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Old 09-15-2022, 07:27 PM   #1
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Coaxial Cable in ePro 19FBS

Does anyone have any records or knowledge about the coaxial cable which is used in this unit. The cables are purple, pink, and white, and are supposed to be RG-6 coaxial cables.


The problem I'm experiencing is a standard Belden PPC-EX6PLPlus F-connector, (standard CATV connectors) will not go over the cable. The center "white" dielectric is larger than standard.


I have no documentation on the unit to come up with the right answer.
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Old 09-15-2022, 07:54 PM   #2
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Moved to the Flagstaff sub-forum since the OP is asking for model-specific information.
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:48 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FredV View Post
Does anyone have any records or knowledge about the coaxial cable which is used in this unit. The cables are purple, pink, and white, and are supposed to be RG-6 coaxial cables.


The problem I'm experiencing is a standard Belden PPC-EX6PLPlus F-connector, (standard CATV connectors) will not go over the cable. The center "white" dielectric is larger than standard.


I have no documentation on the unit to come up with the right answer.
Is the cable Quad RG6?
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Old 09-16-2022, 08:20 PM   #4
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Is the cable Quad RG6?

No, they are single RG-6 cables. It's some kind of cheap cable as there is very little shield on the cable, (which may be part of the problem), and even worse connectors.


I took off all the original RG-6 connectors inside the camper and replaced them with PPC EX6XL connectors, (picture below), which helped the signal.


However, I have the feeling to get it right I'll have to get the dealer to change the antenna, and then I'll need to put all new coax in with 99.7% shield. There is something wonky with the antenna where it goes into feedback, and when that happens I lose all radio and TV stations.





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Old 09-30-2022, 08:05 PM   #5
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I thought I would update the group on my status with this issue. In a word; depressing.

Two other engineers and I went through the unit trying to solve the problem with the TV and Radio.

The TV receives no TV signals unless you're within 4 miles of the television station transmitter. We were able to pick up three in our area, channel 8, 15, and 17. A fourth on channel 4 could not be receive on the antenna without extreme breakup.

The FM radio is also deaf, only receiving 3 or so stations, while a handheld radio inside the camper is picking up 26 to 35 in various levels of strength.

The dealer had a replacement antenna and amplifier which we tested at his facility, and they acted the same as the original unit does.

After contacting Pete Liegl, I was put in contact with two employees at Forest River. One has not responded, the other is not providing answers to my questions, and refuses to give me a contact at the manufacturer of the product (Winegard). This is perhaps more telling of the customer to company relationship with the product.

The dealer did invite me over yesterday, Thursday 9/29/2022, and he exposed the coax cables, and I repaired the defective connectors with new connectors. The cable is some type of Chinese knock-off coax, and while it was not the best, it did work. So we proved the cables are good as they can be. And having found (2) more defective F-connectors, we could rule out the cable connectors as a problem.

In antennas, specifications are based on a standard dipole, and typically the gain is expressed in terms of decibels, (dB) or (dBI). An antenna with a gain of +3dB is considered OK. A better antenna would in in the +6dB range. Every 3dB is half the power gain or loss.

The Winegard antenna was tested by establishing a benchmark for reception with a dipole cut to 479 MHz (channel 15 - local station). A measurement was made of the signal level into a calibrated field service monitor. Then the Winegard antenna was measure and it demonstrated a -5.34 dB loss of signal.

Several other stations were measured, and while the signal level varied due to station power and frequency, the Winegard antenna scored in the -4.42 to -8.72 dB range consistently and reliably. In other words, the antenna loses signal rather than provides gain. (Side note: The TV was receiving two of station with no coax connected to it).

The next test was on the amplifier, which is on the back of a faceplate, behind the TV. Using the both the received signal, as well as an 8VSB/ATSC-1 signal from a test set, we determined that the amplifier (which is unshielded), had a gain of nearly 27 dB. This was puzzling to all of us until one of the fellows came up with the thought that Winegard, knowing the antenna is lossy, probably made the amp that way to make up for the losses in the antenna. I’ve tried to get in touch with Winegard, but to date calls and e-mails go unanswered. Disappointing.

At this point we looked at the entire spectrum, including frequencies outside of the TV band.

In our area there is 1 VHF low band station, 1 VHF high band station on channel 8, and 2 UHF stations on channels 15 and 17.

The TV band starts at 2 and runs to 6, which is 54 to 88 MHz. 88 to 108 MHz is FM broadcast. Aircraft is 118 to 135 MHz. Ham Radio is 144 to 148 MHz. Mobile/Marine is 150-173 MHz.

Channel 7 to 13 is 174 to 216 MHz. Then there is government and military. Then we pick up channel 14 to 36 from 470 to 608 MHz. From 608 up to 902 MHz is LTE, 5G, MARCS radio, and other business and government services. And this is where the problem arises with the amplifier.

While looking at the output of the amplifier we were seeing all these signals outside the TV bands. When the 5G and MARCS services would come on the air, we noticed that the amplifier would become overloaded and oscillate. If we had a picture from a local station at the time, when the oscillation would occur, the TV set would lose lock from the TV station, the picture would freeze, and drop out.

We also noted that a semi-local FM station, which was an OK field strength, but weak would also disappear when this occurred. And, the AM radio would not operate unless the amplifier was turned on.

To get a comparison to another unit we asked a friend to bring over his camper which has a GE antenna, and Channel Master amplifier. Parked next to my camper we compared reception. With his GE antenna and Channel Master amplifier, he received 12 television station. We only got 3 TV stations. To rule out my TV, we made two long jumpers and hooked my antenna to his TV, and his antenna to my TV. And now I had 12 station and he only had 3. The problem followed the antenna and amplifier!

Conclusion: There is something seriously wrong with the Winegard Teton antenna system, and especially the round "flying saucer" or "pancake" antenna. The question is, what to do about it?

If I keep the unit, we’ll need to do something to replace the antenna and amp. However, the dealer says that the mounting on the roof is specifically designed for the Teton and no other antenna can be installed.

Do we try to come up with some way to retrofit another antenna? Do we leave the antenna and put a second antenna somewhere on the camper?

Based on previous issues with the electrical wiring and plumbing, I’m more likely going to have to return the camper as I don't see a solution to this problem, and we purchased this unit with the TV so my wife could watch her shows.

I'd be interested to know if anyone has a different antenna, and how it works. A make/model would be helpful.
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Old 09-30-2022, 08:55 PM   #6
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I get your frustration but I think your making a mountain out of a mole hill. I haven't heard anything good about any of the antennas on RV's, just too many compromises. That would be true of most brands you would trade this in for.
Easiest solution is to buy a decent outdoor antenna and mount it to a pole. When you get to camp attach it to you ladder and aim towards the best TV stations.
Not the most elegant solution but works very well for those I've read about.

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Old 09-30-2022, 09:22 PM   #7
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Why can't they just put a patch over the hole in the roof where the Teton antenna was mounted.

My 2 cents, though (which will be worth about a dime by the end of the year!), I don't think you will be happing keeping this trailer. I think you will continue to find things wrong with it that bother you.
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Old 10-01-2022, 04:48 AM   #8
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Well, Jim, as a first time buyer who was told that this system is just like watching TV at home, that doesn't speak well of the industry when it's "expected" to never hear anything good about the system and it's common in all units.
I suspect the solution is what "Navy" said; take out the Teton, and install something which does works.
It's not that it's impossible to receive signals. It's that the manufacturer's design is based on inferior equipment and overselling the performance.
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Old 10-01-2022, 05:32 AM   #9
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Well, Jim, as a first time buyer who was told that this system is just like watching TV at home, that doesn't speak well of the industry when it's "expected" to never hear anything good about the system and it's common in all units.
I suspect the solution is what "Navy" said; take out the Teton, and install something which does works.
It's not that it's impossible to receive signals. It's that the manufacturer's design is based on inferior equipment and overselling the performance.
And the omni-directional saucer antennas will never be as good as the old crank-up style rotatable directional antennas with a signal level meter.
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Old 10-01-2022, 11:02 AM   #10
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And the omni-directional saucer antennas will never be as good as the old crank-up style rotatable directional antennas with a signal level meter.
This was the idea behind my comment. For what ever reason the manufactures went to the low slung omni antenna that sit 6" above the roof line with the ac unit(s) blocking line of site,..... Clearly not a good setup and selling it as wonderful is shame.

I see the OP is a TV engineer so this is got to hurt even more.

I have the slightly older version of the wineguard somewhat directional antenna. It still sucks for the most part. It rotates 350 degrees give or take.

I think someone on this forum posted that they had the old batwing antenna that they did two mods to. First they extended the length of the arm so when they put it up it is now 6-7 feet higher than the trailer. Then they said they replace the antenna itself with a better direction antenna. Said both mods greatly improved TV reception. A lot of effort, especially if you are not starting with a batwing. But that or a stand alone antenna are probably the only options to get a good signal.

Goodluck.

Jim M.
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Old 10-02-2022, 08:31 AM   #11
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As a test I took out the preamp yesterday, and installed a Channel Master CM7777HD amplifier. There was some improvement in quality of signal, but I was just amplifying bad reception. The pancake antenna has got to go.

I think the focus has to be on how to remove the Winegard antenna, and reuse the mounting holes and cable access penetrations for a better antenna mount.

The AM/FM radio could be divorced from the TV antenna, and put on its own aftermarket whip antenna.
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