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04-07-2020, 04:12 PM
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#1
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
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Gunnison CO enacts Criminal Charges
For Gunnison Colorado: A public health stay at home order for Gunnison County residents was amended to prohibit all visitors, including non-resident 2nd home owners from remaining in the county.
"The county's top public health official also said in the order that non-residents, regardless of whether they own a residence in Gunnison County, are imposing unnecessary burdens on health care, public services, first responders, food supplies and other essential services. Those who violate this or any other portion of the public health order could face a fine of up to $5,000 and up to 18 months in jail."
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Wooden Spoon Survivor
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04-07-2020, 04:45 PM
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#2
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Señor Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Pacific Northwet
Posts: 287
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Good for them! History repeats itself.
"It (1918 influenza) had not reached Gunnison, CO. Neither tiny nor isolated, Gunnison was a railroad town....
...Gunnison decided to isolate itself entirely. Gunnison lawmen blocked all through roads. Train conductors warned all passengers that if they stepped foot on the platform in Gunnison to stretch their legs, they would be arrested and quarantined for five days. Two Nebraskans trying simply to drive through to a town in the next county ran the blockade and were thrown into jail...
Gunnison escaped without a single death." -The Great Influenza (2004)
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2017 Forester
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04-07-2020, 05:06 PM
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#3
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
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Yes, local musuems give credit to Gunnison County administrators back then for saving the town. Unfortunately Gunnison Co has been hit the hardest with the Covid-19 outbreak of all of Colorado with one confirmed infection for every 182 people in the county, thus, the closure.
Its the risk that tourism and skier visitor traffic brings to these smaller communities.
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04-07-2020, 07:08 PM
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#4
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 64
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Soo, stay at home unless you are a non-resident in that case get out and potentially spread the virus to other areas.
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2016 F350 Dually Diesel
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04-08-2020, 12:00 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Central NJ
Posts: 1,001
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Some places on the east coast tried similar stuff. Like Rhode Island and local shore towns. While I understand the reasoning, and I too would like those with NY plates to stay hell out of my area, you can't do this. What little I know these rules were all dropped.
If I own a home in Gunnison, whether is my only home, 2nd home, 15th home they can not legally keep me out. That whole constitution kinda gets in the way.
Jim M.
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04-08-2020, 12:19 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 595
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Ummmm, doesn't having a "residence" there make you a "resident". . . .??
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2015 Berkshire 34QS
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04-08-2020, 12:28 PM
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#7
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneSouth10
Ummmm, doesn't having a "residence" there make you a "resident". . . .??
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Must be your primary residence. Gunnison county is a beautiful area and is a haven for owners of second homes.
https://krdo.com/news/2020/04/07/tou...ine-jail-time/
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04-08-2020, 12:33 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 5,401
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But they really like to collect the taxes on folks second home I bet
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04-08-2020, 12:35 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HangDiver
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Not to split hairs, but what defines your "primary residence" - your driver's license? Your tax return?
I completely understand the rationale, it's the enforcement that is problematic. Hopefully, the mere fact of the announcement will cause common sense to kick in and it will stem the inflow of people . . . although you know we're in trouble when we're relying on common sense to save the day!!
Whether you're in or out of Gunnison County, stay healthy!
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04-08-2020, 12:48 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Posts: 2,832
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My county on the Outer Banks of NC has blocked the 2 roads in and out to visitors since the beginning of the crisis AND also blocked property (2nd home) owners who don't live here year round. Now those property owners have filed suit in federal court so I'm guessing the Colorado situation may depend on the outcome of the case here.
We have a 20 bed hospital here so the winter population may be OK but there's no way to serve our summer population. Constitution vs. legitimate health issue...should be an interesting decision.
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2015 Georgetown 280DS
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04-08-2020, 12:54 PM
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#11
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Global Nomad
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: In my 36CKTS 5th Wheel
Posts: 811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HangDiver
For Gunnison Colorado: A public health stay at home order for Gunnison County residents was amended to prohibit all visitors, including non-resident 2nd home owners from remaining in the county.
"The county's top public health official also said in the order that non-residents, regardless of whether they own a residence in Gunnison County, are imposing unnecessary burdens on health care, public services, first responders, food supplies and other essential services. Those who violate this or any other portion of the public health order could face a fine of up to $5,000 and up to 18 months in jail."
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You don't say who issued the Order. Unless it was done by the legislature, which I doubt it was, the chances of being convicted in court are slim and none. I would certainly represent them.
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Steven J. Scheinin
2015 RAM 3500 4X4 6.7L CTD Dually pulling a
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04-08-2020, 12:55 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7,053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camaraderie
Constitution vs. legitimate health issue...should be an interesting decision.
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The Constitution will always prevail. That’s the way everybody should want it to be if they are an American.
Bruce
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04-08-2020, 12:56 PM
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#13
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneSouth10
Not to split hairs, but what defines your "primary residence" - your driver's license? Your tax return?
I completely understand the rationale, it's the enforcement that is problematic. Hopefully, the mere fact of the announcement will cause common sense to kick in and it will stem the inflow of people . . . although you know we're in trouble when we're relying on common sense to save the day!!
Whether you're in or out of Gunnison County, stay healthy!
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My knowledge of this is limited but I believe every state has a set of criteria for establishing in-state residency.
For Gunnison County specifically each home is registered as a primary residence or as a "secondary" residence. Home owners of vactaion homes pay more in property taxes since they are not shopping and contributing to the local tax base, but still require road, utility and other services to their vacation home.
These are certainly unique times, I'm not sure how this would play out in court if someone were to actually be arrested, although I doubt thats actually the goal. I believe the whole public health order is meant more as a deterrent to discourage those who don't live there fulltime from putting added pressure on local resources.
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04-08-2020, 01:02 PM
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#14
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Scoundrel
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Montrose, Colorado
Posts: 2,786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scheinin
You don't say who issued the Order. Unless it was done by the legislature, which I doubt it was, the chances of being convicted in court are slim and none. I would certainly represent them.
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County commisioners along with the county public health official.
https://kdvr.com/news/gunnison-count...itors-allowed/
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04-08-2020, 02:28 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HangDiver
These are certainly unique times, I'm not sure how this would play out in court if someone were to actually be arrested, although I doubt thats actually the goal. I believe the whole public health order is meant more as a deterrent to discourage those who don't live there fulltime from putting added pressure on local resources.
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Yup, I agree completely - hopefully that common sense we're all hoping for prevails and it's never tested.
Stay Safe!
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04-08-2020, 02:32 PM
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#16
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Dahagen
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Cascade Idaho
Posts: 560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomad297
The Constitution will always prevail. That’s the way everybody should want it to be if they are an American.
Bruce
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Right. The Constitution allows you to enjoy the property you own. Period.
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04-08-2020, 02:37 PM
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#17
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Southern California
Posts: 595
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dahagen
Right. The Constitution allows you to enjoy the property you own. Period.
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Well, not "Period." There are hundreds of exceptions to what would appear to be an absolute Constitutional right (e.g., the ol' chestnut: You have a Constitutional right to "free speech", but you don't have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater).
To the point made by Hang Diver, these are unique times . . .
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04-08-2020, 02:44 PM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Between Pickles Gap and Toad Suck, AR
Posts: 6,070
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoneSouth10
Well, not "Period." There are hundreds of exceptions to what would appear to be an absolute Constitutional right (e.g., the ol' chestnut: You have a Constitutional right to "free speech", but you don't have the right to yell "Fire" in a crowded theater).
To the point made by Hang Diver, these are unique times . . .
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You do if there's a fire in a crowded theater...................
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04-08-2020, 02:52 PM
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#19
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Grammar Pedant
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Frederick, CO
Posts: 1,580
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You don't even have to go that far. Just ask anyone who owns land that the government has deemed a Welands (in part or in whole). Ask those folks how much they get to enjoy their property.
With that said, I cannot imagine that any of these fines are constitutional ... though I am not a constitutional lawyer. I don't believe that appointed officials (such as health officials) can unilaterally say, "It's too dangerous here; you can't leave your home ... or run your business ... or even drive across our county line." That's a police state and it takes more than a health official to enact martial law.
I don't believe that the states will enforce any fines they levy. Denver has issued a dozen or so fines. I expect those will all be waived as soon as our "stay at home" order is lifted. No state government official or office will want a court to actually issue an opinion on their activities. You only get to wield supreme power over people's personal liberty in the future and it's only an effective scare tactic in the future if the court remains silent on its constitutionality.
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04-08-2020, 02:54 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: NE Florida
Posts: 289
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"imposing unnecessary burdens on health care, public services, first responders, food supplies and other essential services."
Second home owners are paying for the services too.
Yes, they like to collect the tax and I am sure they will refund or credit for the time they stop you from using your property. Don't bet on it.
Understand what the crisis is but this was settled in the seventeen hundreds. At a minimum compensation needs to be for loss of use.
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