365SAQ Axles..... Again

cfisher523 · 03-11-2015, 04:08 PM

So I tried to respond to the existing thread, but apparently once a thread goes 188 days without activity it gets closed. Anyway for anyone who is wondering Forest River's state of denial of their 6k axle problems on 365SAQs continues......

To shorten what is likely going to be an already long post I won't include any email traffic, at least not yet. The short story is that while I was starting to get my trailer ready for the camping season I noticed my driver's side rear wheel on my trailer was 'pitched' so that the bottom was several inches out (away) from where it should be and the top was several inches closer to the frame than it should be. Yes, the trailer was straight and level; and this was the only wheel out of alignment, i.e. the axles weren't twisted in any way.

My trailer is a 2013 365SAQ, purchased in June 2012. The warranty expired 6/9/2013. Since it was out of warranty I didn't even bother calling my dealer, instead I pulled out the paperwork and found that it had Al-Ko axles, which I thought might still be covered under an OEM warranty; so I called Al-Ko.

The folks at Al-Ko were very nice and asked for details about my trailer. I provided the make, model, and weight information from the labels on my RV. The nice folks at Al-Ko then told me they would be unable to help me as the axles were potentially being overloaded. They asked me to verify the tags on the axles to confirm they were 6,000# units. Once verified Al-Ko suggested that I review several regulations and then contact the trailer mfg as they selected and installed the axles in a potentially overloaded configuration and the issue was theirs to resolve.

Before contacting Forest River I reviewed the literature suggested by Al-Ko and starting searching the internet, where I found the numerous people here and on RV.net that were in a similar situation as me. I say similar because many had not yet experienced an issue, but they recognized the problem and either had it addressed or were addressing it through their dealers or Forest River directly.

Now, I have been in contact with Forest River and was able to speak with Wayne in the customer service department. Wayne was very nice, reviewed my issues, and presented them to a supervisor. The supervisor then provided a response that because of the age of the trailer (warranty expired 6/9/13) they would be denying a change at their expense; though they would possibly consider supplying parts at a 'reasonable cost' to my dealer where I could pay for the 'change'.

While Wayne was nice enough to review my issues, management at Forest River has decided that despite the facts that:
(1) I have a problem (possibly a bend) with my axles
(2) Al-Ko explained there was a potential for overloading as configured
(3) That I only have 771# ccc after water and propane on a 40'+ 12 person rig

My unit being 32 months old and out of warranty is just too old to have its problem addressed.

I did send a response back kindly asking them to reconsider. I would even be willing at this point to drive out to them if that's what it would take, but at least for now, it would seem that 32 months might as well be vintage because its too old to even have safety concerns addressed.

Very disappointed in Forest River..... I love the trailer, floor plan, etc - but when I had problems (not even safety related) with my Jayco they were all over it, even out of warranty. I just can't wrap my head around putting a clock on safety related fixes, err changes..... I'm sure you're all tired of hearing about axle issues, but I wanted to share. I'll update everyone once I reach final adjudication; I'm not giving up yet and I'm hoping Forest River is still open to dialogue.

supercab79 · 03-12-2015, 04:53 PM

Dear cfisher golf medic and myself I can assure you that not only is this an issue but also an egregious breach of consumer safety and trust. I'm sure others on this forum who are blindly loyal will debate some of these concerns but look around the Feds are aware of this and a good "representative" if you catch my drift will pay dividends in safety and peace of mind in the long run. FR in my opinion is a company that puts profit before people (safety) and produces a mediocre product at best. There floor plan in the 365 SAQ is awesome but after attending the first Rv show here in pa last week there are now 3 other manufactures who have closely copied this floor plan with higher quality and the 8 lug 7000lb axles as standard equipment. My vote to you is repair and trade. I'm in the process of doing the same and I have the 7000lb axles. This was my first and last FR product Wayne is a puppet and there customer support it a joke. Good luck my friend I hope your outcome is a good one just please be safe with that rig remember if its rolling its a risk.

Marc

vinmaker · 03-12-2015, 05:05 PM

I feel for you. I have nothing to add other than to thank you for sharing your experience. We need to all be aware of things like this.
Thanks,

Vin.

cfisher523 · 03-12-2015, 07:54 PM

supercab79, my preference would be to work this out with FR; I find the assistance of professional 'representatives' usually slow down the resolution process.

I am remaining hopeful at this point. Yesterday I sent in another appeal to reason and I was advised that it was sent to management for review; I'm guessing that means the dialogue remains open for now. That being said I am disappointed so far the initial response was rejection and denial primarily based upon the units ripe old age of 32 months. I had expected to at least be presented with an initial offer to repair at their facility - an offer I would certainly consider though I am unsure of how I would safely transport it that far (650+ miles) with a bent axle. Ideally they would standup and stand behind their product, send the parts to a local dealer of their choice and make this right. At this point I want options though.... not fixing it isn't an option as far as I'm concerned and maybe it will take professional assistance to get there - I'm hoping that isn't the case though.

My first trip this year is already booked 4/28 - 5/3; here's to hoping that one way or another I'm ready to go and go safely.....

golfmedik · 03-13-2015, 07:02 PM

Yes, Supercab79 know all to well about this issue. I'm truly sorry that you are having trouble with your unit, Forest River and its associates. They KNOW this is a problem and it's only a matter of time before a 'representative' in product liability gets wind of this. With the units beginning to age some now, I'll bet it won't take long before it's investigated more appropriately. With all the ones that have had them done, they don't have a leg to stand on. As I said in one of my previous posts, these things have the potential to be catastrophic to owners and the public. Keep on them until you get a resounding "NO" then do what you must. When I looked up the cost of the axles when all of this started, I could buy the 7k axles for $28 a piece more than I could buy a 6k. With their buying power, the cost would've been negligible. In my opinion, their marketing this unit, with the advertised weight, was a gimmick to sell these units to those that had 3/4 ton trucks. With the feds already on them about other issues, when this one is discovered, it is going to be costly to them! Good luck.

AquaMan · 03-13-2015, 07:33 PM

Hey Golf, what other issues are the "feds" on them about? I know the axle issue has been an issue with us on the forum, but haven't heard of any other issue that has warranted a federal investigation.

DDC · 03-13-2015, 07:53 PM

Why don't you report this to The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and tell them that the nice folks at Al-Ko then told me they would be unable to help me as the axles were potentially being overloaded. This where this type of safety concern should go, you don't need to fight this alone if there is a problem they can handle it.

golfmedik · 03-13-2015, 09:26 PM

http://m.elkharttruth.com/news/busin...iolations.html. this is the link. Reports on other sources state it covers motorhomes as well as newly found issues with campers.

cfisher523 · 03-13-2015, 10:13 PM

Maybe I'll include that link in my next correspondence with FR.

I never considered filing with the NHTSA. I was really hoping they'd make it right. It seems that quite a few people have had their trailers repaired, err changed, without too much discussion. My vintage age of 32months seems to be the long pole in the tent; cause you know 40' wrecking balls aren't their problem once they get old.

cfisher523 · 03-16-2015, 07:38 PM

So I've been continuing my back and forth with FR. We've gone from a resounding 'No' you're on your own, to a we'll reconsider, to today's offer.

The offer today was that I drive 650+ miles with a bent axle, drop my trailer off at the factory for a week and pay a 'nominal' fee of $500.00 to perform the swap. NOTE: This has never been referred to as a repair by FR.

Now there is no way I'm driving 650+ miles with a bent axle. Not safe for me or anyone else on the highway. I proposed a counter solution, which I'm sure many of you will think is still too much 'give', but I'd really like this fixed to meet my first booked trip this year 4/28-5/3.

My counter proposal was that I would pay shipping or motor frieght for the parts to be delivered to a FR dealer of their choice within 75 miles of my home. I included a list of those dealers. I would then also pay the labor for the dealer to install the parts. So basically all they would have to do is supply parts; I'm covering shipping and labor to repair my trailer that was improperly equipped to begin with. My solution costs them no more than their solution, ensures 'qualified' personnel complete the repair, and doesn't tie up anyone at the factory - oh an it doesn't put me or the rest of the traveling public at as much risk.

I figured I'd hear back right away, but with the business day closed I'm guessing it will be at least tomorrow before I hear from them. I can't see why they would reject the counter, but I don't understand why they built this trailer with the underrated equipment they did - so who knows.

I'll keep the updates rolling.... If I don't get anywhere soon an NHTSA complaint may be in my future, based on the condition that the repair will only be completed after driving 650+ miles on a bent axle if nothing else. As much as I'd like to avoid outside help it may be time to start considering next steps if I'm going to be ready to camp at all this year. I hate making monthly payments on something I can't use....

golfmedik · 03-17-2015, 01:28 PM

Ok now, since they 'may' agree there is a problem, and have offered to replace them if you bring it there, looks to me they would want to further reduce liability and ship the axles to your dealer. Can you imagine the 'fallout' if you had an accident on the way there and injured not only yourself, but other people as well?

TURBS · 03-17-2015, 01:48 PM

Take it to goshen rally and get a 7k set put on it.

KMP44 · 03-17-2015, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBS

Take it to goshen rally and get a 7k set put on it.

That would be great if he didn't have wait until August and then drive 650 miles with a possibly bent axle.

Seems like FR is crazy if they don't accept the OP's counter offer.

Between what AL-KO said and the fact that they put 7K axles on the new units, seems like a pretty good case for getting some help replacing them.

TURBS · 03-17-2015, 03:40 PM

So what are the weight figures on this unit?
Printed and actual?

AquaMan · 03-17-2015, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURBS

So what are the weight figures on this unit?
Printed and actual?

Gross sticker is 14,040, or somewhere in that neighborhood.

golfmedik · 03-17-2015, 05:29 PM

I believe his sticker weight was around 12,900 before the second air and toppers were added at the dealer IIRC. Of course that was before anything was added.

cfisher523 · 03-17-2015, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmedik

I believe his sticker weight was around 12,900 before the second air and toppers were added at the dealer IIRC. Of course that was before anything was added.

OK... we've reached a resolution, which by the way is still not being referred to as a repair - a change, an upgrade, a swap, but never a repair. Before that though I'd like to provide the weight info.... Yellow sticker from the factory was 12,750 before the dealer installed 2nd AC and slide toppers; leaving 1231 payload before dealer options, propane, and fresh water. My estimate is an actual payload of 571. On to the resolution.....

FR agreed to my counter proposal where I cover shipping and labor at a local dealer and they provide all the necessary parts to replace the 6k axles with 7k axles. I offered to let them pick the dealer, but they wanted me to choose one and put them in touch with the FR parts point of contact.

I did forget (how short memory can be) my last experience with the dealer I purchased from, who will remain unnamed. Having worked out the details with FR, I contacted my selling dealer, explained the situation and asked for a labor quote. The initial response was 'Oh, and let me guess, you need it by April 1 too.' They proceeded to tell me that it would be at least $880, probably more depending on how much pre-assembly was complete on the axles. I was also prepped that the repair could take some time and that I needed to coordinate ASAP if I was going to be ready to camp by April 28.

Not being under warranty anymore I made the decision to avoid giving them another dime of my money.... I reached out to Indian Valley Camping Center, a business I have never done business with or even stopped into; ever. The gentleman in the service department listened to my story, in its entirety before commenting at all. When I was done he explained that they've been down this road on 365SAQ units before; though always under warranty. He was happy to quote me ~$450 for the labor and offered to accept the parts COD, which I would then add as actual shipping costs to the labor in order to speed up delivery. I asked about how busy they were in the service department and if he would be able to get it done in time for my scheduled trip and he said as long as he has the parts 10 days prior he will get it in and out somewhere. Again, I've never done any business here before.... but I will be. He was patient, honest, and willing to do what he could to get my repaired and on the road. A little customer service goes a long way and the gentleman in the service department at Indian Valley Camping Center earned them a new customer today.

So, I still think FR should have covered all expenses - but I am happy with the end result. One way or another this needed to be fixed and this is significantly cheaper than having to cover the full expense on my own. It is unfortunate that FR refuses to refer to this as a repair, but their willingness to provide the parts is appreciated and at some level does show recognition for the safety concerns presented to them.

Safe travels all.....

AquaMan · 03-18-2015, 04:52 AM

That sounds great. And by the way, an axle swap can be done in a couple hours. If they are shipping the units from the factory, they will most likely be completely assembled (springs, hubs). If shipped from Dexter (don't think they're using Al-Ko anymore) they not be assembled.

Stormrider151 · 03-18-2015, 06:56 AM

I'm glad that you have a resolution that you can live with. And that you have found a dealer that you can trust. I do believe however that the NTSB should be made aware of the issue. You recognized the problem and addressed it. However how many other trailers are on the road and their owners have no clue that they are rolling down the road with a disaster waiting to happen. If this has happened with your model there are probably other models that are affected too. I'm trading my 2015 FR in on for a new trailer made by a different manufacturer for a number of reason's. Design and engineering being one of them. I hope everything goes well for you and you can enjoy your camper with no more worries.

OldCoot · 03-18-2015, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AquaMan

That sounds great. And by the way, an axle swap can be done in a couple hours. If they are shipping the units from the factory, they will most likely be completely assembled (springs, hubs). If shipped from Dexter (don't think they're using Al-Ko anymore) they not be assembled.

And if it's a factory switch, they even install rubber ducks.

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