Sign that the COVID camper surge is ending?

[Sharon455]

When I bought my last house, about 4 years before marrying my husband I had every intention for it to be my final home. Of course I bought right before the bubble burst and got married while it was still underwater. We carried that home for 6 or 7 years with only one short-term renter in it before selling it at a slight loss. (At least on paper, 7 years of mortgage payments added up to a pretty payment but it was time to stop the bleeding.)
My point to Mr. M is I would not have been foreclosed on unless I just stopped making payments. Now, if I had not retired beforehand would the pandemic have left me jobless where I had no choice? Doubtful, but you never really know.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

That's quite a blanket statement. Not sure I would agree with you in principle.

You only experience a loss or gain on a house if you sell it. The only other way the "value" changes is if you use the "equity" in it for "leverage" to get money out of it to do something else with the $$. Every person I know that owns a house is aware that the market goes up and down all the time.

The only thing I've realized is that my property taxes go up every year. No matter if the "value" appreciates or depreciates.

Blanket statement can't say i agree with that . when prices go from 79,000 to 149,000 in less then 2 yrs that's a bubble caused by the covid scare . if you buy a place for 200,000 and it drops in value to 130,000 or less you don't sale and take a loss you hang tight and hope the value returns either way you lost equity that effects borrowing. As long as you don't have to sale you're good but now factor in income loss ,medical expenses and other things that can force a sale then you lose . Not to mention Banks changing the way they handle things see you've lost 50% value and call in the note .

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Sharon455

When I bought my last house, about 4 years before marrying my husband I had every intention for it to be my final home. Of course I bought right before the bubble burst and got married while it was still underwater. We carried that home for 6 or 7 years with only one short-term renter in it before selling it at a slight loss. (At least on paper, 7 years of mortgage payments added up to a pretty payment but it was time to stop the bleeding.)
My point to Mr. M is I would not have been foreclosed on unless I just stopped making payments. Now, if I had not retired beforehand would the pandemic have left me jobless where I had no choice? Doubtful, but you never really know.

But people do stop making payments when they lose their jobs and circumstances change . during the first 1.5 yrs of Covid many quit making payments on their houses thinking they would be protected only to find that once the government protected plan ran out that they made need to come up with all back payments at once . we are just at the beginning of the collapse just wait 6 months and lets see how things change .

[Nick Danger]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Blanket statement can't say i agree with that . when prices go from 79,000 to 149,000 in less then 2 yrs that's a bubble caused by the covid scare . if you buy a place for 200,000 and it drops in value to 130,000 or less you don't sale and take a loss you hang tight and hope the value returns either way you lost equity that effects borrowing. As long as you don't have to sale you're good but now factor in income loss ,medical expenses and other things that can force a sale then you lose . Not to mention Banks changing the way they handle things see you've lost 50% value and call in the note .

This only applies if you're upside down on the note. Bought my house in 2001. The recession hit in 2008. I lost 25% of "value" only if I sold. My note was under the accessed value because I didn't take on more than I could afford so no issue. Now after 20+ years, my house is "valued" at +100% (it doubled). But I have not lost or gained any actual $$ because I still live in the house. I'm sure that my house will come down in price again but I never used my house's equity as an ATM so I never got caught up in the ups and downs.
The second issue of stop making payments is separate. If you borrowed the money and agreed to the terms; you have a responsibility to pay the note or lose the collateral. It's a legal contract. If you don't understand the way a contract works you should never sign it!!! I understand about hard times but if you quit paying to the lender you just spread the hard time to others.
Not trying to diminish your point or view; just making sure I understand what your saying. Every transaction comes with risks. If your willing to accept the risk - complete the transaction. I know several people that had their notes called in. Some lost their homes but most did not. And to me if this scenario happened to you, it seems self inflicted.
A lesson I learned very early in life - "Money doesn't care who has it."

I hope the new year brings you peace and prosperity!

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Nick Danger

This only applies if you're upside down on the note. Bought my house in 2001. The recession hit in 2008. I lost 25% of "value" only if I sold. My note was under the accessed value because I didn't take on more than I could afford so no issue. Now after 20+ years, my house is "valued" at +100% (it doubled). But I have not lost or gained any actual $$ because I still live in the house. I'm sure that my house will come down in price again but I never used my house's equity as an ATM so I never got caught up in the ups and downs.
The second issue of stop making payments is separate. If you borrowed the money and agreed to the terms; you have a responsibility to pay the note or lose the collateral. It's a legal contract. If you don't understand the way a contract works you should never sign it!!! I understand about hard times but if you quit paying to the lender you just spread the hard time to others.
Not trying to diminish your point or view; just making sure I understand what your saying. Every transaction comes with risks. If your willing to accept the risk - complete the transaction. I know several people that had their notes called in. Some lost their homes but most did not. And to me if this scenario happened to you, it seems self inflicted.
A lesson I learned very early in life - "Money doesn't care who has it."

I hope the new year brings you peace and prosperity!

Well we are getting off topic . And you clearly read things into my posts that are not there . The Housing price increases of the last 2 yrs are a bubble plain and simple . i could go into all the money i made on houses over the last 30 yrs but that's not the point . The RV's people are paying a premium for now will cost them in the coming months/yrs same with the houses that people are buying at an inflated price . They will pay with loss of equity .Yes keep the house 20 ,30 yrs and make your money back and then some . Won't be the same for people buying Rv's these last 2 yrs as they just go down in price . people that got more then they paid is a once in a lifetime occurrence same with trucks . it will not stay this way and Rv'er that bought over the last couple yrs will lose way more then someone who bought before this . the prices will drop like a rock in water the market was flooded with units flying off the lots . Now the reverse will be the norm the manufactures will be laying off people and back to lots full and a buyers market . Same with houses just not as dramatic and housing will bounce back over time RV's will not

[NJKris]

Well, at least RV's are a luxury. Toys. If you go into debt to own one, especially if you have other debts, it's pretty financially irresponsible. The vast, vast majority of people buying these things are not living in them full time because they can't afford houses. And if they are, they are not buying new.

[chriscowles]

Can we redirect the conversation back to the market for RVs?

[dblr]

We just came across I-70 and going thru Missouri there are a lot of rv dealers you can see from the road and EVERY lot was loaded with campers so I would say that buying must have slowed down.

[TowPro]

or they over priced themselves. The RV market will be adjusting before the housing market. And now that there is a glut, I think the RV manufactures should stick it back to all the suppliers that stuck them with large price increases.


I should take that back, because if the suppliers suffer, LCI will buy them all out and we know how there quality is.

[Lee Pedrick]

Camp ground fees are getting so high, We cant afford to pay them any more.East coast water side campgrounds are over 200 bucks a night because of all the RV's being sold. Been camping over 60 yrs. I think hotels are cheaper now.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

... East coast water side campgrounds are over 200 bucks a night ...

Wow

[TowPro]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

Camp ground fees are getting so high, We cant afford to pay them any more.East coast water side campgrounds are over 200 bucks a night because of all the RV's being sold. Been camping over 60 yrs. I think hotels are cheaper now.

Another reason I jumped on the offer to sell the RV at a profit. Example:

Our number one destination used to be the KOA in Outerbanks (used to visit 30 nights per year) (owned by KOA corporate).
Next spring they are charging $182 per night based on 2 week trip with sites available.
If I put one weekend in the reservation form (over this same period) it says no sites are available so they are holding sites on weekends to fill whole week slots.
Back in August 2021 I think it was $132. 2 years ago I think it was around $90. I can't afford to go camping anymore.

[chriscowles]

Originally Posted by TowPro

Another reason I jumped on the offer to sell the RV at a profit. ...

I predict you'll soon be able to buy a new one at a discount but that doesn't change the cost of camping.

[NJKris]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

Camp ground fees are getting so high, We cant afford to pay them any more.East coast water side campgrounds are over 200 bucks a night because of all the RV's being sold. Been camping over 60 yrs. I think hotels are cheaper now.

Where the heck are you camping at 200 bucks per night? I just checked receipts for last year's trips. I paid $103 per night, taxes included, at Hatteras Sands on the Outer Banks, NC. Double-wide site, on the water (canal). This year staying at Frisco Woods, directly on the sound. The pool is not olympic size like Hatteras Sands, but it is only around $80 something per night.


Granted, the OBX is not Hilton Head Island, and I go after Labor Day when rates are lower.



Also did 4 nights in early October directly on the water near Fenwick Island in Delaware in 2020 for $108 per night.

[5er_tom]

We were on the Oregon coast last year. Not ocean front but a great ocean view. $95.00 a night.
I would not pay $200 for ANY campsite.

[stephensatt]

So the lots were pretty empty, much like the new car dealer lots and that was probably up to last year 2021 to mid - year 2021. I am seeing the lots are full of vehicles now driving by them, this is in Houston area.

So also, I did allot of "Covid Bugging out" during 2020-2021 , mainly too Oklahoma, and Arkansas, Branson, Middle Earth America and it was great! No lockdowns or any BS we ran into and the trailer park owners were all saying the same thing. Best 2 years they ever had and sorry to see it go, its starting to wind down.

I know this much, glad I am an RVer. I like the freedom, especially the FREE lodging overnight on long long drives. We are planning a trip right now to New Mexico and need hotel rooms for family and and they gotta deal with that, with a 2 day drive, we just Boon it overnight it at the Big Texan Steakhouse RV lot in Amarillo from Houston to Taos, free, but NOT for the relatives.

[NJKris]

I like the freedom, especially the FREE lodging overnight on long long drives.

I like to think that too, but I did the math, and by time you calculate money your poured into RV (and my setup is on the cheaper side), fuel, etc, it's probably cheaper staying in 5 star hotels, lol.

[GPs37FLH]

Originally Posted by Lee Pedrick

Camp ground fees are getting so high, We cant afford to pay them any more.East coast water side campgrounds are over 200 bucks a night because of all the RV's being sold. Been camping over 60 yrs. I think hotels are cheaper now.

Totally agree that fees are getting to the point where it's too much to go camping any longer. For us, it's going to mean less trips to the east coast beaches (especially the OBX) and when we do go, it'll be for shorter stays.

However, it's still more than likely going to be the cheapest option to vacation if you can get reservations. Although I haven't checked, I'll bet anything the same BnB rentals, hotels, motels, etc. have daily or weekly rates that have also doubled (or more) in the last two years. I'm sure their costs have skyrocketed as much as they have for campgrounds. Paying $200 a night may be a lot more palatable than what may now be $400, $500, $600, or more per night stay with other alternatives in the same area.

[NCThiker]

Originally Posted by llr

I heard somewhere that in addition to the driver shortage many were moved to storage lots due to part shortages, not unlike the auto industry with the chip shortage

Nephew works at FR factory and said there was a huge backlog waiting on glass windows.

[TowPro]

Kris, if your really into OBX the KOA has a fisherman's special in fall Your not going to see it written, your going to have to ask and they will pretend they never heard of it until after labor-day.

last year I think it was October was $1000, November was $800. Even less if your saying longer. There is several people who do that starting mid September. Down there its beach season through around late October than it gets a little cold for sitting in the sand. I think we were in for 1/2 October and 1/2 November. By than the only restaurant open was watermans retreat which closed early November and Lisa's pizza.


they used to have a deal where you could have 30 nights used anytime between mid September and Easter for like $600 but they said it was too hard to keep track of it.