Nasty hole

[Pariah]

A hole is a hole...

Pretty sure these holes are not cut with a jigsaw or router.

[Iwritecode]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Can I ask what difference it makes in regards to function as long as the hole is completely covered by the trim? Does it matter if it is rough cut using a jig saw or router - or if it is drawn square using a square or template and sanded to a nice perfect rectangle? Really, what difference in function does it make? Here's the hole I made when I needed to change the USB ports to one with a socket for a CPAP power supply:

Attachment 260966

What difference does it make that I didn't make a perfect rectangle when the result is this?:

Attachment 260967

Do you know what the result would have been if I had sanded all the corners and made a perfect rectangle behind the outlets? Guess what, the result would have been:

Attachment 260967

So, really, exactly what difference does it make? Time is money. Why take the extra 10 or 15 minutes to make a perfect rectangle behind every outlet and for every water tube to pass through - multiplied by about 50 different holes cut in walls for everything, when the final result is going to be exactly the same?

I was kinda thinking the same thing.

[Ejs4029]

This thread reminds me of my dent vent I installed.....When I first moved to NC back in 2017 I had my trailer stored at a local campground until our house was in the finishing stages of being built.

Well one day I went over to check on the trailer and noticed a nice sized gouge in the rear passenger side J skirt it was obvious to me it was done while cutting the grass between the trailers stored there with a zero turn mower of course the campground denied what happen so anyway I was faced with try and replace the portion of J skirt or find another alternative visual it just bothered me so I found what's called a dent vent to cover the gouge and hide the damage...What's behind it isn't pretty but it's out of sight now and no one is the wiser Of course until someone asks what does that vent do in the J skirt siding on a slideout...Then I fess up

[SacRV]

Haha..yeap looks familiar. Last week I removed my Dometic HVAC thermostat to install a new Easy RV thermostat. The hole is so big (2" x 3") I couldn't even mount the new unit there. I had to relocate it above the hole. So what am I going to do with the hole? I found a roll of contact paper that appears to match the wood paneling. I'll see how well it goes over the weekend.

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Can I ask what difference it makes in regards to function as long as the hole is completely covered by the trim? Does it matter if it is rough cut using a jig saw or router - or if it is drawn square using a square or template and sanded to a nice perfect rectangle? Really, what difference in function does it make? Here's the hole I made when I needed to change the USB ports to one with a socket for a CPAP power supply:

Attachment 260966

What difference does it make that I didn't make a perfect rectangle when the result is this?:

Attachment 260967

Do you know what the result would have been if I had sanded all the corners and made a perfect rectangle behind the outlets? Guess what, the result would have been:

Attachment 260967

So, really, exactly what difference does it make? Time is money. Why take the extra 10 or 15 minutes to make a perfect rectangle behind every outlet and for every water tube to pass through - multiplied by about 50 different holes cut in walls for everything, when the final result is going to be exactly the same?

It’s called pride. If you’re at all proud of your work, the holes you cut don’t look like that.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by eric1514

It’s called pride. If you’re at all proud of your work, the holes you cut don’t look like that.

Oh. Ok. And are you going to pay current installer charge rate of about $120/hr for them to make nice pretty holes that are not visible once the component is installed? Up the price of the RV by $1,000 for nice, pretty perfectly rectangular or circular holes that you will never see unless you remove a component? I would rather keep that extra $1,000 in my pocket rather than paying the manufacture $1,000 for nice pretty square holes that are invisible behind the installed components.

It's got nothing to do with pride. It's the bottom line of $$$$. And even my time has worth to it. I will get more value from my time spending it doing something else that I enjoy more rather then making nice rectangular holes behind the outlet cover that nobody is going to see.

Or you pay a contractor to do it for you. He can charge you for 1/2 hour at $60 to put the outlet in using the rough cut hole behind it, or he can charge you 1 hour at $120 to cut a nice, measured and finished rectangular hole. You are going to pay for the "pride" one way or another.

And if someone looks at my CPAP outlet and says, Wow, you did a really nice job!" I can just lie to them - "You think that is nice, you should see the perfectly measured rectangular hole I cut behind it!" and they will never know the difference.

Now, the hole in picture #24. It only needed to be large enough for thermostat wires to come through. But, the wiring was probably in place before they put the wall panel up so instead of making a nice small hole, and poking the thermostat wire through as the wall put up, their standard practice is to just put the wall up, cut the big hole so then they can just reach in and pull the thermostat wire out.

[Capacitor]

$120 / hr? Is that what trailer manufacturers pay their employees?

[eric1514]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Oh. Ok. And are you going to pay current installer charge rate of about $120/hr for them to make nice pretty holes that are not visible once the component is installed? Up the price of the RV by $1,000 for nice, pretty perfectly rectangular or circular holes that you will never see unless you remove a component? I would rather keep that extra $1,000 in my pocket rather than paying the manufacture $1,000 for nice pretty square holes that are invisible behind the installed components.

It's got nothing to do with pride. It's the bottom line of $$$$. And even my time has worth to it. I will get more value from my time spending it doing something else that I enjoy more rather then making nice rectangular holes behind the outlet cover that nobody is going to see.

And if someone looks at my CPAP outlet and says, "Wow, you did a really nice job!" I can just lie to them - "You think that is nice, you should see the perfectly measured rectangular hole I cut behind it!" and they will never know the difference.

Well, I guess that's the difference between you and I. I don't have to lie about the work I do and I don't hire people that have two price scales, one for crap work and one for good work. It doesn't take any longer or cost anymore to do a good job. I could cut a square hole for an outlet in the same amount of time it took that worker to butcher his way through that plywood with whatever tool it was he used.

[tkarper14]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Oh. Ok. And are you going to pay current installer charge rate of about $120/hr for them to make nice pretty holes that are not visible once the component is installed? Up the price of the RV by $1,000 for nice, pretty perfectly rectangular or circular holes that you will never see unless you remove a component? I would rather keep that extra $1,000 in my pocket rather than paying the manufacture $1,000 for nice pretty square holes that are invisible behind the installed components.

It's got nothing to do with pride. It's the bottom line of $$$$. And even my time has worth to it. I will get more value from my time spending it doing something else that I enjoy more rather then making nice rectangular holes behind the outlet cover that nobody is going to see.

Or you pay a contractor to do it for you. He can charge you for 1/2 hour at $60 to put the outlet in using the rough cut hole behind it, or he can charge you 1 hour at $120 to cut a nice, measured and finished rectangular hole. You are going to pay for the "pride" one way or another.

And if someone looks at my CPAP outlet and says, Wow, you did a really nice job!" I can just lie to them - "You think that is nice, you should see the perfectly measured rectangular hole I cut behind it!" and they will never know the difference.

Now, the hole in picture #24. It only needed to be large enough for thermostat wires to come through. But, the wiring was probably in place before they put the wall panel up so instead of making a nice small hole, and poking the thermostat wire through as the wall put up, their standard practice is to just put the wall up, cut the big hole so then they can just reach in and pull the thermostat wire out.

That would be a good option when ordering.

Square sanded holes - add 1%.
Vacuum behind installed panel walls and under the installed drawers - another 1%.

That way, you get what you pay for.

[tkarper14]

Originally Posted by Capacitor

$120 / hr? Is that what trailer manufacturers pay their employees?

That is what YOU pay the manufacturer to pay the employees the wages.

[kenandterry]

Originally Posted by SacRV

Haha..yeap looks familiar. Last week I removed my Dometic HVAC thermostat to install a new Easy RV thermostat. The hole is so big (2" x 3") I couldn't even mount the new unit there. I had to relocate it above the hole. So what am I going to do with the hole? I found a roll of contact paper that appears to match the wood paneling. I'll see how well it goes over the weekend.

Install some switches that do absolutely nothing. That’ll drive the next owners crazy.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by Capacitor

$120 / hr? Is that what trailer manufacturers pay their employees?

No. The employee gets paid about $15 / hr probably. There is a huge difference between wages and charge amounts. The charge amount is the amount the company budgets for labor. It pays for vacation days, holiday pay, health insurance, payroll taxes, retirement contribution, etc.

Thus, when the manufacturer includes the cost of labor into the selling price of the RV, it's likely to be in the neighborhood of $120/man-hour of labor. Cutting labor costs by doing such things as only making rough holes behind components is how they keep selling price down. Believe me, the manufacturer is not going to pay the bill for making nice square or rectangle holes that the customer will not see, they are going to pass that cost onto the customer.

And I, for one, have no desire to pay that extra cost.

Now - all the loose plumbing fittings that I had to tighten to stop leaks - that is poor workmanship that really means something.

[rvflyer57]

I'm the type that will tape off the wall, draw out the cut-out, square up, parallel to the ceiling, etc. The outlet will be perfectly level when i'm done. That's just me; a little OCD as to that. On the other hand, if the outlet on the TT is reasonably level and things work when i plug it in, i'm not losing sleep over what's behind the outlet. Now the Furion Camera mount on the back is another matter. It is 1/4" off-level and it drives me crazy every time i look at it. It's coming down in the off-season and getting re-mounted.

[richp]

I camoflauged a badly placed hole that I cut in a wall with a blank plate the size of a switch plate, which was the same color as the other switches in the trailer.

Rich Phillips

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by rvflyer57

I'm the type that will tape off the wall, draw out the cut-out, square up, parallel to the ceiling, etc. The outlet will be perfectly level when i'm done.

My problem is that I could tape off the wall, draw out the cutout, square up, parallel to the ceiling and when I'm done....the outlet will still be off level! And I swear I can't cut a straight line even on a table saw with a fence!

But my CPAP outlet came out just fine, the 7-pin cable and junction box that I replaced came out just fine, replacing the WFCO converter with a Progressive Dynamics came out just fine, the TPMS that I added came out just fine.

And, it does really depend on how you feel about something too. There are people whose time is worth it to make the invisible hole perfect because if they didn't it would bother them. But if it is something that does not affect performance or function in any way, it's not going to bother me, so I am not going to spend my time on it.

[Rick the Rocket]

Originally Posted by Pariah

I'm just wondering what they tool they used to cut out this hole.

Looks pretty good for using a flat spade bit in a drill.

[JJOrion]

The 12 year old son or daughter of the RV tech.

[gw1800]

Originally Posted by R time soon

Most holes for electrical devices are cut out using a 1/4" air pin router. This was obviously done freehand. Receptacle cut outs are often done using a metal template, because if the hole is cut too big then the "wings" won't be able to clamp onto enough panel to hold it secure enough.

May have used a spiral cutter. Looks like a router but the bit is a reverse spiral so all the saw dust goes into the hole, quick and easy. They work great on drywall, not so much on thin plywood.

[tintodd]

There absolutely no pride into today’s workforce it all about building faster. The materials are cheap enough without doing thing like that .(HELP FIX USA BRING BACK SOME PRIDE )I would love to buy my next RV from a company that the workforce cares about what things look like even if we never have to see them.

[tintodd]

If they’re slacking on the hole they might also be slacking on the job they’re doing on your wiring