Tire Upgrade wildwood x-lite 185rb

[DougHeffernan]

We recently purchased a wildwood x-lite 185rb at a rv show and looking back we should have researched everything a little more.
We decided on the 185rb due to its low weight which tows great behind our 4door Jeep Wrangler.
The problem I thought of and didn't research till after we put ink to paper was the single axle and effects of a blowout should one occur. So I decided to install a over/under axle kit which gave me the necessary clearance for a larger wheel and better tire.
I went from a Chinese produced C rated 14 inch tire (unknown name brand) weighing 39lbs to a United States produced e rated 10 ply 16 inch tire (Michelin xps rib) weighing double at 82 lbs.
I know some will say that it's overkill but I want to have best chance of not having a blowout. I'm wondering if any complications will occur by putting such a heavy duty tire on a 3500lb rated axle. Tongue height matches my lifted jeep receiver so height is good and I don't see camper being too top heavy with these tires?!?
Did I do the right thing or is this a problem waiting to happen?
I would like to hear everyone's opinion.

[Asrabbit]

I would think the weight of the tire does not add any weight to the axle, so I would have to ask myself if the weight of the tire really matters in terms of overloading the axle? My thinking is it would not matter since the axle is not carrying that weight. Somehow my trailer came with a bent axle. The dealer order a new one the first week of March. It somehow just now got here. It is hard for me to believe it takes this long to get an axle shipped out. Regardless, I am scheduled to have a new axle put on next week.

I do not get the weight calculations. My camper has a gross weight limit of 3903 pounds. About 400 goes on the hitch, meaning a 3500 pound axle is fine, (just barley). But, if you use a weight distribution hitch, I am thinking you are putting some of that 400 pounds back on the the trailer. So, suppose you are putting half back on the trailer, or 200 pounds. If that is the case, I would think the axle is overloaded at that point. I guess FR is smarter than I am.

[DougHeffernan]

Well an axle will be my next option . Maybe a 5k. I feel like a pharmaceutical company in that I fix one problem and it creates another one .. But there's a fix for that problem but then it may cause another problem but there's a fix for that... Etc etc. only problem I'm not getting rich haha

[ependydad]

Originally Posted by DougHeffernan

Well an axle will be my next option . Maybe a 5k. I feel like a pharmaceutical company in that I fix one problem and it creates another one .. But there's a fix for that problem but then it may cause another problem but there's a fix for that... Etc etc. only problem I'm not getting rich haha

Different scenario, but I upgraded my tires on my camper in a huge way (from load range E to load range H or J). I have two concerns with what you and I did:

1) It makes it way easier to overload the axle without overloading the tires. I weigh regularly and know where my axle weights stand.

2) Is it going to transfer more shock and roughness to the camper with a harder tire? Like you say above- it's whack-a-mole, I added shocks to the camper to try and combat this.

I just wish the camper manufacturers would design these upgrades in from the factory. But we all know that's a pipedream.

[PenJoe]

Your center of gravity is a bit higher with the two mods. This would be most noticeable in cross winds or a sway event, especially with a single axle TT and a light TV.

[DougHeffernan]

My only concern is the top heaviness of camper but there are a few campers on the market that are sold with the axle flip already so I will take it easy until I see what happens.
I'm glad I went with the Michelin. Steel ply and there's a lot of meat on the sidewalls.
Well here she is with 16 " wheels 10 ply Michelin XPS Rib tires. Weight distribution with sway control installed . Jeeps rear end dropped 1/2 inch .
Camper and jeep about the same height. Going check weight Monday. Should I call her the SS money pit or SS death trap lol

[satdog01]

I upgraded the tires on my Flagstaff from factory Class C ( inflation was at 40 pounds) to a Class D (inflation now at 60 pounds). While the tt pull seems to be the same or maybe
A little better, the tt has become a bit more bouncer, with rougher ride in tv. Talked to tire manufacturer Duro about reducing the tire pressure by 10 pounds and was told a definite no due to increased road heat on the tires and incresed tire wear. In progress to have Air Lift 5000 air bags installed to see if ride is softened some. Doing this as I noticed that the hitch drop increased about 1.5 inches from my original purchase settings. Checking to cut down tounge weight as well, our tt has a front kitchen so adding weight due my cooking pastime with cast iron could be an issue. Will be storing cast iron in tv in future.

[clr]

All the downside comments are correct you are sort of playing wack a mole. But the upside here is that you have probably completed the most important upgrade of all with the heaver duty tires. All RV seem to really skimp on the tires, most only meet the minimum requirements. Also as in my case (every case is different) the tires were rated at less than the axles so the tires were my limiting factor.

[DougHeffernan]

Single axle ? Mine would drop about 1 1/2 inches until I put weight distribution hitch.
Really pulls better than expected. Only thing is tractor trailers really push me around. Going to tighten up sway control and see what that will do.
Went to the cat scales and it was really convenient and fast. I weighed it twice with WD and then again with out bars and off hitch. I'm at 300 lb tongue weight.
Everything is within limits
This is with WD attached and fully loaded.

[DougHeffernan]

Like clr mentioned in an early post about wishing manufacturers would design for upgrades but they don't and they're really missing out on upsales with wheels and tires ..

[PenJoe]

Originally Posted by satdog01

I upgraded the tires on my Flagstaff from factory Class C ( inflation was at 40 pounds) to a Class D (inflation now at 60 pounds). While the tt pull seems to be the same or maybe
A little better, the tt has become a bit more bouncer, with rougher ride in tv. Talked to tire manufacturer Duro about reducing the tire pressure by 10 pounds and was told a definite no due to increased road heat on the tires and incresed tire wear. In progress to have Air Lift 5000 air bags installed to see if ride is softened some. Doing this as I noticed that the hitch drop increased about 1.5 inches from my original purchase settings. Checking to cut down tounge weight as well, our tt has a front kitchen so adding weight due my cooking pastime with cast iron could be an issue. Will be storing cast iron in tv in future.

A while back a tire dealer advised us to put the maximum air in the TV tires (front and rear) and 50 LBS in the ST trailer tires. We just had new skins put on the TV and one new tire on the trailer. I ask this dealer for tire pressure recommendations. This dealer advised that for towing, to air both TV and trailer tires to 80% of the max pressure noted on the tire sidewalls. He stated when the tires heat up, it has 20% reserve to max out. He stated that when done towing, return the TV tire pressure to 30-32 lbs for best tire wear. Our TV tires are 275-55-20s.

We have had Firestone Ride-rite airbags on our last 3 TVs. The bags will help to take some of the stress off of the rear springs, help prevent sway and should level you off. They do help the ride when carrying a load. They do not increase weight capacity. The Firestone bags have a max air pressure of 100 lbs. We generally only need 30-50 lbs pressure to level out. When not towing, we keep the recommended 10 lbs for a decent ride. If you have never had air bags, note that one or two seconds of air will make a big difference in the bag's air pressure. I have a valve on either side of the rear plate and bring up both a little at a time.

[clr]

Good advise here for the most part but I think the tire guy recommendations for TT tires is all wet and should not be followed. TT tires should always have their pressure set for the load that they are carrying. So best idea for TT or 5th wheel is to weight the trailer and see what it weighs then go to the load inflation chart for your tire and use that pressure. If you do not know the weight right now set the TT tire pressure to the max pressure stated on the side wall of the tire. All tire pressure will increase as they get warm that is why they all ways say to check tire pressure on a cool tire early in the morning is best with no real solar load on the tire yet.

[jadatis]

Originally Posted by DougHeffernan

Single axle ? Mine would drop about 1 1/2 inches until I put weight distribution hitch.
Really pulls better than expected. Only thing is tractor trailers really push me around. Going to tighten up sway control and see what that will do.
Went to the cat scales and it was really convenient and fast. I weighed it twice with WD and then again with out bars and off hitch. I'm at 300 lb tongue weight.
Everything is within limits
This is with WD attached and fully loaded.

Because you went to larger tires You can do with lower pressure, but going from C- to E-load would need higher pressure for same load.
Think this boht will compensate, but if you give me maximum load and speed of tire , I can calculate it for you , now you gave the axle loads.
Also need to know the maximum speed you use and wont go over for even a minute. Give also tiredata of car , speed for that stays the same

About the balance .
Making the vehicle higher brings total gravity point also higher , wich makes it sway sideward more easy. heavyer wheels bring it down a little.
For the front /rear sway nothing chanches, because the front/rear sways over the imaginary axle trouch the centres of the wheels.

What I noticed is the little space between the front of TT and the car .
Can be that I am wrong because of how the picture is made.
In Europe we have more space , even enauch to put the bycicles on front dissel, wich is often done for better controll. Probably done to get more weight on towbar, to get the minimum of 10% that is by law in America .
In Europe minimum by law for centre axle trailers is only 1% and maximum allowed 10% ( America max 15%).

[DougHeffernan]

Thanks Jadatis that would be helpful. I really don't think I need to run tire at 80psi?!?
The tongue is short.
My tires are LT225/75R16 E
XPS RIB
2680 LBS at 80 PSI Speed Rating of 100 mph but I usually stay at 60 mph very seldom I get up to 65 mph.
I weighed individual loads on each tire
Load on right tire was 1760
Left tire was 1620
Total trailer weight increased due to me adding a hide-a-spare carrier.

[jadatis]

@ DougHeffernan

Because of the WD hich the weights are not totally clear to me.
Also because of the adding of a Hide a spare cariër , was that done after weighing or before?

Total of your given wheelloads of R1760/L1620 = 3380 lbs.
The weight slip gives 3440 lbs for trailer axle weight with WDH .
This would mean the WDH to transport 60 lbs to trailer tires.
You gave 300 lbs of tongeweight, but is this measured on a device off the car, then the WDH weighshifting is not the case.
Probably of that 300 lbs 60 lbs is shifted to the trailer tires and also about 60 lbs to the front wheels of car. so only 180 lbs is on towbarr.

so for a temporary answer I used my motorhome calculator, part 3 where I can fill in seperate wheelloads,and set the reserves to that I decided for trailers and added 30 lbs to each side so used R1790/L1650 lbs.
Gave highest pressure with acceptable gripp and comfort ( for trailer so screws wont tremble loose) of 58 psi/4.0 bar.
Also highened up the Loadindex by 4 to get the maximum load the tire would have for max speed of 75m/h ( enaugh reserve I think for your 60m/h).
Gave 51 psi/3.5bar as lowest pressure measured with a device that is 100% acurate ( never possible) , with still reserve for incidental extra load and your shifted load ( loaddivision R/L of 48/52%)
This would still not overheat the tires if you drive 75m/h.

Best is to try to keep the pressure at 58 psi measured.
Then if by inacuracy of device or misyudging of weights, or pressure loss in time, the real pressure is lower , you still are save for the tires.
This is all cold pressure = when inside tire temp = outside tire temp= about 65 to 68 degr F. So standing still for longer time and no sunshine on tire.

This if weights given are correct and up to date.
If I mis-interprated the weights you gave, correct me and I will recalculate.

Once you know the pressure for on road, and I think you will go offroad sometimes,yudging by the car and high roadclearence, for on track about 80% of pressure needed for 65km/40m/h can do, and for in Sand/Mudd even 50% of pressure needed for 20km/12.5m/h can do, wich then are the maximum speeds to use . If you take those percentages of the 51 psi for 75m/h it would give , 50%/25 psi, 80%/40 psi.
Can help you to get away at those undergrounds, but you must highen up the pressure when goin on solid underground again.

[DougHeffernan]

Thank you for all the information

Originally Posted by jadatis

Because of the WD hich the weights are not totally clear to me.
Also because of the adding of a Hide a spare cariër , was that done after weighing or before?

Weight was taken after install.

Originally Posted by jadatis

You gave 300 lbs of tongeweight, but is this measured on a device off the car,

300 lbs was off car

Originally Posted by jadatis

This would still not overheat the tires if you drive 75m/h.

I took camper out on a 30 mile round trip and inflated tires to 70psi there and deflated tires to 65psi for trip back and I couldn't see any difference in trailer handling so probably will leave at 65psi. I noticed a very slight blue green discoloration on sidewalls of tires as if they got overheated. So I lifted each tire and didn't notice any bearing or break issues .
Could this slight discoloration be from just being on road and being new tires?

[jadatis]

Dont know about that discoloration, but dont think its from overheating.
Did you wear polized sunglasser by any chanche , they also give strange colorization effects sometimes.

Overheating by to low pressure/to much deflection, gives mostly damage on the thicker parts where treath goes over to sidewall, because isolation of the rubber makes the temp of rubber in the middle to high, and you wont see that from the outside( also not with a camera inside tire).

But if 65 psi gives you a good ride and save feeling , keep it at that, but know for the future that if you measure 58 psi sometime, not to be alarmed and scared you mayby have damaged the tires.

the weighing of tonge weight off the car explaines the more weighed weiht of trailer axle . I assume the 1620/1760 weight also was determined when not atached to the car.

Once read the WDH transports about 1/3th of the towbarweight from rear tires of car to the trailer and front wheels of car so expected aproximate weight when WDH was not used is next. 1/3th of 300 = 100 lbs

Old given on Weight slip/ new expected when no WDH.
Steer 2440lbs/ 2390 lbs
Drive 2880 lbs/ 2980 lbs
Trailer 3440lbs/ 3390 lbs
Gross weight 8760/ 8760- weight of WDH.

The advice of 58 psi was based on the higher weight on trailer axle when using the WDH as you use.
If you tighten the chains of WDH the weigt is even more distributed and so more weight on Trailer tires and front wheels.

For offroad driving this would not be good, could lift the drive axle off the ground in the worst case when going trough a ditch.

[DougHeffernan]

Thank you very much.. You have been a wealth of information. I will defiantly put to use