Questions on fresh & waste tanks

techntrek · 10-01-2014, 07:56 PM

Hello all, new owner of a 2008 Salem 26TBUD. Been around campers since 1986, and now with my own family over the last 10 years we've owned a popup, R-Pod TT and now the Salem. I run the R-Pod owner's forum so I'm used to explaining the details of the various systems.

However, there are 2 things that are new to me.

First, I've winter camped several times in my R-Pod, keeping it winterized. This Salem has an enclosed fresh water tank so its a start towards full-service winter camping. Except... the gray and black tanks aren't enclosed. So what is the point of the enclosed fresh tank?

Second, the fresh water tank itself has 2 mysteries. With all the campers I've ever dealt with before, you fill it until the water comes back out of the fill spout. This one appears to have an overfill hose underneath (next to the drain hose which has a valve), so when I came back after walking away water was gushing out of that hose. After shutting down the hose water continued to pour out of that hose for several minutes. I would guess half of the capacity ran back out. As a result, even though the water tank is the same size as my R-Pod's, we got half as many showers out of it. Why this hose, and why does it allow so much water to freely escape? Another mystery, I opened up the interior compartment where that fill spout is located and I see the usual spot where the air vent would be located, in the fill spout assembly. No vent was there and no sign there ever was. Ideas?

Thanks!

Kdz300 · 10-01-2014, 08:38 PM

Same issues with mine, I have filled the tank and arrived at a dry camping spot with half a tank. Water leaks out of that hose a long time after it is "full". I thought it was the drain hose that was open, but it was not. I have honestly thought about putting a valve on the vent hose also that I can shut off, but we seldom dry camp so it has not been a big issue. I think they enclosed the fresh to say it has a heated tank... I wonder the same thing and have thought about insulating the waste tanks but we are usually done camping around the first of November, so it has really never been a big issue with me.

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techntrek · 10-02-2014, 09:12 AM

I've considered adding a valve to that line, too. There's no point to having a 35 gallon tank if 17 of that is going to end up back on the ground.

Witch Doctor · 10-02-2014, 09:38 AM

Since you can get to the fill line, can't you just add a vent there and a valve at the bottom end? Sounds like another poor design. Do you have 12V heating pads on the black and gray tanks and not on the fresh?

techntrek · 10-02-2014, 09:55 AM

I can get to the top half of the fill line, it is in the dead space underneath the fridge where the water pump is located. I would have to make a big hole in the floor next to the water pump to get down to the tank, and in that confined space it wouldn't be easy.

Your post got me thinking and maybe the right solution isn't a valve on that lower vent line. Instead I (and KDZ300) could add an extension to it so it can be routed up the outside of the tank enclosure until it touches the bottom of the floor, then routing it down again several inches. It would look like an upside-down J. This would still allow it to overflow, but retain the full volume of the tank, and prevent rain water from entering the tank via the vent.

No heating pads on the waste tanks. Adding them, and an enclosure, probably would be the only solution if I wanted to do full-service winter camping.

Taranwanderer · 10-02-2014, 12:03 PM

I put a 90 degree stopcock valve on my overflow tube. As soon as it starts coming out, I close the stopcock, and I'm GTG. Just remember to open it back up once you start using the water so air can get into the tank--otherwise, you'll collapse your tank.

Kdz300 · 10-02-2014, 06:47 PM

That is a good idea, the extension up and over sounds like about a $10 solution at the depot.

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Kdz300 · 10-02-2014, 06:49 PM

I have been thinking about a water heater blanket over the rear tanks to give them some heat retention, but have not done any winter camping to this point that made me nervous.

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techntrek · 10-09-2014, 07:12 PM

I'm rethinking my decision. I took a good look at the vent hose the other day and noticed the inside of it is caked with road grime. If I stick an extension on it then water will sit in the line and eventually get sucked back in when the pump runs.

So, now I think I'm back to having to dig through the floor to the top of the tank, disconnect the current vent and install a proper vent line. Making sure I don't make a hole in the tank, fill hose, or cut any wiring. This will be fun.

Witch Doctor · 10-10-2014, 01:24 AM

Can you flush it clean with water and a bleach mixture? then cut it where you can get to in the dead space or do you think that the whole line is contaminated? Did you read this post? is it the same problem as yours? (posted by Knight in things you did today) Got the framework for the fresh water tank out, got the tank fully drained finally, then the big hammers came out and I straightened the frame, pounded the creases out of the angle iron, fitted the new angle iron I'm going to weld in to reenforce it. I was going to redesign the frame, but after looking at the area I have a lot of room where I can put a larger tank in there, maybe 10-15 gallons bigger even, so I'm going to leave the design alone for now.

Also, I figured out why these things "Siphon" like they tend to do. First, the vent is in the side of the tank, not the top. So once you fill it up whatever water got in above the vent line is running back out. Second, and the real reason this happens, the top of the tank is actually concaved under it's own weight. You fill it up until water runs out of the vent, the top of the tank pushes up allowing water to fill that space, you remove the fill hose and the top of the tank will relax pushing out the water that lifted the top of the tank up. The tank is flimsy and moves at will so that happens easily.

By tomorrow afternoon I'll be filling the tank to see what happens, I might toss a thread up with what I do to it.
__________________
Now-2014 Sierra

techntrek · 10-10-2014, 09:13 AM

Looks like the contamination runs up pretty far, well into the box. I would worry about not getting all of it.

Wow, that post puts a whole new twist on the problem. I'll have to find the original post. The vent is attached on the side? That makes no sense, and does explain why half of the tank's contents run out. Again, that leaves us with a 17 gallon tank and not 35. The vent on my R-pod is attached on the top, so my my Coleman popup. So that means I won't be able to completely solve my problem by digging in from above - although I would need to anyway to run the vent to its proper spot next to the fill spout. I'll need to find out which side and approximately where and then cut in from the outside, which I was hoping to avoid.

techntrek · 10-10-2014, 09:35 AM

I just tried to find "Knight", so I could then look up their posts, but I only see partial matches on that name. Could you provide a link to that post? Thanks.

Edit: nevermind, I was finally able to find the thread via a search.

techntrek · 10-10-2014, 02:06 PM

Found this post from SKnight, sounds like his solution was nearly identical to mine.
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post698903

Maybe if I get a small bottle brush I can get far enough into the existing hose to clean it out ok, then extend the line as I planned before.

Witch Doctor · 10-10-2014, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techntrek

Found this post from SKnight, sounds like his solution was nearly identical to mine.
http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...tml#post698903

Maybe if I get a small bottle brush I can get far enough into the existing hose to clean it out ok, then extend the line as I planned before.

I don't think road grime can get that high in the tube. You can cut some off and add on and go back to your original plan. Cut a few inches at a time till you clear it then just add on from there. Road grim can't get up that high. I hope this helps you out. Just a piss pour design. Good luck. It seems we are all just changing the wheel all the time. I just wounder what they are thinking about with some of this common sense stuff?....

techntrek · 10-10-2014, 03:23 PM

Only about 2 inches sticks out of the box - the fresh water tank is enclosed. The black stuff I see in there extends above that point, but a small brush will get to it. Can't cut much off since I need room to add a hose clamp.

techntrek · 10-17-2014, 06:32 PM

I got ready to add the extension to the tube this afternoon, when I noticed there was a gap between the tank and the side of the enclosure (I could barely see the top edge of the tank). So, I cut through the plastic on the bottom of the enclosure around the drain line and vent line. This is what I saw, after removing the vent line.

techntrek · 10-17-2014, 06:46 PM

So what you are seeing, looking up from below... The white ribbed tube is the fill line, running through the floor. The white PEX is the intake from the tank also running through the floor. Just to the right of the yellow blob (spray foam filling the hole in the floor) is the 90 degree connection at the top of the tank where the vent line was connected. I filled the tank to the top and you can just barely see a large drop of water hanging on the end of it.

Now that I've easily broken into that space and see I can get to the vent line connection on the side - not the top - of the tank, I'm going to scrap my original idea and run a new vent line through the floor (through that yellow foam blob), up to the vent connection next to the fill spout. Where it should have been to begin with!

I wanted to share the pic and info, so everyone knows how easy it is to get in there and run the line the way it should be.

techntrek · 10-18-2014, 07:55 PM

Success! I routed a new, longer length of PEX up through the floor and attached it to the vent opening. Filled up the tank... all the way to the top of the fill spout. Didn't loose 1/3 of the contents on the ground.

Solved.

Witch Doctor · 10-18-2014, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by techntrek

Success! I routed a new, longer length of PEX up through the floor and attached it to the vent opening. Filled up the tank... all the way to the top of the fill spout. Didn't loose 1/3 of the contents on the ground.

Solved.

I'm glad to hear you got the repair done. It's crazy how people have to rebuild stuff. Yours was just a piss pour design by FR. You probably just helped alot of members......

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