the order is of course to prevent people coming in bringing the virus.

[Cahriad]

Originally Posted by nomad297

The Constitution will always prevail. That’s the way everybody should want it to be if they are an American.

Bruce

I cannot shout fire in a cinema and expect to be covered by the 1st amendment so maybe I cannot spread a virus in a place I do not live. Being an American does not give you the right to endanger my family.

[BandJCarm]

Originally Posted by Cahriad

I cannot shout fire in a cinema and expect to be covered by the 1st amendment so maybe I cannot spread a virus in a place I do not live. Being an American does not give you the right to endanger my family.

Well, and this does apply to those wanting to go camping, I think..........it DOES give him the Right to go freely about the country IF he is NOT endangering your family, even if you think he is.


Ben Franklin was quoted above. Smart man.

That said, one of the issues is that some places are hotspots and the fear is greater. Some places have put rules in place that others have not. Some places have freedom (like opening campgrounds), that others have clamped down on.

The confusion and chaos is hard, given the ease at which folks from all over N. America can easily communicate, like this wonderful Forum.

[Cahriad]

Originally Posted by Stank Bait

"imposing unnecessary burdens on health care, public services, first responders, food supplies and other essential services."



Second home owners are paying for the services too.
Yes, they like to collect the tax and I am sure they will refund or credit for the time they stop you from using your property. Don't bet on it.


Understand what the crisis is but this was settled in the seventeen hundreds. At a minimum compensation needs to be for loss of use.

[frank4711]

looking at the infection rate for the town who the heck wants to go there .... the virus is affecting many folks ability to think clearly ... "The latest order, issued Friday, requires any resident who leaves the county to self isolate for at least seven days upon return. The order also bans visitors, including homeowners who live in the county part-time. They must leave the county unless they can convince Reynolds to issue an exemption.

“I’m just reviewing those on an individual basis and then making a decision for each case, one by one,” Reynolds said." As of last night at 10 pm no one has been fined or arrested.... maybe he will offer some exemptions and all will be well ....

[Cahriad]

Originally Posted by Oafdawg

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Please feel free to die if you wish, please don't take my family with you OK?

This is also one of the most out of context quotes out there, he was referring to taxation but people keep referring to it as some cornerstone of civil liberties.

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by Scheinin

Still, you still have to convince a court of law before a fine or jail sentence can be imposed.

except for traffic court. Guilty until proven innocent.
When it comes to the constitution it can cost one more money to access it than it would be worth.

[babock]

I have a 2nd home in South Lake Tahoe and the locals are crazy there as well. SUPPOSEDLY, they can fine 2nd home owners $1000/day if they are at their homes and they came up after the governor put in the stay in place orders on 3/20. The reality is, they are not going to be going door to door checking IDs. The problem with my house is it is also a short term rental and those are completely banned as short term rental until at least 4/23. They have been checking those and if they checked while I was there, I might have a problem if I couldn't prove when I arrived there. Google is actually good for something since it shows I went up there before the SIP order.

I was actually up there starting 3/19 for a couple weeks but needed to head down south since I have another rental house I needed to do repair on.