Covid debate

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

Just wondering how much "Virus" would survive if there was a total lockdown for a month. Those with the virus would have it run it's course. Those without wouldn't contract it. You'd thing the "bug" would just burn itself out and go away.

I know that's not totally possible for obvious reasons but somehow the idea of a million people per day getting on airplanes and going to Thanksgiving celebrations doesn't make a ton of sense.

Probably wouldn't make a difference . just like the flu coming back every yr and different strains at that . but just wait a vaccine is on the way , and the 99.98% of the people that got it and got over it will not be an issue . Also we now have good treatments for those that do get it . Still have those that are at extreme risk that will have problems same with the Flu

[BajaFog]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Probably wouldn't make a difference . just like the flu coming back every yr and different strains at that . but just wait a vaccine is on the way , and the 99.98% of the people that got it and got over it will not be an issue . Also we now have good treatments for those that do get it . Still have those that are at extreme risk that will have problems same with the Flu

Well said, and refreshing to hear from someone with knowledge and experience on the subject.

I'm expecting to see new signs up in the windows of local businesses;

"No masks required with proof of vaccination."

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by MR.M

...and the 99.98% of the people that got it and got over it...

As of 12/2/2020:

Worldwide death rate 2.2%.

US death rate 2%.

NYT

[Iwritecode]

I read a tweet yesterday that said

"We broke 2,800 deaths today - the most COVID deaths ever in any nation. By tomorrow or Friday, we will have more deaths than on 9/11."

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by PodGeek

As of 12/2/2020:

Worldwide death rate 2.2%.

US death rate 2%.

NYT

Lets not get this thread shut down . still not at 1% of deaths per population in US and that's taking into account the thousands of deaths that are listed as covid but are not caused by covid the facts are out there on this . has been from the get go the more covid deaths listed the more money hospitals get. so if you're on your death bed with days to live and come down with covid it's classified as a covid death

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by BajaFog

Well said, and refreshing to hear from someone with knowledge and experience on the subject.

I'm expecting to see new signs up in the windows of local businesses;

"No masks required with proof of vaccination."

I hope not . if it gets to a point where you can't work , go out to eat , shop , etc if you don't have a vaccine then we are all in big trouble .

[PodGeek]

Originally Posted by MR.M

...still not at 1% of deaths per population in US...

Just correcting the poster who said that only 0.02% of the folks who get Covid pass away from it. It's closer to 2%.

Here's what was said:

"the 99.98% of the people that got it and got over it"

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by PodGeek

Just correcting the poster who said that only 0.02% of the folks who get Covid pass away from it. It's closer to 2%.

Here's what was said:

"the 99.98% of the people that got it and got over it"

That was me and that is correct for those under 70 !I should have been more clear . the percent goes up beyond 70 . it was 20% of people over 70 now it's 5% . so 99.98 % is accurate for those under 70 . for those under 20 it's 99.999% get over it

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by MR.M

has been from the get go the more covid deaths listed the more money hospitals get. so if you're on your death bed with days to live and come down with covid it's classified as a covid death

It's way more complicated than that.

First of all, it's only Medicare patients, not *all* patients and it's because of a bill that was passed through Congress to provide additional funding for hospitals who are having to deal with this pandemic and many are actually losing money because they can't schedule any other kinds of non-emergency surgeries.

So you are basically implying that hospitals are over-reporting their COVID patients because they have an economic advantage of doing so. Suggesting that patients may be put on ventilators out of financial gain, not medical need. That's essentially saying physicians are violating their Hippocratic Oath. It would be like providing heart surgery on someone who doesn’t need it.

Secondly, death certificates have multiple lines for cause of death. Yes someone can get into a car accident and die and still have covid. This likely won't be counted as a "covid death". The CDC and the WHO both have guidelines on this.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

It's way more complicated than that.

First of all, it's only Medicare patients, not *all* patients and it's because of a bill that was passed through Congress to provide additional funding for hospitals who are having to deal with this pandemic and many are actually losing money because they can't schedule any other kinds of non-emergency surgeries.

So you are basically implying that hospitals are over-reporting their COVID patients because they have an economic advantage of doing so. Suggesting that patients may be put on ventilators out of financial gain, not medical need. That's essentially saying physicians are violating their Hippocratic Oath. It would be like providing heart surgery on someone who doesn’t need it.

Secondly, death certificates have multiple lines for cause of death. Yes someone can get into a car accident and die and still have covid. This likely won't be counted as a "covid death". The CDC and the WHO both have guidelines on this.

Not all covid reported deaths end up coming off ventilators . In Florida they had a guy die in a motorcycle accident reported as a covid death , extreme example . you assume money doesn't talk and since most private hospital are all about money as most are privately owned in the biz of making money . all one has to do is follow the money . To assume righteousness of these hospitals and even doctors is extreme in this day and age of Fraud and self absorbed people . Doctors are no different then any body else and have no special exemption of evil of the love of money . to assume so would be rather naive don't you think ? Fact is anyone who dies from any reason that tests for covid is listed as a covid death . anyone who tests positive for covid gets added to the list of covid cases for the day if they test negative the next day they do not remove that number for the covid cases . The numbers of cases and deaths are greatly exagerated . This of course is my opinion formed from my watching this play out over the last 10 months and looking at all sides of it and reposts from all sides not just the MSM or certain scientist but all scientists even those that the main stream scientist's frown on . Just saying !

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Not all covid reported deaths end up coming off ventilators . In Florida they had a guy die in a motorcycle accident reported as a covid death , extreme example . you assume money doesn't talk and since most private hospital are all about money as most are privately owned in the biz of making money . all one has to do is follow the money . To assume righteousness of these hospitals and even doctors is extreme in this day and age of Fraud and self absorbed people . Doctors are no different then any body else and have no special exemption of evil of the love of money . to assume so would be rather naive don't you think ? Fact is anyone who dies from any reason that tests for covid is listed as a covid death . anyone who tests positive for covid gets added to the list of covid cases for the day if they test negative the next day they do not remove that number for the covid cases . The numbers of cases and deaths are greatly exagerated . This of course is my opinion formed from my watching this play out over the last 10 months and looking at all sides of it and reposts from all sides not just the MSM or certain scientist but all scientists even those that the main stream scientist's frown on . Just saying !

Again, its more complex than that. You can't just use one anecdotal example and just claim that all the numbers must be wrong. In fact, studies have shown that the numbers are under-reported if anything.

As far as all the doctors and nurses and first responders that have been working the front lines for the past year, I bet you could ask any one of them how much they care about making a few extra dollars for their employer vs. saving people lives.

Please stop listening to and repeating talking points, half-truths and conspiracy theories. Do a little bit of research to find out the actual truth.

[NMWildcat]

Currently, I don't think anyone knows the actual specifics of anything covid related. I figure we will know what really is happening, and what we should of done, and what the real numbers are, several years from now when it no longer matters.
The question I want answered is why it kills some folks and others it barely affects. That interests me the most.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Again, its more complex than that. You can't just use one anecdotal example and just claim that all the numbers must be wrong. In fact, studies have shown that the numbers are under-reported if anything.

As far as all the doctors and nurses and first responders that have been working the front lines for the past year, I bet you could ask any one of them how much they care about making a few extra dollars for their employer vs. saving people lives.

Please stop listening to and repeating talking points, half-truths and conspiracy theories. Do a little bit of research to find out the actual truth.

I would have to ask you the same thing of repeating talking points . front line workers first responders are not benefiting from this and i never suggested that . the hospitals are which are private and don't give a poop about people unlike their employees . it's about the money ! Studies have not shown under counts , over counts are going on daily with false positives .

you sir are entitled to your own opinions as am I but not your own facts . we all take in info and process it differently we all get different info and somewhere in the middle is some truth . some want to say this is like the flu pandemic of 1918 well the numbers say it's not even close . They projected 2.5 million dead in the us with in a few months well here it is 11 months later and not even close . For 2020 average number of deaths are down not up even with the pandemic . This has been political more then medical .

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by MR.M

I would have to ask you the same thing of repeating talking points . front line workers first responders are not benefiting from this and i never suggested that . the hospitals are which are private and don't give a poop about people unlike their employees . it's about the money ! Studies have not shown under counts , over counts are going on daily with false positives .

you sir are entitled to your own opinions as am I but not your own facts . we all take in info and process it differently we all get different info and somewhere in the middle is some truth . some want to say this is like the flu pandemic of 1918 well the numbers say it's not even close . They projected 2.5 million dead in the us with in a few months well here it is 11 months later and not even close . For 2020 average number of deaths are down not up even with the pandemic . This has been political more then medical .

Yea... no. We are way over. Where are you getting your info?

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/...aths-covid-19/

Now, in the most updated count to date, researchers at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have found that nearly 300,000 more people in the United States died from late January to early October this year compared the average number of people who died in recent years. Just two-thirds of those deaths were counted as Covid-19 fatalities, highlighting how the official U.S. death count — now standing at about 220,000 — is not fully inclusive.

And I already explained the extra money hostpitals are getting for Covid patients. You apparently didn't read it. They are not charging more on purpose. Medicaid is simply paying them more. It's not like the hospital administrators are simply jacking up prices on Covid patients on purpose.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by NMWildcat

Currently, I don't think anyone knows the actual specifics of anything covid related. I figure we will know what really is happening, and what we should of done, and what the real numbers are, several years from now when it no longer matters.
The question I want answered is why it kills some folks and others it barely affects. That interests me the most.

I actually did read an article about this and they were researching it. I'm sure they'll figure it out eventually but from what I remember, it's some chemical or something in people's DNA that some have and others don't that determines how their body reacts to the virus.

I know there are a lot of diseases that simply affect people differently. Personally, I either had an extremely mild case of chicken pox when I was a kid and never noticed it or I just have some sort of natural immunity to it. I've never had the full blown disease as far as I know.

2 out of my 3 kids had it when they were little and it never affected me at all.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Yea... no. We are way over. Where are you getting your info?

https://www.statnews.com/2020/10/20/...aths-covid-19/



And I already explained the extra money hostpitals are getting for Covid patients. You apparently didn't read it. They are not charging more on purpose. Medicaid is simply paying them more. It's not like the hospital administrators are simply jacking up prices on Covid patients on purpose.

Come on man . none of this takes into account all the extra deaths that were preventable . like suicide , cancer , drug od or people that were all ready dying that tested postive for covid . Like i said you can believe what you think are real stats none of which are . Covid is not anywhere close the the flu of 1918 . the number of deaths are not even close to actual and are way less when you take into account all the variables which your little link does not

https://towardsdatascience.com/lesso...s-57060c0d2f19

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Come on man . none of this takes into account all the extra deaths that were preventable . like suicide , cancer , drug od or people that were all ready dying that tested postive for covid . Like i said you can believe what you think are real stats none of which are . Covid is not anywhere close the the flu of 1918 . the number of deaths are not even close to actual and are way less when you take into account all the variables which your little link does not

https://towardsdatascience.com/lesso...s-57060c0d2f19

The stats come from the CDC. If you don't want to believe them, then I don't know what to tell you.

Here's the link from within the article with all the research.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/...cid=mm6942e2_w

They are comparing the number deaths in a "normal" year vs. the number this year MINUS the covid deaths. So yes, they are counting all the people that died of suicide , cancer , drug od, etc..

[SailorSam20500]

My comment on this -

Michigan and Sweden have fairly close total population numbers.

Michigan has been locked down to varying degrees and has a huge marketing campaign telling everyone to stay home and wear masks. Public schools closed or have significant amounts of virtual learning. Don't visit anyone, don't travel, etc.
Sweden Schools open (never closed), Guidance from government to limit gatherings to max of 50 people. Restaurants open - no gathering at the bar, otherwise, no limits. Reported by one of the big 3 news channels - only the reporter was wearing a mask (showed video of streets, restaurants, subway).
Result of the differences - number of cases, number of people going into intensive care, number of deaths - very similar, maybe lower in Sweden.
I have also seen a number of reports that the number of suicide deaths and deaths from drug over doses in US is up substantially. Are these Covid deaths?
Link to official Swedish statistics: https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by SailorSam20500

My comment on this -

Michigan and Sweden have fairly close total population numbers.

Michigan has been locked down to varying degrees and has a huge marketing campaign telling everyone to stay home and wear masks. Public schools closed or have significant amounts of virtual learning. Don't visit anyone, don't travel, etc.
Sweden Schools open (never closed), Guidance from government to limit gatherings to max of 50 people. Restaurants open - no gathering at the bar, otherwise, no limits. Reported by one of the big 3 news channels - only the reporter was wearing a mask (showed video of streets, restaurants, subway).
Result of the differences - number of cases, number of people going into intensive care, number of deaths - very similar, maybe lower in Sweden.
I have also seen a number of reports that the number of suicide deaths and deaths from drug over doses in US is up substantially. Are these Covid deaths?
Link to official Swedish statistics: https://experience.arcgis.com/experi...6f9f87457ed9aa

Sweden's cases have been rising recently.



https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

[SailorSam20500]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Sweden's cases have been rising recently.

Attachment 244102

https://time.com/5899432/sweden-coronovirus-disaster/

No faster than they have been in Michigan... Yesterday's Michigan death report was something north of 100...