F-150 PowerBoost towing a 33' Hemisphere 26BHHL ?

[glen1971]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

Do you have any idea what your 26BHHL tongue weight is when completely unloaded? How about loaded?

Mine has the water fill on the rear wall and it looks like the water tank is under the rear bunk as it is all closed off, there is no way it could be over the axles as the slide out w/furniture is there.

My long calculation above did include propane and battery and WDH.

No I don't have exact weight numbers. I go by what the stickers are telling me.

Look again at the water tank. Where is the drain? By the driver's side tires. Where is the overflow? Between the axles? Not to mention I can hear it filling in the middle of the trailer. Yes the fill is on the rear of the trailer, but the furnace is under the rear bunks. If the water tank is there, then so is a grey and a black tank. What relevance does the furniture play into the tank position? None of it is below the frame. Therevis only more weight over the axles.

It sounds like you've got your mind made up, regardless of the info many others have posted here. Good luck, and safe travels.

[llr]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

Are you saying this based on my proposed wet trailer weight of 7500 - 8000#, or assuming that I fill it to its max capacity of 9700?

I can do a tongue weight measurement dry at the dealer. And <surprise!> I bought the described 2023 F150 Powerboost last night, so I will weigh the rear axle dry tomorrow. That does not mean I should stop doing my weight calculations, I need to know how close I am or if it just won't work safely.

I too have sway concerns.

Looking at a more reasonable total weight. Most people I seem to get caught up on the GCWR, which in general is good as the payload on most campers is very low. When I ran across ones like this I just add 1,000-1,500 to the empty weight for calculations. I still believe you will be over when done but not that far and maybe within axle ratings. With the PP3 you may be ok but I would not do it as it is a big investment if it doesn't work. Good luck.

[GolfingDave]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

Thank you, this specific and relevant info really helps a lot. Do you also have the HDPP? (Heavy Duty Payload Package). I assume not if your Payload Capacity is "only" 1855.

So you have an exact example, you say you have had tongue weight of as high as 1200#. When you weighed at the CAT and were very close to your axle limits do you know if you had the high 1200# tongue weight or less? That is the EXACT information I'm looking for. thank you.

I weighed it with no water in it at the CAT scale so that would be 900 lbs.
Full fuel, trailer and truck loaded.

I had weighed the tongue with a hydraulic scale is how I know what the tongue weight would be with and without water. About half full of water is about 1050 and I was using a flow meter to measure. More out of curiosity than anything but glad I did. I know now not to add too much water. Believe my water tank is 54 gallons.

The most water I tow with is twenty four gallons, I can get by using 3 gallons a day even with a shower. Would not even think about adding more when towing. When I know I will need water at the next stop or two I add what I need.

I even compensate some by moving two heavier totes to my rear bath area to keep some weight off the tongue.

Mfg specs for tongue weight on my camper is 714 lbs. A long "weigh" from my actual 900 lbs.

By the way, I always thought the WDH weight is added to your payload of the truck??? So you would have to subtract its weight from your actual payload. Just like carrying a 100 lb weight at the rear end of the truck bed. Not add it to the trailer weight.

[FrankH35]

Originally Posted by 5er_tom

Why bother to ask if you are firm on not getting a bigger truck? Your RV, your life. Me? I would not tow that combination.

First reply proved to be exactly what happened!

[GolfingDave]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

In my prior research I found a lot of encouraging posts for combination of TV and TT similar to mine. I'm evaluating them all, good or bad, and my career was as a design engineer working with a lot of margin, so all of this goes against my nature. But if it seems doable with limitations (traveling light) I went ahead and proceeded with my F150 purchase. I know it is better and safer to go with a F250 or similar, margin is good, but I haven't given up yet until I hook it all up and try to measure and move weight around.

Here is an example of a post that sounded encouraging as he lists actual loaded tongue weights, what do you think? https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ml#post2615641

I see nothing encouraging but might be missing something. Some posts about getting a bigger truck? Sway?

The last post even says he would not go longer. The original poster never did say if it worked out ok.

Your trailer is by specs 2' 9" longer and 250 lbs higher tongue weight.

25RBHL Mentioned in linked topic last post

Hitch Weight: 640 lb.
UVW 6,038 lb.
CCC 1,602 lb.
Exterior Length: 31' 0"
Exterior Height: 10' 10"
Exterior Width: 96"

Your Trailer 26BBHL
Hitch Weight: 890 lb.
UVW 6,688 lb.
CCC 3,002 lb.
Exterior Length: 33' 9"
Exterior Height: 10' 10"
Exterior Width: 96"

[aircommuter]

Originally Posted by Snooker_ML

Another common question: can an F150 safely tow a 33'11" trailer? Actually an F150 PowerBoost in my case, which has slightly lower Payload specs.
But never fear, I have include ALL the details for my specific situation:

Trailer: Last week I bought a new 2022 Salem Hemisphere 26BHHL (last '22 on the lot). Trailer dry weight 6700. Overall length 33'9". $40k new. It does have the wide spread axle, not that I'm saying that makes much difference.
The 49 gallon freshwater tank is in the very back which I assume you could use to lighten the tongue weight as you fill it.
Tongue weight: I estimate the tongue weight could be kept to 900# (12% of 7500# with full water). My issue is wondering if the F150 can handle it.

Truck: I am seriously looking at a 2023 Ford F-150 PowerBoost (Hybrid), 3.5L, 4x4, (short) 5.5' bed, the Lariat std equip 501A with Max Trailer Tow 53C. (no HD PP available anymore above the minimal XL trim, so no way to boost payload capacity from Ford).

Towing capacity is not an issue. As always the issue is how the tongue weight encroaches on the available payload, and the rear axle GAWR capacity spec itself. I've already decided I will install a $3k sway ELIMINATION hitch the 3P from ProPrideHitch.com, and I think this will eliminate the general fear of trailer induced sway.

Payload: The F150 spec for mine with best Max Tow option is 2100# max for Payload. However this is max so it is for a plain featureless best case for a stripped down XL, as you add options the actual sticker payload goes down. Mine has Payload of 1489# (and it has a sunroof, rear tailgate step, 7kw inverter, max tow, all of which drops the Payload down). It is on the lot, and they are rare, if I was ordering it I would drop the sunroof and tailgate which might give me another 150# or so, perhaps.

So: Available Payload is 1489#, not much. It is just the 2 of us (retired and not skinny) in the cab, and if I only assume another 50# of cab stuff I figure 500# of load, added to the tongue weight of 900# and you get 1400# so only 89 below capacity. Of course this is speculation and easy to let the tongue weight over that amount.

I figure I have the trailer induced sway (side wind, etc) issue controlled. Remaining is the overall downhill issue with a 9000# trailer pushing a 5000# truck down a hill. But I've heard the F150 does a pretty good job with sensing trailer loads and trailer braking, plus there is the manual trailer brake control on the dash.
What I should do is wait and get a better PowerBoost with fewer options just to give me some margin in the payload.

Axle: I hear it is common to overload your axle as nobody measures it up front. Well there is no max spec on an empty F150 rear axle as to its actual curb weight, only the GAWR sticker capacity, which is derated to 4150# on mine. I can't weigh the actual so I don't know how close it is (unless I talk the sales guy to go to a CAT scale before I buy it).

Ok that's the long of it. Any informed comments? I really do NOT want a bigger truck BTW.

A 3/4 ton is not a bigger truck just stronger.

[Chuck_S]

I realize this is a 5th wheel trailer and probably not a Ford pickup but if there was a frontal area limitation (v consideration) this would not be possible. And I see larger trailers behind pickups every weekend on the road.



-- Chuck

[tomkatb]

A or B

The tongue weight of a trailer varies from 8-25% of the total weight of the trailer. You pick the number you like best. These are standing at the bar talking numbers.

Accuracy using the calculation assumes you distribute the weight throughout the rv.

The however is the increase to the tongue weight actually depends on the distance each individual item is from the ball.

Adding #500 to the hitch area, propane, batteries, wdh, stuff in the back of the bed, etc does not follow the above formula.

So, loaded up and ready to go the tongue weight is x. Add a heavy fancy hitch at #200 adds #200 to the hitch weight. Not 15% to the hitch of #200. Or #30. Statics 101.

Load the truck up and take the DW out for dinner and stop at a cat scale. Subtract the truck weight from the sticker rating and see what the real payload you have. Some truck stops have good restaurants.

There is a sticker somewhere on most trucks with the max load by axles. See what you have in the rear. Look at the Cat ticket.

Show up that day with the rv and they often let you re weigh for free.

The truck needs to remain level. Ford engineers assumed you will not tow heavy weights every day. The softer the springs the better the ride. HD trucks have overload springs. Half tons do not, in general. Thus the rear springs are likely compressing too much. The headlights blind folks. Who cares! Most of us do not tow at night.

But, the truck does care. Compressing the rear too much causes damage to the driveline being at the wrong angle. For a trip to Walmart for a ton of mulch, no big deal. But, the transfer case, differential and u-joints do not like it. Also stopping tends to lighten the front tire contact. No big deal. We do not like driving in rain. Timbren overloads we’re $200 and installed in an hour.

Ask your dealer. They recommend more frequent diff fluid changes for trucks that tow much.

[Flybob]

Reading through this thread it sounds as if you have made up your mind on the F150 and are trying to justify the numbers. My thoughts are, It is much less expensive to buy the right TV the first time than it is to trade up. Camping is not fun if you dread the trip to and from the campground.

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Flybob

Reading through this thread it sounds as if you have made up your mind on the F150 and are trying to justify the numbers. My thoughts are, It is much less expensive to buy the right TV the first time than it is to trade up. Camping is not fun if you dread the trip to and from the campground.

x2

[wharfrat48]

Safety, safety, safety..... just about any vehicle can tow just about any trailer (remember the commercial of the pick-up truck towing the space shuttle?). What you should be worried about is, can you pull it safely? There was recently an incident at Christmas parade, where a 1/2 ton traveling at <10mph could not stop the parade float they were towing and ended up very badly. You already purchased the TV and the trailer, I hope it works out for you.

[Cabinfever97]

With the ProPride you won't need to be concerned with where the weight is in the TT. That being said keeping a balance is always good. We have a Hemisphere 272RL. We have around 1350lbs of cargo. That includes a full water tank. The hitch will make the TT tow great, but with the length and weight you will feel it in the seat when going down the road. We have a 07 Silverado 2500 and a 15 F250. The F250 feels much better towing than the Silverado. The F250 makes the Silverado look and feel like a 1/2 ton.

[REL]

Buy it, tow it. You already made up your mind. Happy travels.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by glen1971

No I don't have exact weight numbers. I go by what the stickers are telling me.

Look again at the water tank. Where is the drain? By the driver's side tires. Where is the overflow? Between the axles? Not to mention I can hear it filling in the middle of the trailer. Yes the fill is on the rear of the trailer, but the furnace is under the rear bunks. If the water tank is there, then so is a grey and a black tank. What relevance does the furniture play into the tank position? None of it is below the frame. Therevis only more weight over the axles.

It sounds like you've got your mind made up, regardless of the info many others have posted here. Good luck, and safe travels.

I apologize, I don't have the trailer yet, I see you are correct. There is a storage area at the very rear and the furnace in front of that so it is somewhere around the furnace just behind the axles but not much.
I had the dealer send me a picture of the load stickers and I do not see a spec for dry tongue weight, probably because it is not a capacity number I guess. So the website, which nobody should trust is all I have until I measure it myself. thanks.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by GolfingDave

I weighed it with no water in it at the CAT scale so that would be 900 lbs.
Full fuel, trailer and truck loaded.

I had weighed the tongue with a hydraulic scale is how I know what the tongue weight would be with and without water. About half full of water is about 1050 and I was using a flow meter to measure. More out of curiosity than anything but glad I did. I know now not to add too much water. Believe my water tank is 54 gallons.

The most water I tow with is twenty four gallons, I can get by using 3 gallons a day even with a shower. Would not even think about adding more when towing. When I know I will need water at the next stop or two I add what I need.

I even compensate some by moving two heavier totes to my rear bath area to keep some weight off the tongue.

Mfg specs for tongue weight on my camper is 714 lbs. A long "weigh" from my actual 900 lbs.

By the way, I always thought the WDH weight is added to your payload of the truck??? So you would have to subtract its weight from your actual payload. Just like carrying a 100 lb weight at the rear end of the truck bed. Not add it to the trailer weight.

My trailer looks like it has the water tank just behind the rear axle, I don't expect it will add as much to the tongue weight as yours seemed to. I'm guessing yours is somewhere in front of the axles, at least partially?

I am going to buy a tongue weight scale when I get it. I will probably even do the multiple measurements at a CAT to dial it in, because it is so close.

Saying the WDH is added to the payload of the truck, to me is just a different way of adding up the same numbers. If I add the whole weight of the 100 or 200# WDH onto the trailer tongue weight, then when the trailer is connected it adds directly to the truck load and goes against its payload capacity (more or less). The real numbers much be checked on a CAT scale as the WDH really does distribute to both truck axles even, and the trailer axles (is what I've been told); point is the paper calculations only go so far. Thanks for the info I really appreciate it.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by tomkatb

A or B

The tongue weight of a trailer varies from 8-25% of the total weight of the trailer. You pick the number you like best. These are standing at the bar talking numbers.

Accuracy using the calculation assumes you distribute the weight throughout the rv.

The however is the increase to the tongue weight actually depends on the distance each individual item is from the ball.

Adding #500 to the hitch area, propane, batteries, wdh, stuff in the back of the bed, etc does not follow the above formula.

So, loaded up and ready to go the tongue weight is x. Add a heavy fancy hitch at #200 adds #200 to the hitch weight. Not 15% to the hitch of #200. Or #30. Statics 101.

Load the truck up and take the DW out for dinner and stop at a cat scale. Subtract the truck weight from the sticker rating and see what the real payload you have. Some truck stops have good restaurants.

There is a sticker somewhere on most trucks with the max load by axles. See what you have in the rear. Look at the Cat ticket.

Show up that day with the rv and they often let you re weigh for free.

The truck needs to remain level. Ford engineers assumed you will not tow heavy weights every day. The softer the springs the better the ride. HD trucks have overload springs. Half tons do not, in general. Thus the rear springs are likely compressing too much. The headlights blind folks. Who cares! Most of us do not tow at night.

But, the truck does care. Compressing the rear too much causes damage to the driveline being at the wrong angle. For a trip to Walmart for a ton of mulch, no big deal. But, the transfer case, differential and u-joints do not like it. Also stopping tends to lighten the front tire contact. No big deal. We do not like driving in rain. Timbren overloads we’re $200 and installed in an hour.

Ask your dealer. They recommend more frequent diff fluid changes for trucks that tow much.

Yes I completely F'd up my original calculation. I did get an A in statics and dynamics 50 years ago in college, but this is how bouncing it off of others really helps! I have since added the weight of the items near the hitch to go directly to the tongue weight, and I am over. This is all on paper so far. I went to a CAT scale as I do have my truck now and wanted to see my rear axle weight empty and with 1 person in it. As I expected less than half of the person's weight showed up on the rear axle.

The CAT ticket showed the front axle, rear axle and the 2 measurements changed the way I would have expected. BUT both measurements also showed 60# on the trailer axle when nothing was there. Have you ever seen this before? If they just didn't zero it out well ok BUT it gets added in to my total gross vehicle weight which I would exceed if the 60# is real. So I subtracted it out. I'm assuming a big ass semi trailer wouldn't care if it was off by 60# so maybe this is just the accuracy of the whole thing, but I'd like to know.

I am going to post my revised estimates but basically my rear axle is under loaded by 300#, my gross vehicle is almost 0, my payload is over loaded by at least 100#.

I liked your reasoning on the squat issue, but I will not want it to squat so I will probably use something adjustable like airbags, assuming I can get the same smooth ride when I don't have a trailer on (99% of the time).

Great explanations thanks.

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by Cabinfever97

With the ProPride you won't need to be concerned with where the weight is in the TT. That being said keeping a balance is always good. We have a Hemisphere 272RL. We have around 1350lbs of cargo. That includes a full water tank. The hitch will make the TT tow great, but with the length and weight you will feel it in the seat when going down the road. We have a 07 Silverado 2500 and a 15 F250. The F250 feels much better towing than the Silverado. The F250 makes the Silverado look and feel like a 1/2 ton.

The dealer is forcing me to buy his WFH installed for $600. Liability reasons. Ok fine. It is 100# lighter than the ProPride I figure, so that will help my tongue weight and payload which are both in trouble. So I'll try it out first while I'm measuring actual weights and adjusting. Good to know about your numbers and truck differences, I haven't heard anyone say the ProPride make anything worse, usually rave about it (ok the tongue weight is worse!).

[Snooker_ML]

Originally Posted by GolfingDave

I see nothing encouraging but might be missing something. Some posts about getting a bigger truck? Sway?

The last post even says he would not go longer. The original poster never did say if it worked out ok.

Your trailer is by specs 2' 9" longer and 250 lbs higher tongue weight.

25RBHL Mentioned in linked topic last post

Hitch Weight: 640 lb.
UVW 6,038 lb.
CCC 1,602 lb.
Exterior Length: 31' 0"
Exterior Height: 10' 10"
Exterior Width: 96"

Your Trailer 26BBHL
Hitch Weight: 890 lb.
UVW 6,688 lb.
CCC 3,002 lb.
Exterior Length: 33' 9"
Exterior Height: 10' 10"
Exterior Width: 96"

Thanks for that detail! You are correct, I hadn't looked up the Hitch Weight on both models (or even mine for that matter, duh!) I just saw a model 25 vs my model 26 and his low measured tongue weight of 875 and sounded encouraging. Nope.

[Snooker_ML]

This entire thread was flawed from the beginning because I was in such a hurry to decide if I should buy this hard to find F-150 PowerBoost on a local lot, that just came in, that I was so focused on the truck specs and features, and I didn't look up the trailer specs beforehand and was focused on the gross weight * 10-15%. I had no idea the Forest River Site listed the Hitch Weight at all, but thanks to you all I see it is listed as 780# which compelled most of your advice to me. My bad and apologies to anyone I frustrated!

What I was really looking for was both 1) How to make the proper calculations to see if I would overload any of the F-150’s capacities, and 2) Hear experienced real world numbers AND advice.

Obviously I had my mind made up, UNLESS I had made such a blunder that the capacities were so far out of spec that it would never be safe even on paper. More like a proposal but willing to somehow cut my losses if I had to. I did hear your advice and it is clear it would be better and safer with a bigger truck, I get that. I have to make a judgment call. As long as nobody gets hurt I think this combo is worth a try.

Today I weighed my new F150 (specs in first post) on a CAT scale, mainly to see the empty rear axle weight, and slightly to see how much of a driver’s weight would show up on the rear axle. The totally empty truck Rear Axle weighed 2500#. A 230# driver added 100# to the rear.
The GAWR of the rear axle is 4150#.

Like you all have been telling me, if I start with a 780# tongue weight dry (which I didn’t know), adding a hitch and propane/battery right off the top adds directly to the tongue weight and that will be 100% of my issue. The good news is the trailer has two 20# bottles from the factory so I’m hoping they were included (empty) in the Hitch Weight of 780# (but I dunno).

Next I will summarize my latest estimations...

[Snooker_ML]

My latest calculations are as follows. Just trying to see if I am over any capacity. This is not the ProPride but a regular 100# WDH. The propane bottles are already present so this is fill weight only. I am putting on 1 lithium battery 100AH.

F-150
Sticker vs. Estimated Weight:
Limit:
12400 7700 Trailer weight loaded
1400 1115 Tongue weight loaded
1489 1555** Payload
4150 3835 Rear axle
7350 7355 Gross F150 weight

**The Payload Capacity, as expected, is overloaded by 66 pounds (and GVWR by 5#). The PowerBoost has 340# less payload than the same spec'd EcoBoost, I assume due to the motor, battery, inverter, maybe the 3.73 axle is a lower spec than the 3.55, dunno.

You don't need to comment on the fact that this is just on paper and I need to take real measurements, I will.

But is there anything I can do to help the payload out, things that are worth it in a practical way? An adjustable air bag setup (or similar) seems like a good idea but I don't see how they could help the payload, just the rear sag.
And how much would the soft ride without a trailer suffer.

This is my final question and thanks for all the help!