Dealing with dealers! Tips and advice?

[Mccarty11740]

Anyone have any advice on how much to counter the dealers price? They are already the lowest prices around...They keep saying the owner is the only one who can take $$ off the price. They also he won't too. I'm trying to do 90% of this process over the phone/email so there is no surprises when I get there. I'm out here in the Bay Area of California.

Thanks

[bikendan]

I lived in the Bay Area and ended up buying my Rockwood in the Midwest because West Coast dealers take advantage of their customers.
They don't have to deal because most people won't make the trip for better prices.
Same goes for used prices too.

[5picker]

Every dealer is different as to what they'll knock off.
Reports of +-30% off MSRP seem to be the norm although reports of West Coast prices do seem somewhat different.

Only you can be happy with what you pay.
Call around and research and if you find a lower price, put it in front of said dealer.
They'll either match it or they won't.
Really the ball is in your court and you can walk away if you want.

Money isn't everything when buying a R/V. There are a lot of factors in choosing a dealer and many of them depend on how handy you are at taking care of issues. If you can fix the little things, having a good dealer close by isn't too important. If you are one that needs someone else to fix/adjust every little thing, then a dealer 1000 miles away isn't going to help you much and neither will the ones closer if you didn't buy from them.

The big stuff you can get fixed by a mobile tech or another dealer but be prepared to wait if you didn't buy from them.

Best of luck

[wmtire]

Originally Posted by Mccarty11740

.They keep saying the owner is the only one who can take $$ off the price. They also he won't too.

It sounds like you are buying a RV that is on cosignment, and not a new one. Is this correct?

[Indy500]

The last dealership I dealt with said the same about the owner , they were talking about the man that owned the dealership. The best thing to do is find some place in another state that has something similar to what your looking at . Usually you can call them a get a price, tell them that your looking at one in your state but are trying to save as much a possible. Get the price offer and if better than the local guy. Tell the local you are willing to go pick it up to save . Once they know you found another they will move down on price. I did that 2 campers ago. The place out of state even sent me a promise price with payment already worked out taxes an all. I took it to the local guy and said here is what a competitor will do , please look at it . He said he didn't want to see it . I said you really need to look at it. Because I'm buying a camper this weekend and if I need to drive there to get it I need to get on the road. They matched the price in about 20 minutes, after they called the owner.

[Indy500]

They all want as much as they can get from you , put they also dont want to lose a sale. Usually a few thousand dollars wont break a deal , but you can bet they are still making money off the sale , just not as much as they wanted to

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by Mccarty11740

Anyone have any advice on how much to counter the dealers price? They are already the lowest prices around...They keep saying the owner is the only one who can take $$ off the price. They also he won't too. I'm trying to do 90% of this process over the phone/email so there is no surprises when I get there. I'm out here in the Bay Area of California.

Thanks

I would NOT buy an RV without actually seeing it and walking through it first.

Most especially if it was a used unit!

[Flybob]

When you finally decide and are ready to buy, be sure to take the emotion out of the deal. Do not sign anything until the unit is exactly how you want it. Dealers are very busy and it will sit and sit if you accept the " sign for it and take it and use it a few times then bring it back for anything that needs repair".

[IsleDog]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

I would NOT buy an RV without actually seeing it and walking through it first.

Most especially if it was a used unit!

My wife and i just did this! We found what we wanted online, found the dealer with the best price for the features we wanted, found out what our trade was actually selling for at other dealers, and negotiated pricing online/over the phone. PDI of our new rig and our trade was completed before signing the check and paperwork. negotiations can very easily be taken care of well ahead of actually stepping foot onto the lot. we were on the lot only once, to drop the trade, complete paperwork, PDI, and done!

[JohnD10]

Originally Posted by IsleDog

My wife and i just did this! We found what we wanted online, found the dealer with the best price for the features we wanted, found out what our trade was actually selling for at other dealers, and negotiated pricing online/over the phone. PDI of our new rig and our trade was completed before signing the check and paperwork. negotiations can very easily be taken care of well ahead of actually stepping foot onto the lot. we were on the lot only once, to drop the trade, complete paperwork, PDI, and done!

Like I said...

I wouldn't buy an RV without seeing it first...especially a used RV.

You can do whatever you want!

[scottnlindsay]

Sounds like NOT my kind of dealer. What happens after the sale is very important too, and it sounds to me like you will have a very hard time getting anything done after the sale. Sounds like a take your money and run dealer.

I sold cars for a living and there is always room on price. Everyone says they have the best price.

When we bought our new camper, we bought around this time when camper shows were going on and used that to negotiate price at my dealer. Went to shows and got prices and then went back to my dealer. My dealer was not at this show. And I get awesome service from them even today, Five years after the sale which is very important to me.

Good luck and make sure if you do deal with this dealer you get two full tanks of propane, battery, and a spare tire. My in laws bought the same camper we have from a different dealer then us (just because my dealer was out of stock and they needed one fast) and didn't get none of that.

And I am in the Midwest

[Indy500]

Originally Posted by JohnD10

Like I said...

I wouldn't buy an RV without seeing it first...especially a used RV.

You can do whatever you want!

Well yes of course he would want to see it first. But if new it's a bit different. Used yes go look and crawl on your knees and feel everything, look for water damage , push on the floor and walls , look for weak spots. Not all water damage is visible by just looking.

[Susanmcnabb]

Gas mask, holy water, garlic, silver, cross....I think that covers most bases

[Philkaty]

a lot of dealers just want the sale then don't care if the RV gets fixed or not.

[Rvdixie]

Originally Posted by Indy500

The last dealership I dealt with said the same about the owner , they were talking about the man that owned the dealership. The best thing to do is find some place in another state that has something similar to what your looking at . Usually you can call them a get a price, tell them that your looking at one in your state but are trying to save as much a possible. Get the price offer and if better than the local guy. Tell the local you are willing to go pick it up to save . Once they know you found another they will move down on price. I did that 2 campers ago. The place out of state even sent me a promise price with payment already worked out taxes an all. I took it to the local guy and said here is what a competitor will do , please look at it . He said he didn't want to see it . I said you really need to look at it. Because I'm buying a camper this weekend and if I need to drive there to get it I need to get on the road. They matched the price in about 20 minutes, after they called the owner.

I know this won't matter or change anyone's mind but just think how unfair that was to the out of town dealer who spent the time putting together a deal that he never had a chance of winning. These are the type of things that began the games that we find ourselves playing today. As an example of how to do it. I recently was in the market for a diamond engagement ring. Knowing nothing about diamonds I did my homework online without bothering anyone for about two weeks. When I felt I had a good idea of what I wanted and how much the average cost was, I went to my local jeweler and asked him simply if he could beat or meet the best price I could find. He said he could not so I bought the one I had found online. These people work on commission and the time spent quoting you a price just for you to shop, is time they might have spent with a real customer, who could have provided them a commission.

[mawilson]

In any negotiation:

• Your mission is to get the best deal for you. They want the best deal for them.
• Have three numbers in mind and stick to them: opening offer, most desirable outcome, last and final or the walk away number. If you can't get under the last one, then walk away, don't rationalize moving it.
• The sales person is not your friend. They are trained to come off like it, though. Be civil and polite, but keep your guard up.
• You don't have to buy an RV to eat. They have to sell one to eat.
• Time is your friend. This works two ways. you can come prepared for an all day affair or you can set a time limit and if the deal isn't done by then, walk away. They will try to take over time by 'checking with a manager'. The sales manual likely says the longer it takes the more likely you'll say yes. Remember, if they are sitting with you they aren't working another customer. Electronic negotiation is convenient, but you won't be able to use time on your side.
• Don't get invested. Be ready to just walk away. They don't want you to leave the dealership because they know it's highly likely you won't be back.
• They can try to tell you what it's worth. Just remember that anything is only worth what a willing buyer is willing to pay. You are the willing buyer.
• The sales person will want you to sign or initial your counter offers. Don't bother. The only thing you need to sign is the sales order when it accurately reflects the deal you've agreed to. You can play the trust card here if you wish.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by Indy500

They all want as much as they can get from you , put they also dont want to lose a sale. Usually a few thousand dollars wont break a deal , but you can bet they are still making money off the sale , just not as much as they wanted to

Indy 500 is right, but allow me to add a little:

Dealers want the most they can get for the unit. Period. Here's how it works:

(1) Dealer’s bottom price to is what they think they’ll get from another buyer. They won’t go lower. They have advantage unless you know what they have in mind.

(2) They ask you for MORE than their bottom price. They start high, hoping to chisel every dollar you have. Dealer pretends EVERY offer you make is too low, even if it’s fair. They* lie, act insulted, insult you, and/or imply you are very, very stupid. They say anything to make you doubt yourself and pay more. Don’t believe any of it. Don’t take it personally, it’s what they do. They may come down some, but they will never agree to your offer until they believe you have made your highest offer, and you are walking away and never coming back. You may have to actually walk away. They will never accept your offer until they think you are DONE. Just do it. [My personal tactic is to walk out the door and call out “You got my number!” as I exit the building.]

(3) At some point, the dealer will believe your offer is the highest they can ever squeeze out of you. If your offer is below their bottom price. No deal. IF your offer is above their bottom price, you probably have walked out, so they will chase you out into the parking lot or call you. At some point they accept your offer, smile, shake your hand and start telling you what a deal you have made and how wonderful you are. Even if you overpaid, they want you to feel like a shrewd negotiator.

(4) AFTER you think you have a deal, then the next chiseling phase begins. During paper work, talk turns to dealer fees, dealer prep, doc fees, paperwork cost, extra costs for title and registration above actual state fees, paint coatings, options, insurance, loans, ad nauseum. There are no lengths too far or practices too low that a dealer will not use to add more cost to you after you have made a deal. Don’t fall for any of it. It’s up to you to refuse everything, get the deal you made or walk away again.

Above is my assessment of how dealer “negotiations” work. If your dealer is a unicorn, they may skip step 4.

Summary: Dealer knows his secret bottom price, but wants all he can get from you or the next buyer. You make offer and make the dealer believe it’s all he’ll ever get from you. Everything else is strategy and tactics.

I welcome all comments. I want to know what others think! Dealers as well as buyers!


*Just in case some dealer suggests they control every salesperson on the lot and can personally vouch that none of his salespeople would ever fudge the truth, then "They" means "almost every dealer." Maybe there are unicorns. --Buyer beware.

[Slow Moon]

Originally Posted by Rvdixie

I know this won't matter or change anyone's mind but just think how unfair that was to the out of town dealer who spent the time putting together a deal that he never had a chance of winning. These are the type of things that began the games that we find ourselves playing today. As an example of how to do it. I recently was in the market for a diamond engagement ring. Knowing nothing about diamonds I did my homework online without bothering anyone for about two weeks. When I felt I had a good idea of what I wanted and how much the average cost was, I went to my local jeweler and asked him simply if he could beat or meet the best price I could find. He said he could not so I bought the one I had found online. These people work on commission and the time spent quoting you a price just for you to shop, is time they might have spent with a real customer, who could have provided them a commission.

You are suggesting that a dealer does not already know the price he will take, and it is a lot of work for him to figure it out? Even if that was true, would the dealer not have to figure out a price at some point before selling the unit? I don't see the harm.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by Rvdixie

I know this won't matter or change anyone's mind but just think how unfair that was to the out of town dealer who spent the time putting together a deal that he never had a chance of winning. These are the type of things that began the games that we find ourselves playing today. As an example of how to do it. I recently was in the market for a diamond engagement ring. Knowing nothing about diamonds I did my homework online without bothering anyone for about two weeks. When I felt I had a good idea of what I wanted and how much the average cost was, I went to my local jeweler and asked him simply if he could beat or meet the best price I could find. He said he could not so I bought the one I had found online. These people work on commission and the time spent quoting you a price just for you to shop, is time they might have spent with a real customer, who could have provided them a commission.

And this probably won't go over well since I'm sure I've seen you post about being in the business...

When I'm buying something, the ONLY thing that matters to me is how I feel about the transaction. I am spending my hard earned money and the more of it I can keep the better for ME.

If a dealer (of anything) wants my business they are going to have to earn it.
If that means spending time working up a price and I decide to buy elsewhere... well then so be it.

That's where we've gone wrong, especially in the R/V business. No one seems to want to hold a seller/dealer or the manufacturer accountable.
The buyer gets all wrapped up in the emotionalism of the sale and agrees to about anything and the dealer... well they simply want to make money... anyway they can.

I suppose it's a byproduct of shopping on the 'net. Buy it cheap and don't expect any face to face time with anyone. And if something goes wrong... well we'll just throw it away and get another one.

Don't get me wrong... there are good dealers and where we bought our last 5th wheel is surely one. B&R Camper Sales in Butler, PA.

They spent the time necessary to answer ALL our questions, called the factory on things they didn't know about, (prior to the sale) did a proper PDI/Customer Orientation, filled our propane tanks for free, installed a bigger battery at no charge (on request) and made absolutely sure WE were happy in EVERY phase of the transaction. Again, that is what I EXPECT or I'm headed elsewhere.

I will go back to them in a heartbeat if my next unit is something they carry and I will continue to tell EVERYONE how well they treated me.

What I won't do is spend my money with someone that believes I'm not worth the effort if their commission isn't where they want it to be.

Good pricing, good service and word of mouth is how a good dealer makes money and stays in business. Anything less is nothing.

[Ejs4029]

Originally Posted by Slow Moon

Indy 500 is right, but allow me to add a little:

Dealers want the most they can get for the unit. Period. Here's how it works:

(1) Dealer’s bottom price to is what they think they’ll get from another buyer. They won’t go lower. They have advantage unless you know what they have in mind.

(2) They ask you for MORE than their bottom price. They start high, hoping to chisel every dollar you have. Dealer pretends EVERY offer you make is too low, even if it’s fair. They lie, act insulted, insult you, and/or imply you are very, very stupid. They say anything to make you doubt yourself and pay more. Don’t believe any of it. Don’t take it personally, it’s what they do. They may come down some, but they will never agree to your offer until they believe you have made your highest offer, and you are walking away and never coming back. You may have to actually walk away. They will never accept your offer until they think you are DONE. Just do it. [My personal tactic is to walk out the door and call out “You got my number!” as I exit the building.]

(3) At some point, the dealer will believe your offer is the highest they can ever squeeze out of you. If your offer is below their bottom price. No deal. IF your offer is above their bottom price, you probably have walked out, so they will chase you out into the parking lot or call you. At some point they accept your offer, smile, shake your hand and start telling you what a deal you have made and how wonderful you are. Even if you overpaid, they want you to feel like a shrewd negotiator.

(4) AFTER you think you have a deal, then the next chiseling phase begins. During paper work, talk turns to dealer fees, dealer prep, doc fees, paperwork cost, extra costs for title and registration above actual state fees, paint coatings, options, insurance, loans, ad nauseum. There are no lengths too far or practices too low that a dealer will not use to add more cost to you after you have made a deal. Don’t fall for any of it. It’s up to you to refuse everything, get the deal you made or walk away again.

Above is my assessment of how dealer “negotiations” work. If your dealer is a unicorn, they may skip step 4.

Summary: Dealer knows his secret bottom price, but wants all he can get from you or the next buyer. You make offer and make the dealer believe it’s all he’ll ever get from you. Everything else is strategy and tactics.

I welcome all comments. I want to know what others think! Dealers as well as buyers!

Any Dealer still in Business must be doing something right...Good Bad or indifferent