Vexing power issue

iceclimber · 03-17-2018, 06:40 PM

The GFI and Microwave are not working when plugged into shore power. All other 110v things are working fine. I took everything apart and noted these two breakers are to the left of the 50 amp mains. I looked behind the breakers and low and behold the bus is split with the mains bridging. I measure the power at the bus and it's 12v on the left side. The converter appears to be fine, no blown fuses, but the 12v is acting funky. When I removed fuses to check them, only a couple lit up. I hear legend of a 12v breaker or push fuse that can cause this behavior. Any ideas, oh mighty forum ?

**Bama Rambler** · 03-17-2018, 06:45 PM

Sounds like a couple of different things going on here.
1. Were you plugged into 50 amp service or was it 30 amp service with an adapter. Sounds like one leg of the incoming power was off.

2. The blown fuse indicators only light when the fuse is blown or out IF there's a load on the circuit. (i.e. if a light circuit has all the lights switched off and you pull the fuse, the blown fuse indicator won't light up because there's no load on the circuit.

cavie · 03-17-2018, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

The GFI and Microwave are not working when plugged into shore power. All other 110v things are working fine. I took everything apart and noted these two breakers are to the left of the 50 amp mains. I looked behind the breakers and low and behold the bus is split with the mains bridging. I measure the power at the bus and it's 12v on the left side. The converter appears to be fine, no blown fuses, but the 12v is acting funky. When I removed fuses to check them, only a couple lit up. I hear legend of a 12v breaker or push fuse that can cause this behavior. Any ideas, oh mighty forum ?

So you're saying you have 120 volts AC on the right bus and 12 volts on the left? Is this 12 volt AC or DC? Now you say your removing fuses? I'm cornfused

The split phase panel is AC only. 50 amp available on both sides. Since you don't have proper voltage at the panel go out to the pedestal and check the voltage at the source. Electric 101. Start at the source and work your way back. If using adaptors measure there also. Since your talking 50 amp did you twistlok your shore power into the trailer?. Did you screw on the retaining collar? Don't understand "acting funky". Your GFI won't reset? Are you plugged into a 20 amp shore power GFI? @ GFI's in series don't play nice. You have at least 2 things going on here per your discription.

iceclimber · 03-17-2018, 07:47 PM

Dude, shut the front door. That's probably it. I am running a 110v cord into an adapter, as basically it's all I have available and it's probably a 15 amp circuit. I was just thinking one of the 50 amp breakers might be bad. So basically not enough amperage to energize the entire bus then.

I can test this by firing up my generator, its 30 amp but I bet it will work. Have to wait to tomorrow as I am having vodka therapy after a frustrating day.

Thank you !

CHICKDOE · 03-17-2018, 08:13 PM

your comment about not enough amperage to energize the entire bus bothers me. you should have 115vac on both side of the panels even with everything off. in this case you would have 115vac and no amps flowing. you should only get a max of 15 amps from the 15 amp circuit you are plugged into, but they should be available to any circuit and the circuit should have 115 vac. you should have 115vac on both sides of the panel. the fact that you say two 50 amp breakers implies you have a unit wired for 50 amp service. there should be voltage of 115 vac on both sides. the fact that you say you only have 12 volts on one side is a problem. is that 12 vac on the side that is not working? the 12 volt dc fuses are a completely different issue. the gfci and microwave operate in 115 vac. your problem appears to be that you only have 12vac on one side of the distribution panel. i would disconnect the power cord from the trailer and measure the voltage on each leg at the end of the power cord. you should have 115 vac on leg 1 and leg 2. if not, go to the next connection in line towards the power supply you are plugged into. keep measuring to verify that you have 115vac on both legs. at some point you must have an adapter that goes from the three prong connector used for 30 amp or 15 amp to the four connections used for 50 amp. measure the output of this adapter as this is where the 115vac on the 3 connector cabling is jumpered to provide the 115 vac on both legs of the 4 conductor 50 amp cabling. if it is not this adapter there may be a loose / corroded / damaged terminal in the 50 amp cable, trailer receptacle, or trailer cabling.

cavie · 03-17-2018, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

Dude, shut the front door. That's probably it. I am running a 110v cord into an adapter, as basically it's all I have available and it's probably a 15 amp circuit. I was just thinking one of the 50 amp breakers might be bad. So basically not enough amperage to energize the entire bus then.

I can test this by firing up my generator, its 30 amp but I bet it will work. Have to wait to tomorrow as I am having vodka therapy after a frustrating day.

Thank you !

Amperage does not energize a circuit. Voltage does. Amperage is what is drawn by a particular piece of equipment. Forget about amperage with this issue. As I asked before, Are you plugging into a GFI 120 volt circuit?? If you are that is why your trailer GFI and the microwave don't work. Move you shore power to a non-GFI circuit. Try your garage or your washing machine. Reset your GFI after you plug in. But that is only 1/2 of the problem. See if you have 120 volts at the end of the cord where you plug into the trailer. Electric 101 always start st the source and work your way back. Measure thru the adpter. Measure at the main 50 amp breakers they both must work.

iceclimber · 03-17-2018, 11:17 PM

Thanks guys I'll check it out tomorrow.

iceclimber · 03-17-2018, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cavie

Amperage does not energize a circuit. Voltage does. Amperage is what is drawn by a particular piece of equipment. Forget about amperage with this issue. As I asked before, Are you plugging into a GFI 120 volt circuit?? If you are that is why your trailer GFI and the microwave don't work. Move you shore power to a non-GFI circuit. Try your garage or your washing machine. Reset your GFI after you plug in. But that is only 1/2 of the problem. See if you have 120 volts at the end of the cord where you plug into the trailer. Electric 101 always start st the source and work your way back. Measure thru the adpter. Measure at the main 50 amp breakers they both must work.

No, the power source is not a GFI.

cavie · 03-18-2018, 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

No, the power source is not a GFI.

thank you.

**wmtire** · 03-18-2018, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

The GFI and Microwave are not working when plugged into shore power. All other 110v things are working fine. I took everything apart and noted these two breakers are to the left of the 50 amp mains. I looked behind the breakers and low and behold the bus is split with the mains bridging. I measure the power at the bus and it's 12v on the left side. The converter appears to be fine, no blown fuses, but the 12v is acting funky. When I removed fuses to check them, only a couple lit up. I hear legend of a 12v breaker or push fuse that can cause this behavior. Any ideas, oh mighty forum ?

OK, from reading above it appears we need to first gain an understanding of your RV's electrical systems, which consists of a 120 volt AC one, and also a 12 volt DC one.

Please read these two links before proceeding:

Basic RV Electricity - RV Information (RV Maintenance)

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...nt-152813.html

Now, you state that certain things to the left side of your RV's main 50 amp circuit breakers are not currently working. Let's also delve into how 50 amps are distributed to and inside your RV. These diagrams/links will help you understand that.......and also the adapter you are using to connect to a 30 or 20/15 amp outlet at your house ....which we will discuss later too, as it could possibly be your problem.

Please read this link below before proceeding.

https://www.rvtechmag.com/electrical/chapter3.php

Now here is where your adapter comes into play. As explained in the link above, when you plug into a 30 amp or 15/20 amp outlet at your house which only have one leg/line (L1) as opposed to a 50 amp that has two leg/lines (L1 and L2), the adapter is going have to "share/jump" this one leg over to both busses of your 50 amp RV...so everything can be powered.

Here are some schematics of how the adapter does such:

Now, we have had some instances just recently of where some store bought adapters are not properly jumping/sharing the one leg over to both busses of your RV's 50 amp distribution panels....so in actuality only one side of your RV is getting powered. This could possibly be what your problem is, and it's just a faulty adapter.

Here is a recent thread on a faulty/miswired adapter:

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1738251

iceclimber · 03-18-2018, 09:22 AM

The brand new adapter has a dead hole. Thanks guys.

**wmtire** · 03-18-2018, 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

The brand new adapter has a dead hole. Thanks guys.

Not sure of your terminology there. Could you possibly post a pic of this adapter?

Thanks

This pic will show you the near about voltages (they can vary and not be exactly 120 volts) you should be getting on the 50 amp connection end of the adapter when plugged into a 30/20/15 amp outlet. It is the one on the far right:

iceclimber · 03-18-2018, 09:32 AM

It's a 15/30/50 adapter. One leg is not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

**wmtire** · 03-18-2018, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

It's a 15/30/50 adapter. One leg is not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

We call those type, cheater adapters.

What exactly are you plugged into and where, to be both plugged into a 30 amp and 15 amp outlet? I just reread your posts and see where you stated you ran an extension cord tot he 15 amp side of this cheater adapter.

cavie · 03-18-2018, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

It's a 15/30/50 adapter. One leg is not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Anotherone bits the dust!

**wmtire** · 03-18-2018, 09:46 AM

As Cavie initially asked, if you were plugged into any type GFCI, many campground 20/15 amp outlets are actually the GFCI type, similar to this pic below:

These cheater adapters will not work with a GFCI outlet, and state such. This is copied from the product description of your actual Amazon link:

"This Lavolta product is a polarized adapter designed for use with recreational vehicles (RVs). It must only be used with appropriate power supplies and properly sized circuit breakers. Will not work with a GFI type outlet."

Here is just a recent thread on this exact same scenario, where I explained the cheater adapters and gfci outlets.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...ml#post1742021

The outlet you have the extension cord ran to, what/where is it?

cavie · 03-18-2018, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

It's a 15/30/50 adapter. One leg is not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Does yours have a UL logo on it?

cavie · 03-18-2018, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

The brand new adapter has a dead hole. Thanks guys.

Are you only using the 20 amp side of this cord?? If so you will only get one leg by design. The 30 amp side provides 1 leg 30 amps. The 20 amp side (If pluged into a 20 amp ckt) provides the other leg 20 amps. 50 amps total to a split bus panel. I can Only ASSUME you do not have a 30 amp RV outlet at home.

**wmtire** · 03-18-2018, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iceclimber

It's a 15/30/50 adapter. One leg is not working.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

iceclimber, you may want to send that cheater adapter back to Amazon, since finding a place where you can actually use it get 45 amps are going to be far and few between.

You probably do want to go ahead and get one like this, where you will have 30 amps, as you may very well encounter parks that do not have 50 amp outlets.

https://www.amazon.com/Camco-Dogbone...30+amp+adapter

iceclimber · 03-18-2018, 10:23 AM

Hi, yes I read the product description and I know it doesn't work on a GFI. Yes, I tested it with 30 amp (with my handy generator much to the joy of my neighbors) and yes I am sending it back. It's absolutely got a bad leg. Yes, I am going to run a 50 amp out to the trailer for home use. Yes I will buy a regular 30/50 adapter for most parks and my genny.

Thanks all, happy camping. Appreciate the help.

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