F-150 PowerBoost towing a 33' Hemisphere 26BHHL ?

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

My latest calculations are as follows. Just trying to see if I am over any capacity. This is not the ProPride but a regular 100# WDH. The propane bottles are already present so this is fill weight only. I am putting on 1 lithium battery 100AH.

F-150
Sticker vs. Estimated Weight:
Limit:
12400 7700 Trailer weight loaded
1400 1115 Tongue weight loaded
1489 1555** Payload
4150 3835 Rear axle
7350 7355 Gross F150 weight

**The Payload Capacity, as expected, is overloaded by 66 pounds (and GVWR by 5#). The PowerBoost has 340# less payload than the same spec'd EcoBoost, I assume due to the motor, battery, inverter, maybe the 3.73 axle is a lower spec than the 3.55, dunno.

You don't need to comment on the fact that this is just on paper and I need to take real measurements, I will.

But is there anything I can do to help the payload out, things that are worth it in a practical way? An adjustable air bag setup (or similar) seems like a good idea but I don't see how they could help the payload, just the rear sag.
And how much would the soft ride without a trailer suffer.

This is my final question and thanks for all the help!

To help out your payload I have an easy fix. Find your lightest grandkid, or kid, and have them drive the truck and trailer. You and your better half load everything you need in another vehicle and follow them.
I'm not sure what else to suggest. It has been recommended about 30 times on this post by many others of how the truck you bought is either on the edge or under capacity for pulling this trailer.
Again, you've made up your mind on your set-up. Good luck to ya.

[GolfingDave]

Before you go and get the trailer measure from a point above the front and rear axles centered on the axle to the bottom of the fender wells or put a piece of tape on the side of the truck and leave it. Or if you do not want to leave it on measure up a couple of inches from the top of the fender wells and use that as a reference. Just use the same point before and after.

Do it on level ground. Then do the same thing with the trailer attached, maybe even do it when they are done setting it up and before you leave. Remember many drives and streets are not level. Parking lots usually are more level than drives.

Read in your owners manual for the truck on setting up a WDH.
You should be able to download a manual for the hitch. Look at it. They are probably going to differ a bit but the concepts are the same.

You can not forget about the front axle weights. You seem to be only focused on the rear weights.

[glen1971]

Here are a couple of pics from our trailer.
The first picture, granted it's dark outside, shows the water tank drain and overflows ahead of the front axle.

The second picture is the sticker on the side of our trailer.
Dry Weight is 6 876#.
Cargo Weight is 2,319#, which includes a full water tank and heater. This is 456#.
This takes the trailer to 9,195#.
Add to it the weight of the 3 waste tanks of 747#, and the total weight is 9,942#.

12% of that is 1,193# for an estimated tongue weight.

[Cabinfever97]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

The dealer is forcing me to buy his WFH installed for $600. Liability reasons. Ok fine. It is 100# lighter than the ProPride I figure, so that will help my tongue weight and payload which are both in trouble. So I'll try it out first while I'm measuring actual weights and adjusting. Good to know about your numbers and truck differences, I haven't heard anyone say the ProPride make anything worse, usually rave about it (ok the tongue weight is worse!).

I didn't mention in my previous post, we have a Hensley. Towing with the F250 it is possible to get complacent about having the TT back there. Sometimes I have to remind myself that there is a 34-foot 8500lb trailer back there.

[dalford]

Originally Posted by Mike134

Nobody worries about brakes. If they did you think they would be pulling those huge 5th wheels with just a 1 ton truck?

The guy pulling 16000 lbs with a 1ton is in just as much trouble as the 1/2T pulling 8000lbs if the trailer brakes fail.

Oh and in the Ford line the 1 ton brakes are the same size as a 3/4 ton.

Electric trailer brakes leave a lot to be had regardless of the size of truck. That why I upgraded my fifth wheel to electric over hydraulic brakes.. best mod I ever made/paid for. I told DW the other day that I love the disc brakes.

I had a wheel failure (previously posted) that caused me to disable one of the disc brakes. The RV stopped on 3 disc brakes far better the 4 electric brakes.. but I digress.

I would not tow that combination even if you upgraded brakes. Too long, too heavy and you say the truck is a hybrid..hmmm…

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by GolfingDave

Before you go and get the trailer measure from a point above the front and rear axles centered on the axle to the bottom of the fender wells or put a piece of tape on the side of the truck and leave it. Or if you do not want to leave it on measure up a couple of inches from the top of the fender wells and use that as a reference. Just use the same point before and after.

Do it on level ground. Then do the same thing with the trailer attached, maybe even do it when they are done setting it up and before you leave. Remember many drives and streets are not level. Parking lots usually are more level than drives.

Read in your owners manual for the truck on setting up a WDH.
You should be able to download a manual for the hitch. Look at it. They are probably going to differ a bit but the concepts are the same.

You can not forget about the front axle weights. You seem to be only focused on the rear weights.

Thanks for that. I didn't mention the front axle because it is not close. Front GAWR is 3900# and CAT reading with me in the front was 2600#, no trailer.

[richp]

Such a huge amount of decision making effort, only to wind up with a package that is marginal, at best.

[moose074]

If I was a betting man I would say 70-75 % of people who haul are overweight according to payload. I would go even further and say that 95% of us have no understanding of the payload sticker. All one has to do is look at hot shot drivers/ car haulers that are required to stop at every open weigh station. So how is it theses trucks are legally able to do this? Some say because the truck is registered at a higher weight rating just by paying a higher amount no mechanical changes made. The attached picture is one I took at a truck on l-40 Texas New Mexico border it was a Ram 3500 Just imagine the legal consequences of a company making money hauling over payload. These truck’s from all 3 manufacturers have 100,000 miles on them.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

I liked your reasoning on the squat issue, but I will not want it to squat so I will probably use something adjustable like airbags, assuming I can get the same smooth ride when I don't have a trailer on (99% of the time).

Not sure I understand what you are thinking here.

The whole purpose of a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) is to get some weight OFF the rear axle and ON to the front axle. There are three reasons to want to do this:

1. To keep the rear axle load within specs
2. To put weight back on the front axle so it steers properly, not as if you were on an icy road *
3. To get the headlights to aim properly so you don't blind oncoming drivers.

If you do this, the vehicle won't squat. It will be roughly level, just a little lower at both ends.**

The proper way to do this is to first, when unloaded, measure the distance from the top of a FRONT tire to the fender edge (or similar measurement). When the trailer is hooked up, this measurement will increase as the front end rises. Adjust the WDH so that the measurement decreases to within an inch of the original, unloaded distance. You don't need to consider rear axle measurements.

Some comments on items (2) and (3) above.
*Last summer my grandson and I went to pick up some treated lumber in our Sierra 2500 HD with towing package. I noticed while loading that the truck had gone from tail-high to level and was putting a good deal of pressure on the overload springs. I mentioned it to the yard owner and he ran a quick calculation on the weight and told us we had 3,000 lbs. of lumber aboard. My grandson and I each weigh about 160. I took a look at the door sticker: "Weight of passengers and cargo should not exceed 3160 lbs." My drive home was 12 miles at 90°F on dry pavement, but it felt like I was driving on ice. The truck was very slow to respond to small steering movements and I was afraid to make larger movements for fear of oversteering.

**As a youth, back in the 1960s, my brother bent the fender of the truck I used for newspaper delivery. The headlight pointed way up in the sky. As I drove at 4:30 am, I would wake sleeping birds and the waking birds would drop white stuff on the windshield just as I drove under them, every morning.

[njfishing]

You really can’t do anything to improve your payload short of taking weight out of the truck. Having said this, the one thing you might experience towing on the heavy side is rear end squat, even with a WDH and increased and annoying bounce going over uneven roads. Roadmaster active suspension can help here since it makes the leaf springs more firm under load but does not effect your unloaded ride. https://activesuspension.com/pages/ras

Sounds to me like you’ve made the decision to give your trailer and truck combination a try. I’m towing with my 2018 Lariat with the max trailer tow package and I’m right at my payload limit, maybe over depending what I have in the truck so besides roadmaster, here are some tips for you.

- You want to take your time adjusting the weight distribution hitch and when you do this your tow vehicle and trailer should be loaded as if you we’re going on a trip. First time I towed my trailer I thought the hitch was adjusted fairly well and when I got on the highway I thought I made a big mistake since was swaying all over the place at 50 MPH. It wasn’t until I made the adjustments to the hitch that I felt safe. This means not making your first tow a long trip. Take it on the highway briefly and be prepared to pull off the highway and make adjustments until you get it dialed in.

- Inflate your tow vehicle tires to the max cold PSI listed on the tire. This helps firm up your ride and sidewalls to help mitigate bounce and sidewall flexing. Some people will switch to e rated tires for this reason since they tend to be stiffer and have higher psi ratings then what will likely be p rated tires you get with your truck.

- Go slow. I’m usually running right around 60 MPH and the few times I wasn’t paying attention and got to 65 and over the trailer got squirrely.

- Leave yourself plenty of room for stopping and for emergency maneuvers since this is where the weight is likely to cause the most problems.

- Get used to being passed by semi trucks and don’t panic when it feels like your are getting sucked into them. This will almost definitely happen so be prepared.

- Every truck and trailer combination reacts to side winds a little differently and you need to be careful to find your limitations. In my case if it’s blowing anything over 20 MPH I’m not going anywhere unless it’s all side roads with lower speed limits.

Lastly and it sounds like you are, be concerned and be careful and if you feel the truck is not up to the task be mentally prepared to get a smaller trailer or bigger truck.

Good luck!

[Rhumblefish]

There's some really great advice in this thread, especially about being mindful of the forces on your setup, and not going as fast as you can.

But a payload discussion is never complete without a loading discussion, so it seems like it's the perfect time to post this video again (perhaps the best loading video I've seen for bumper hitch TT's).

Sway control is all about proper loading, and a working understanding of the forces at play. There's a lot of ways to think about weight concentration, but they all involve some consideration of the physics involved.

Therefore, it's usually simpler to consider the impact of weight position, and what the TV is up to (speed, incline, etc). So, even with a hitch weight that's 15% of trailer weight AND loaded such that the payload of the TV is met, you can still have a recipe for sway.

1. Rear loading (after the axles) to reduce hitch weight (and therefore payload requirement) is REALLY, REALLY BAD.
2. Surprisingly, front loading (ahead of the axles) to increase ball weight (or just a nose heavy trailer) is also NOT GOOD
3. Distribution loading, where there's weight front, middle and back is not an ideal setup.
4. MIDDLE loading is the secret to success, right over the axles as best as you can (and resist the desire to end- or distribute-load as best as you can).

When middle loading, your weight numbers will be the SAME as if they are distribution-loading, but your rig will be much more resistant to sway, as you're changing the polar moment of inertial on your setup.

Example: When towing our 235S (ball on hitch, no antisway or weight distribution), it tows MUCH happier loaded than it does empty. It rides better, doesn't porpoise, resists sway and is much more tolerant of bow waves from passing semis. This is a result of middle loading, adding weight nearest the axels, and keeping weight down (eg, no water aboard) in an attempt to keep tongue weight down AND appropriately proportioned.

Lastly – and this is fairly important – an anti-sway hitch that relies on a friction bar does not directly reduce a trailer's potential for sway, it simply damps the effect of said sway, that is being impacted by weight loading and the input force.

Worth a watch all the way through (and even some rewatching), IMHO - and is one of the very best weight distribution/tow videos produced.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeEEC5eVNCk

Just my .02. Hope this helps.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

Not sure I understand what you are thinking here.

The whole purpose of a Weight Distribution Hitch (WDH) is to get some weight OFF the rear axle and ON to the front axle. There are three reasons to want to do this:

1. To keep the rear axle load within specs
2. To put weight back on the front axle so it steers properly, not as if you were on an icy road *
3. To get the headlights to aim properly so you don't blind oncoming drivers.

If you do this, the vehicle won't squat. It will be roughly level, just a little lower at both ends.**

...<edited>

I believe my setup, being a marginal 1/2 Ton, will not be able to set u the WDH perfectly and it will squat because it does not have HD springs and is right at its capacity. I don't know but that is what I think, that no matter how well I set the WDH, it WILL squat. I was also saying I'd like to fix this squat as much as possible, adjustable airbags/suspension/whatever. thanks.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by njfishing

You really can’t do anything to improve your payload short of taking weight out of the truck. Having said this, the one thing you might experience towing on the heavy side is rear end squat, even with a WDH and increased and annoying bounce going over uneven roads. Roadmaster active suspension can help here since it makes the leaf springs more firm under load but does not effect your unloaded ride. https://activesuspension.com/pages/ras

Sounds to me like you’ve made the decision to give your trailer and truck combination a try. I’m towing with my 2018 Lariat with the max trailer tow package and I’m right at my payload limit, maybe over depending what I have in the truck so besides roadmaster, here are some tips for you.

- You want to take your time adjusting the weight distribution hitch and when you do this your tow vehicle and trailer should be loaded as if you we’re going on a trip. First time I towed my trailer I thought the hitch was adjusted fairly well and when I got on the highway I thought I made a big mistake since was swaying all over the place at 50 MPH. It wasn’t until I made the adjustments to the hitch that I felt safe. This means not making your first tow a long trip. Take it on the highway briefly and be prepared to pull off the highway and make adjustments until you get it dialed in.

- Inflate your tow vehicle tires to the max cold PSI listed on the tire. This helps firm up your ride and sidewalls to help mitigate bounce and sidewall flexing. Some people will switch to e rated tires for this reason since they tend to be stiffer and have higher psi ratings then what will likely be p rated tires you get with your truck.

- Go slow. I’m usually running right around 60 MPH and the few times I wasn’t paying attention and got to 65 and over the trailer got squirrely.

- Leave yourself plenty of room for stopping and for emergency maneuvers since this is where the weight is likely to cause the most problems.

- Get used to being passed by semi trucks and don’t panic when it feels like your are getting sucked into them. This will almost definitely happen so be prepared.

- Every truck and trailer combination reacts to side winds a little differently and you need to be careful to find your limitations. In my case if it’s blowing anything over 20 MPH I’m not going anywhere unless it’s all side roads with lower speed limits.

Lastly and it sounds like you are, be concerned and be careful and if you feel the truck is not up to the task be mentally prepared to get a smaller trailer or bigger truck.

Good luck!

Yes this is so helpful! Thank you so much! It sounds very limiting with your F150/max tow setup, but doable. I expect the same but this helps me understand what to expect. This is another reason I wanted to use the ProPride hitch right away. Have you ever tried it? It should help a lot with side wind and semis passing you. The downside is its an extra 100# on the hitch weight.

[njfishing]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

Yes this is so helpful! Thank you so much! It sounds very limiting with your F150/max tow setup, but doable. I expect the same but this helps me understand what to expect. This is another reason I wanted to use the ProPride hitch right away. Have you ever tried it? It should help a lot with side wind and semis passing you. The downside is its an extra 100# on the hitch weight.

My pleasure. I’ve used an Equalizer and a Kurt Trutrack hitch but I’ve heard great things about the ProPride. People swear by them practically eliminating sway.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by Rhumblefish

There's some really great advice in this thread, especially about being mindful of the forces on your setup, and not going as fast as you can.

But a payload discussion is never complete without a loading discussion, so it seems like it's the perfect time to post this video again (perhaps the best loading video I've seen for bumper hitch TT's).

Sway control is all about proper loading, and a working understanding of the forces at play. There's a lot of ways to think about weight concentration, but they all involve some consideration of the physics involved.

Therefore, it's usually simpler to consider the impact of weight position, and what the TV is up to (speed, incline, etc). So, even with a hitch weight that's 15% of trailer weight AND loaded such that the payload of the TV is met, you can still have a recipe for sway.

1. Rear loading (after the axles) to reduce hitch weight (and therefore payload requirement) is REALLY, REALLY BAD.
2. Surprisingly, front loading (ahead of the axles) to increase ball weight (or just a nose heavy trailer) is also NOT GOOD
3. Distribution loading, where there's weight front, middle and back is not an ideal setup.
4. MIDDLE loading is the secret to success, right over the axles as best as you can (and resist the desire to end- or distribute-load as best as you can).

When middle loading, your weight numbers will be the SAME as if they are distribution-loading, but your rig will be much more resistant to sway, as you're changing the polar moment of inertial on your setup.

Example: When towing our 235S (ball on hitch, no antisway or weight distribution), it tows MUCH happier loaded than it does empty. It rides better, doesn't porpoise, resists sway and is much more tolerant of bow waves from passing semis. This is a result of middle loading, adding weight nearest the axels, and keeping weight down (eg, no water aboard) in an attempt to keep tongue weight down AND appropriately proportioned.

Lastly – and this is fairly important – an anti-sway hitch that relies on a friction bar does not directly reduce a trailer's potential for sway, it simply damps the effect of said sway, that is being impacted by weight loading and the input force.

Worth a watch all the way through (and even some rewatching), IMHO - and is one of the very best weight distribution/tow videos produced.

Just my .02. Hope this helps.

Vital information here! I had watched all of these Australian videos by Robert Pepper last week when I first started to research all of this, and it is what convinced me the ProPride would be a great addition, along with testimonials. Of course having a marginal TV and TT combination can still be the limiting factor and may not be possible to load it ideally. At 11:45 in the video he points out that most TT's have a lot of weight at the front and rear, and this is my case in a way. I have a water tank just barely behind the rear axle and I think loading up more water might put more weight in the center of the trailer and might help, assuming it won't add much tongue weight. I also have to figure out how to get the 200# ProPride hitch not to be too much tongue weight somehow. Thanks!

[flyflotrtim]

"Could you comment on my 2 examples A) and B) in my recent post, as to the proper way to add the weight of the WFH onto the tongue weight calculation?"

B The WDH, cargo inclucing passengers, shoulb be added to the 12-15% of trailer weight to determine total payload.

[Sbosserman]

Well, after reading all of the replies advising against this setup, it appears that good ol’ Snooker has made up his mind and is going through with this ant towing an elephant setup. But I guess we can always say: “Told you so!”

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by Sbosserman

Well, after reading all of the replies advising against this setup, it appears that good ol’ Snooker has made up his mind and is going through with this ant towing an elephant setup. But I guess we can always say: “Told you so!”

Exactly..

[moose074]

Originally Posted by Sbosserman

Well, after reading all of the replies advising against this setup, it appears that good ol’ Snooker has made up his mind and is going through with this ant towing an elephant setup. But I guess we can always say: “Told you so!”

I am not sure I understand your reasoning when I had a Ram 3500 DWD 4x4 Laramie with the Cummins. Based on reading because I never weighed the truck with out the trl my truck should have weighed between 9- 10k my Wildcat 383MB has listed dry weight of 12k my scale ticket had me right around 24k so if I take 10k for truck weight at a minimum my trl was 4k heavier

I currently own a 2019 F 250 Sxt 4x4 cc short bed with the 6.2 I am going to guess based off of readings my truck weighs 7k again I have never weighed my mt truck. My new never been to scale Columbus 329 dvc has a dry weight of 12k. It is 5k heavier before anything is loaded.
Op says dry weight of his trl is 6700 pounds only 1k over his listed curb weight. However I did some looking here is an alleged weight ticket of something close to his truck followed by a 3/4 ton truck. What size weight advantage does he really gain .

[moose074]

Originally Posted by wharfrat48

Safety, safety, safety..... just about any vehicle can tow just about any trailer (remember the commercial of the pick-up truck towing the space shuttle?). What you should be worried about is, can you pull it safely? There was recently an incident at Christmas parade, where a 1/2 ton traveling at &lt;10mph could not stop the parade float they were towing and ended up very badly. You already purchased the TV and the trailer, I hope it works out for you.

With out all the information it’s hard to say what happened might have been many factors or just one performance of the truck may or may not have been the issue.