Washington state just issued wide ranging restrictions.

[Reverse_snowbird]

I want an explanation as to what is filling our hospitals to overflowing if it's not Covid 19 ?

[Traveling Circus]

Originally Posted by dieselguy

Just generalizing here ... if some posting here feel the Covid is no more than any other flu ... the numbers are inflated ... it's all about misinformation ... then why here in Wichita are our hospitals ICU beds near capacity with Covid patients ... why is there a refrigerated truck parked next to the funeral home back in my small hometown in Missouri because they don't have room for all the deceased? Neither of these examples have ever happened before.
If we ever have another great war, this country is sunk because we have evolved to the point that we generally defy being told what to do nor can we get together on a common direction.

Bingo. I’ll never accept the government mandating (being told what to do) unconstitutional orders. Never. That’s my right.

[Traveling Circus]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

I want an explanation as to what is filling our hospitals to overflowing if it's not Covid 19 ?

If mask and lockdowns are affective against the virus, then why are hospitals filling up?

[Schantile]

In response to the topic, not a particular person:

I have been a registered nurse since 1984. It has been my life day after day, and year after year. I work in a hospital in Ft. Worth, TX. Our ICU is full. Our ER is overflowing. We have patients on beds in the hallways. People have Covid and people are dyeing from Covid and it's complications! If you have been fortunate enough that you and your loved ones haven't gotten it, then good for you.
Wearing a mask is a courtesy to everyone else you encounter. People can be contagious and totally symptom free. Shame on those who are too selfish to care about others. One person might get it and do fine. But that same person also might spread it, and the other person dies.
Unless you work in a hospital, don't state facts about what's reality.
BTW, I got my first dose of the vaccine today. Gladly, I will step up and do my part to help take care of others.

[TitanMike]

One look at news reports showing large gatherings with few wearing masks, and reading here how some refuse to wear masks, should answer your question. Considering how many just one can infect it should be a no-brainer.

Originally Posted by Traveling Circus

If mask and lockdowns are affective against the virus, then why are hospitals filling up?

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by TitanMike

I'll rely on the experts that have studied and worked in their field for years, even decades, rather than social media influenced conjecture.

Hmmm... "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask", Dr. Anthony Fauci - March 8, 2020. He had studied and worked in his field for decades before making that statement. You would have though he would have known better.

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Hmmm... "There's no reason to be walking around with a mask", Dr. Anthony Fauci - March 8, 2020. He had studied and worked in his field for decades before making that statement. You would have though he would have known better.

This isn't March. March was back at the beginning when nobody really knew much about Covid.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by Traveling Circus

If mask and lockdowns are affective against the virus, then why are hospitals filling up?

Masks and lockdowns are effective IF people wear masks and lockdown. People aren't wearing masks. We wouldn't have to lock down if people would wear a mask.

[NavyLCDR]

Here's the problem that I see. There can be 200 people in WalMart, all wearing masks. But the restaurant that has partitions set up between booths, tables without partitions are >6 ft apart, they disinfect tables and chairs between customers - the government says they have to close. 100s of thousands of business owners and their employees have completely lost their livelihoods and don't know how they are going to feed their families or make their mortgage or car payments because the governor of the state who now has unlimited power has ordered them to close.

And that's what really, really, really gets me. It is the unlimited power these single politicians have. Last time I looked up the definition of tyranny it was "a government in which absolute power is vested in a single ruler." There is no need now, after this "state of emergency" has been going on for months that these tyrannical governors need to retain sole power. Their unlimited power needed to be checked months ago and the management of this pandemic turned over to the state legislatures. But, instead, based on the stroke of a single person's pen, thousands of people have no way to support themselves or their families.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Here's the problem that I see. There can be 200 people in WalMart, all wearing masks.

I agree that 200 people in WalMart wearing masks while indoor restaurants are forced to close doesn't seem right to me either. A person in our household has been out of work since March, won't be going back to work until March 2021 at the earliest, is running out of unemployment benefits on Dec. 26, and has lost at least 2 family members and more friends to Covid 19.
Obviously our 'tyrannical governors' aren't able to keep people from large gatherings and forcing them to wear masks. I have no objection to anyone not wearing a mask. Just keep away from everyone else and you won't get or spread the virus.

[Dirt Sifter]

Behind bars makes a good point. When someone dies from the blunt force trauma in a traffic crash, they are counted as a traffic fatality. Up until the medical examiner's tests show the presence of Covid some five to twenty days later. Then that tick mark is moved to the Covid line. How many of the other deaths with underlying conditions really died from those conditions and just happened to have Covid? I do not believe the numbers being cited because the politicians are keeping them.

[Mr Towed]

Originally Posted by Dirt Sifter

Behind bars makes a good point. When someone dies from the blunt force trauma in a traffic crash, they are counted as a traffic fatality. Up until the medical examiner's tests show the presence of Covid some five to twenty days later. Then that tick mark is moved to the Covid line. How many of the other deaths with underlying conditions really died from those conditions and just happened to have Covid? I do not believe the numbers being cited because the politicians are keeping them.

Again, as the RN stated, this is real; no amount of number shuffling from accidents / flu / heart attacks / suicide etc would necessitate lining up refrigerated trailers at hospitals to accommodate all the additional dead bodies.

[Beachbourbon]

Originally Posted by Traveling Circus

If mask and lockdowns are affective against the virus, then why are hospitals filling up?

And why are prisoners getting it? They have been in the ultimate lockdown the whole time. You cannot be any more quarantined than prison

[Beachbourbon]

Originally Posted by Mr Towed

Again, as the RN stated, this is real; no amount of number shuffling from accidents / flu / heart attacks / suicide etc would necessitate lining up refrigerated trailers at hospitals to accommodate all the additional dead bodies.

I haven't seen full ICUs or refrigerated boxes, or even one funeral. I also don't know anyone who has died. The three people I know personally that got it were fine and fully recovered long before the 14 day quarantine period ended.

Real life and online/TV news life are two completely different things IMHO.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by Beachbourbon

I haven't seen full ICUs or refrigerated boxes, or even one funeral. I also don't know anyone who has died. The three people I know personally that got it were fine and fully recovered long before the 14 day quarantine period ended.

Real life and online/TV news life are two completely different things IMHO.

Exactly right. Anecdotal evidence is usually worthless, I'll take the news from the people on the front lines reporting the numbers over some random person any day.

[MR.M]

Originally Posted by Beachbourbon

I haven't seen full ICUs or refrigerated boxes, or even one funeral. I also don't know anyone who has died. The three people I know personally that got it were fine and fully recovered long before the 14 day quarantine period ended.

Real life and online/TV news life are two completely different things IMHO.

Agreed a Bunch of BS being spread and the fear factor and lies are off the charts . Colorado grand county coroner states she's forced to change deaths to covid if people tested positive for it with in 30 days even for people killed by gun shot listed as covid . Life insurance companies love it cause it become a natural cause of death instead of accident which would pay out twice as much . AMA come out and say Hydroxyclorquine works now and could have saved thousands and lessen the effects of covid to millions . some people think where they get their numbers are correct but in the end the covid numbers are false to the tenth degree . hospitals are not overflowing and body bags are not piling up . and the avrage yearly death rate is still less then or just equal to a normal yr .

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Exactly right. Anecdotal evidence is usually worthless, I'll take the news from the people on the front lines reporting the numbers over some random person any day.

But is taking away the livelihood of 100s of thousands of people by forcing the closure of small businesses and restaurants really the answer? I stopped for lunch at a tavern in the tiny little town of Halsey, Oregon for lunch the Saturday before the governor's order to shutdown went into effect the following Wednesday. This little place never has more than 10 people in it at a time. They were complying with all the COVID precautions. The waitress/bartender had no idea how she was going to make her rent/mortgage payment (not sure which) or car payment or feed her family when they closed. She used most of her unemployment the first time they were forced to close by the governor, and her unemployment is only a couple hundred dollars per week (now that there is no Federal aid because.... well nevermind) with only a few weeks left.

The owner is now in bankruptcy and her 4-5 employees are unemployed. All the employees of this tiny tavern in backwoods Oregon have ever done is waitress/bartender. Is it really worth it to nearly destroy the lives of these people? Really?!?!!!

Masks? Who cares. Just wear the dang thing. It's a tiny inconvenience. But stop the forced closure of businesses and destroying workers livelihoods because of arbitrary decisions made by politicians who have now found the glory of being a tyrant because they have discovered their unlimited power that comes with their own declarations of state of emergency.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

But is taking away the livelihood of 100s of thousands of people by forcing the closure of small businesses and restaurants really the answer? I stopped for lunch at a tavern in the tiny little town of Halsey, Oregon for lunch the Saturday before the governor's order to shutdown went into effect the following Wednesday. This little place never has more than 10 people in it at a time. They were complying with all the COVID precautions. The waitress/bartender had no idea how she was going to make her rent/mortgage payment (not sure which) or car payment or feed her family when they closed. She used most of her unemployment the first time they were forced to close by the governor, and her unemployment is only a couple hundred dollars per week (now that there is no Federal aid because.... well nevermind) with only a few weeks left.

The owner is now in bankruptcy and her 4-5 employees are unemployed. All the employees of this tiny tavern in backwoods Oregon have ever done is waitress/bartender. Is it really worth it to nearly destroy the lives of these people? Really?!?!!!

Masks? Who cares. Just wear the dang thing. It's a tiny inconvenience. But stop the forced closure of businesses and destroying workers livelihoods because of arbitrary decisions made by politicians who have now found the glory of being a tyrant because they have discovered their unlimited power that comes with their own declarations of state of emergency.

Honestly, I understand the complaints of the business owners. They are really stuck with no other choice since nobody seems to want to help them out. Our leaders failed us badly by not simply paying everyone to stay home for a month or so at the beginning. If people still had money to pay the bills or the bill were frozen for a month or 2, they'd be much more willing to comply with the shutdown orders. We are way past that point now.As I said before, the vaccine is our only hope now.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by MR.M

Agreed a Bunch of BS being spread and the fear factor and lies are off the charts . Colorado grand county coroner states she's forced to change deaths to covid if people tested positive for it with in 30 days even for people killed by gun shot listed as covid . Life insurance companies love it cause it become a natural cause of death instead of accident which would pay out twice as much . AMA come out and say Hydroxyclorquine works now and could have saved thousands and lessen the effects of covid to millions . some people think where they get their numbers are correct but in the end the covid numbers are false to the tenth degree . hospitals are not overflowing and body bags are not piling up . and the avrage yearly death rate is still less then or just equal to a normal yr .

Wow, now your just being willfully ignorant.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...helmed/617301/

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...m-supply-chain

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/h...-overload.html

[TitanMike]

Originally Posted by Iwritecode

Wow, now your just being willfully ignorant.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...helmed/617301/

https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...m-supply-chain

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/27/h...-overload.html

Remember the old saying: "Don't try to convince me with facts, my mind is already made up" ???

Watched the CBS evening news last night and the news from So Cal is dire. Zero hospital beds available. Ambulances not able to unload patients for up to seven hours because there's NO place for them.

It's real but there those that seem to be living in an alternate reality and refuse to accept facts that can't be hidden or tampered with. Apparently they figure that as long as it hasn't touched them or their loved ones it has to be "fake news" and a "giant conspiracy".

To those who believe the social media BS about hospitals benefitting from the Covid-19 pandemic perhaps they should read this:

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jam...rticle/2765698

Considering that the "business" that is most profitable for hospitals is admissions for elective procedures, it boggles the mind how people can think hospitals are overjoyed in losing 30% of their revenue. Wonder how people who think hospitals are benefitting would do if suddenly 30% of their income was cut off?

Also, how many of the Covid-19 patients are uninsured or indigent who's treatment costs ends up being written off each year?