Help - pipes freezing

wingsong56 · 12-28-2009, 10:32 PM

We are in Belen, NM (near Albuquerque) and are having problems with the water pipes freezing up in the Wildcat at night. We keep the thermostat for the furnace set at 70 degrees at night, but we are losing the water somewhere between 1 am and 6 am. The salesman told us the pipes would not freeze, because the lines were along the floor ducts, but they are freezing, apparently between the storage tank and the pump. The pump goes off in the middle of the night, straining to pump. When we get up and try the faucets, there is no water anywhere in the trailer, and we turn teh pump off to keep from burning it up. Whereever it is freezing, it does not thaw out until around noon to 2 pm. The pump itself and the lines leaving the pump and going to the sinks seem warm when we check them. The lows are getting down in to the teens outside at night. The storage tank and the lines leading from it to the pump seem to be in sealed compartments that we can't get to. We are living in the Wildcat year round, and do not have a water hookup, but fill the storage tank by hand with a gravity flow hose from a windmill every day or two. So far the only thing we found that prevented it was last night to get up every hour from 1 am to 6 am and run all the faucets and flush the toilet. The pump would strain for a few seconds with no water, and then the ice would apparently break lose, and water would get into the pump, and come out the faucets. We won't get much sleep this way. Anybody have any solutions?

NWJeeper · 12-28-2009, 11:34 PM

Windsong, if the pipes are in an inaccessible area then you are going to have a hard time. Most of the pipes should be run inside the rig but there will be the few that aren't and in most cases you should be able to find them behind blank off panels meant to hide them. Forest River is really good at screwing panels in compartments to hide wiring and pipes. I hope you have shore power. If so, run to the local hardware store and pick up a regular set of the rope lights. They are water proof and put off some heat. Wrap the string of lights around your exposed pipes and plug in to an extension cord. A cheap and easy way of keeping your pipes heated.

Good luck and welcome to the forum...

rockwood06 · 12-29-2009, 05:10 AM

One other thing you can do is open your grey or galley tanks and open the cold water side of your faucet just a little and let the water run down the drain in the sink. Moving water will help keep it from freezing.
By the way......Welcome to FRF......

rockwood06 · 12-29-2009, 05:57 AM

NWJeeper has a great Idea or you can buy this .....Heat Tape.

**Bama Rambler** · 12-29-2009, 09:38 AM

I've read your description several times to better understand what's going on and it does seem like the pump suction line from the tank to the pump is what's freezing. The only way to combat that is to get some heat in there. The heat tape shown above is the best solution but requires you to access the piping. I'd try and remove a panel and apply the tape but barring that I'd place a small light bulb or small electric heater near the location in the basement to provide some heat in that area. If you could provide photo's of the area of the FW tank we might be able to provide better help.

wingsong56 · 12-29-2009, 09:15 PM

This is a 27 foot 2009 Wildcat. I guess what I was hoping was that someone else might have some experience to know what part might be freezing, and where it might be located, or if/where there was a way to get to it with out taking apart the trailer piece by piece. We used heat tape and a space heater on a previous 5th wheel of a different brand that was not enclosed, and we could find the frozen parts. There does not seem to be a diagram of the plumbing in the owners manual materials that we got with the trailer, and we are reluctant to just start trying to undo the siding or bottom. That was why I was searching the internet for info, and found this sight.

wingsong56 · 12-29-2009, 09:16 PM

PS The dealer has not been real helpful

LadyWindrider · 12-29-2009, 11:40 PM

Start by elimination. When the water freezes, do you have water at any faucet or the toilet? If not, then the freeze is between the pump and the first faucet in line. See if you can logically figure out the water flow through the whole trailer, from the pump to the last fixture in line. If one fixture works, and others don't, the freeze is between the two. For a nights sleep. turn the pump off, and also for safety sake. Don't take a chance burning it up. Understand you don't want to leave water running when dry camping. If you think you are close to the freeze, use a 120 volt hair dryer to heat pipe and thaw. This will tell you if you're close. As for sleep. may have to take naps during the day when things are thawed. Good Luck.

**huntr70** · 12-30-2009, 08:05 AM

Pretty sure it is the feed line from the tank to the pump.

That is the only line that is below floor level. The easiest thing to do would be to drop the corrugated belly material to get at the feed line, then add your heat tape.

All the other lines are enclosed in either the storage area in the front, or cabinets and flooring.

wingsong56 · 12-30-2009, 10:05 PM

Thanks Steve & Vicki. That is the kind of direction I was hoping for

retired2 · 12-31-2009, 02:53 PM

We have a 24RL Wildcat. The line from the water storage tank to the pump is located in the belly of the unit, under the floor. Found this out when cleaning up a hydrolic leak and had the belly open. We insulated the line from the tank to the basement with the foam pipe insulation material. Also the drain line so as not to get ice in the general area of the water line. We haven't had any freezing of the line to this point, and have stayed in below freezing weather without any problem. We do try to use city water when possible if it is below freezing, just to keep from potentially having ice in the pump.

NWJeeper · 12-31-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retired2

We do try to use city water when possible if it is below freezing, just to keep from potentially having ice in the pump.

There is always water in the pump regardless of whether you are connected to city water or not. If the temps in that area drop below freezing it will still freeze.

wingsong56 · 01-30-2010, 09:44 PM

The answer: The tank is located in the back driver side corner of the 5th wheel. We removed the screws holding up the corregated plastic cover under the tank -- 3 going across the bottom center of the vehicle, and 3 going down the driver side edge. We had to pull the cover away from the spray foam they had sprayed around the white overflow hose and the blue drain hose from the tank where they penetrated through the corregated cover. There was no insulation around the hoses from where they leave the tank, to where they exit the space, either to go under the floor to supply the trailer, or to where they exited the cover to the exterior. It was a little bit of a tight squeeze to get my hand in there, but we packed that space with fiberglass insulation, and then reattached the corregated cover. We also put an aluminum sleeve around the piece of drain hose extending below the cover, about 5 inches in diameter and as long as the hose, and packed it with insulation and covered the bottom end of the sleeve with duct tape, just in case the freeze would travel up the hose and freeze the comon exit from the tank. That has been a month ago, and we have not had a lick of problem since. Apparently the freeze was in the short piece of blue hose between where it left the tank, and where it disappeared up into the flooring area. Thanks again for all the advice, especially Steve and Vicki's direction on where to start opening things up. Denise

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