E-Pro 19FD with Honda Odyssey

[washedNblood]

Good morning! My wife and I are new to towing and campers, but both grew up tent camping. As our kids have moved to university we now find ourselves wanting to get back to nature.

We have a 2017 Honda Odyssey Touring Elite and are looking at the Flagstaff E-Pro 19FD. Would we be able to tow this setup? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

[HangDiver]

The short answer is no. Max tow capacity of the Odyssey from your owners manual is 3,500lbs. The E Pro Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) loaded up ready to camp is 4,300lbs.

[Ox Brown]

Probably not. You'll need to know your Honda's payload capacity. It will be listed on the driver's door frame. We had a 19FD, and fully loaded the tongue weight was 520lbs. So you'd subtract that from the payload number. Then subtract the weight of everything in your Honda, including the weight of the occupants. Your payload number will get used up very quick.

I was towing our 19FD with a Nissan Frontier with a payload capacity of 1152lbs. When I subtracted the tongue weight of the trailer and everything in the truck, I was just under the payload capacity. However, I was not happy with the towing experience, it never felt "planted" to the road, possibly due to the short wheelbase of the Frontier.

In the end, I moved up to a full size truck and towing experience was excellent with the 19FD.

[washedNblood]

Hmmm…that’s disappointing. When we were looking at the lot the weight was listed at 3200 (for this 2022 model), and multiple people there said we’d be okay. But of course we started doing some research online and have been getting lots of mixed information.

[washedNblood]

Here’s the info from the inside of our door.

[HangDiver]

The "dry weight" of around 3,200lbs refers to the weight of the camper as it came off the assembly line. Add batteries, propane, water, camping gear and thats where the added weight comes in.

The odyssey is better suited to pull a pop up tent trailer or A-frame hard side pop up.

[Ox Brown]

Originally Posted by HangDiver

The "dry weight" of around 3,200lbs refers to the weight of the camper as it came off the assembly line. Add batteries, propane, water, camping gear and thats where the added weight comes in.

The odyssey is better suited to pull a pop up tent trailer or A-frame hard side pop up.

x2

[HangDiver]

Below you'll find a link that that shows all the specifications of the E Pro 19fd. To help understand the issues with weights you must add the "Dry Weight" number and the "Payload Capacity" number together in order to get the total weight of the trailer as its loaded to go camping. This applies to any travel trailer that you may be considering.

Good luck in your search.

https://www.rvusa.com/rv-guide/2021-...-specs-tr50694

[bikendan]

The fictional dry tongue weightof 432lbs already exceeds the Honda's max hitch weight of 350lbs, before you add the weights of batteries, water, propane, and trailer cargo.

You are making the newbie mistake of looking at fictional dry weight numbers.
Your Honda will probably be limited to a popup or A-frame trailer.

[jimmoore13]

You are well on your way to understanding your Honda's capabilities.

Bearing in mind those capabilities, as a generalization, if you know the make and model of a rig you are considering, you can get straight manufacturer info online. Since you are shopping new, I've use the manufacturer info for a 2024 rig. If you are actually shopping used, enter the year along with the make and model. In your case, the model number was all I needed.


https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/flags...pro/E19FD/7991

How to interpret this:
~ UVW - unladen vehicle weight (dry weight) = 3417 pounds. That's as bare bones as it gets.
~ CCC - cargo carrying capacity (max weight you can add including batteries, propane, water, groceries, toilet paper, sheets, towels, dishes and silverware...in other words EVERYTHING you add = 1015 pounds.
~ GVWR - unspoken in the specs, this is Gross Vehicle Weight Rating...the absolute MAX the rig is rated to weigh given the frame, suspension, tires, brakes, etc. = UVW + CCC = 4432 pounds.
~ Hitch Weight - a mythical number that changes based on how you load the rig. In this case 432 pounds "dry." In reality, the absolute minimum hitch weight recommended is 10% of the actual weight of the rig ready to roll. Unless you have a CAT scale in your back yard, it's wise to use 10% of GVWR, or in your case, 444 pounds as the MINIMUM target tongue or hitch weight.

Anything less will turn your rig into an evil handling, tail wagging beast.

~ Loading will very likely increase tongue weight considerably. There are three major factors that add a lot to tongue weight: 1) battery ~ usually 60 to 80 pounds; 2) propane (tanks are already in the UVW calculation, but propane is not). Your rig comes with 2 tanks, and each will hold 20 pounds, so that's another 40 pounds; 3) "Exterior storage" right at the front of the trailer. This is usually where you store a bunch of somewhat heavy stuff like tools, cordless drill, stab jack pads, and so on. Let's say 40 pounds of stuff. So, most of that is on the tongue, adding roughly 120 to 140 pounds to tongue weight. After that, lots of stuff will be in the bedroom hanging lockers and bedside/couch-side stands. The kitchen is centered on the axle, as is the freshwater tank. Blackwater and grey water may unload the tongue as tanks fill, but it is highly likely that your tongue weight will naturally gravitate (pun intended) towards the 600 pounds mark.

Are you stuck with your tow vehicle? You need a smaller rig. Committed to this rig? You need a LOT more tow vehicle.

If you stick with the Honda, my suggestion would be a PopUp (PUP) rather than an A-Frame. Your choice of the E-Pro suggests you have a hankering for something roomy and a bit on the plush side. An A-Frame is seriously cramped inside, whereas a PUP can actually be considerably more roomy than the E-Pro. For many years, I had a Rockwoodl HW-277 (high wall PUP). But we're getting into some significant weight again. Fully loaded the HW-277 is up near 4000 pounds, and hitch weight would, of necessity, be 400 pounds. The 2514F is quite a bit lighter, has a dinette slide (awesome), but it sacrifices the enclosed wet bath for a potty with a curtain enclosure...that also appears to sacrifice the shower. But it's MUCH larger inside than the E-Pro.
This would be doable with your minivan.

DON'T BELIEVE RV SALES PEOPLE about the mythical towing abilites of typical vehicles and rigs. Their job is to sell, and working with dry weights, many things seem possible until reality sets in.

Always start by looking at the numbers on the manufacturer's site, do the math and come to your own conclusion. The sales person trying to sell you this E-Pro to tow behind your Honda minivan would have you ruin your Honda trying to tow the E-Pro...and maybe die in a highway accident, because the Honda is not up to the task of towing a 4500 pound RV.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by washedNblood

Hmmm…that’s disappointing. When we were looking at the lot the weight was listed at 3200 (for this 2022 model), and multiple people there said we’d be okay. But of course we started doing some research online and have been getting lots of mixed information.

You're doing the right thing by researching this before you buy.
While your car might be able to physically tow the trailer, you could end up destroying the transmission in your car and find yourself unable to control the trailer. The 'numbers' say that you can't tow that trailer.

Another poster found his solution in the No Boundaries FR trailers which start at under 2,500 lbs. The No-Boundaries 10.7 might fill your needs. https://forestriverinc.com/rvs/no-bo...es/NB10.7/8111

Good luck and welcome to the forum!

[washedNblood]

Thanks for the replies all! Glad I came here before diving in! We'll keep looking for something that will meet our needs. Sadly, we're stuck with the Odyssey as our tow vehicle, but this has been super helpful!

We actually had a call with a mechanic from the RV dealer and he also confirmed everything that people are saying here.

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by washedNblood

Thanks for the replies all! Glad I came here before diving in! We'll keep looking for something that will meet our needs. Sadly, we're stuck with the Odyssey as our tow vehicle, but this has been super helpful!

We actually had a call with a mechanic from the RV dealer and he also confirmed everything that people are saying here.

This is somewhat surprising knowing what we know about dealerships... but it's very encouraging!

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by washedNblood

Thanks for the replies all! Glad I came here before diving in! We'll keep looking for something that will meet our needs. Sadly, we're stuck with the Odyssey as our tow vehicle, but this has been super helpful!

We actually had a call with a mechanic from the RV dealer and he also confirmed everything that people are saying here.

Unfortunately you may have been taken in by the RV manufacturers. Larger single axle trailers, like the NoBo, are marketed to buyers like yourself. What they don't tell you is that these trailers have very heavy loaded tongue weights for their size. Nearly all require a tow vehicle capable of 500lbs hitch weight. This puts you in midsized SUV territory or midsized trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma.

[washedNblood]

Originally Posted by Mr. Dan

This is somewhat surprising knowing what we know about dealerships... but it's very encouraging!

lol, the sales people are still trying to say that it would be fine. The mechanic was like, “don’t bring my name up, but I wouldn’t do it”

[Mr. Dan]

Originally Posted by washedNblood

lol, the sales people are still trying to say that it would be fine. The mechanic was like, “don’t bring my name up, but I wouldn’t do it”

Ah, yes... that's a helpful clarification!

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by bikendan

like the NoBo...... Nearly all require a tow vehicle capable of 500lbs hitch weight. This puts you in midsized SUV territory or midsized trucks like the Ranger or Tacoma.

Not true.
The one I linked to has a hitch weight of 225 lbs. The other 10 series ( a toyhauler) has a hitch weight of 288 lbs. which is what another poster had decided on. The NoBo 10 series is a stripped down to the basics trailer, but is still a hard sided trailer without canvas sides.

You don't get into hitch weights of over 500 lbs. until you get into the NOBO trailer weights of 5,000 lbs.
Not arguing, Just pointing out the facts.

[Chuck_S]

Why do we have 17 messages in this thread? (18 now.) The answer was in #2.

For those who missed it: "No."
The trailer in question weights 4300 pounds when maxed out which it will be.
The Honda has a maximum towing capacity of 3500 pounds but only when empty.

Not even my 3600 pound Coleman popup from 22 years ago could be safely towed by this passenger car.

I went thru this 22 years ago with my popup and bought a Ford Explorer with an "excessive" towing capacity. Moved on since with even more towing capacity. Overkill always works.

-- Chuck

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by Reverse_snowbird

Not true.
The one I linked to has a hitch weight of 225 lbs. The other 10 series ( a toyhauler) has a hitch weight of 288 lbs. which is what another poster had decided on. The NoBo 10 series is a stripped down to the basics trailer, but is still a hard sided trailer without canvas sides.

You don't get into hitch weights of over 500 lbs. until you get into the NOBO trailer weights of 5,000 lbs.
Not arguing, Just pointing out the facts.

I did say "nearly all" at the beginning of my post.
So 12 out of 14 NoBo models would be "nearly all".

[Tlmgcamp]

Having a salesman put the OP down that path is, unfortunately, not hard to believe. However, I once saw a television program about people shopping for RVs and the show had a very similar scenario play out.