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Old 11-21-2021, 06:43 PM   #1
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What change would make you consider buying new

I have a 2021 EPro, and if they were to improve the heating and a/c units, that would make me look at a new trailer. Now Winnebago announced an off the grid model that uses a Trama Avesta ac unit. 13k btu, 1/3 the power consumption, can run off the batteries. Plus, itís much quieter !

We like our EPro, but the heat and a/c unit are so loud...

Couldnít consider buying new unit the prices come back down, from the dealers nearby, my model is $8k higher than we paid in June 2020.
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Old 11-21-2021, 09:53 PM   #2
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Other than the possible location, these units have pretty much the same equipment made by Suburban, Coleman, Dometic etc..

My next one will not be a Forest River. The only reason I'm keeping this 2014 is I fianally got all the bugs out of it. But that said, every trip I come back with a list of repairs.
Grand Design seem pretty nice. Jayco seems about on par with FR.?
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Old 11-25-2021, 09:31 PM   #3
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Other than the possible location, these units have pretty much the same equipment made by Suburban, Coleman, Dometic etc..

My next one will not be a Forest River. The only reason I'm keeping this 2014 is I fianally got all the bugs out of it. But that said, every trip I come back with a list of repairs.
Grand Design seem pretty nice. Jayco seems about on par with FR.?


Ha ha ha. We end up fixing something every trip. I have a whole tool kit dedicated to the trailer. Many times when I need to fix stuff at the house, I break into the trailer because it usually has everything to make the repair.

In the trailers defense, we camp off some really tough terrain. Also, one of those repairs was the bathroom door we crushed off its hinges with the slide out in the boonies.
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Old 11-25-2021, 10:37 PM   #4
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Other than the possible location, these units have pretty much the same equipment made by Suburban, Coleman, Dometic etc..

My next one will not be a Forest River. The only reason I'm keeping this 2014 is I fianally got all the bugs out of it. But that said, every trip I come back with a list of repairs.
Grand Design seem pretty nice. Jayco seems about on par with FR.?
I would beg to differ with regard to Grand Design. We bought a 31ft Reflection 5er brand new. The Dometic fridge broke down twice, the water heater broke once, the plumbing lines and one-way valve on the water heater broke/leaked, and one of the two axels had a catastrophic failure. Not counting the minor repairs. By the way, all within the first year of ownership. We were full timing, so leaving it at the Dealership to await repairs under warranty was never an option.

All makes have questionable, at best, quality. Generally speaking, they all use the same components. Care by the line worker probably varies, but since all new units need fixing by the dealer, I'd say that the "care of construction" is uniformly on the poor side overall.

Then too, as mentioned above, it seems to me that all RVs come home from a trip with repairs that need to be made, or the repairs had to be made during the trip in order to continue the trip.

We carry common repair parts and tools that can do most of the "simpler" repairs. It's just part of the joys of RVing.
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Old 11-26-2021, 10:55 AM   #5
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Only with Industry Changes

I would never again consider buying any new RV until the industry decides to care about each unit they produce. Our first RV was another brand, purchased new, and spent more of it's time at the dealer than with us! Our FR3 was a year old and had far fewer issues (bc the original owner had to deal with the quality control warranty problems). We have looked at new vehicles and have been aghast at the poor quality control of RVs that should never have been released from the factory. The fit and finish, alone, was embarrassing. "Volume Sales" appears to be the only thing that with bring a manufacturer to heart felt tears, not satisfaction in producing a product they are proud of by a team of skilled artisans.

I guess there is one positive to buying new- You quickly become adept at fixing your RV to a level of skill you would have never thought possible!
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Old 11-26-2021, 11:34 AM   #6
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I have a Forest River XLR Boost, bought in 2018, before that I had a Forest River Surveyor bought in 2009. Never had a problem with either of them, We live in Canada in the mountains, Been from Sothern California to Alaska and back, across Canada to New York around 10 times. Those are the long trips we are out nearly every week, doing the golf and stays. Only one trailer was ever in a shop for a minor repair.
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Old 11-26-2021, 12:42 PM   #7
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We were fortunate to pick up a used 2014 Wildcat Maxx 282RK from the original buyer. What very few things that needed addressing were covered by the warranty. We're finding it a great fifth wheel for boondocking which is what we prefer over RV parks.

With regards to buying new; ha, you couldn't pay me enough.
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Old 11-26-2021, 03:01 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Mikec557 View Post
I would beg to differ with regard to Grand Design. We bought a 31ft Reflection 5er brand new. The Dometic fridge broke down twice, the water heater broke once, the plumbing lines and one-way valve on the water heater broke/leaked, and one of the two axels had a catastrophic failure. Not counting the minor repairs. By the way, all within the first year of ownership. We were full timing, so leaving it at the Dealership to await repairs under warranty was never an option.

All makes have questionable, at best, quality. Generally speaking, they all use the same components. Care by the line worker probably varies, but since all new units need fixing by the dealer, I'd say that the "care of construction" is uniformly on the poor side overall.

Then too, as mentioned above, it seems to me that all RVs come home from a trip with repairs that need to be made, or the repairs had to be made during the trip in order to continue the trip.

We carry common repair parts and tools that can do most of the "simpler" repairs. It's just part of the joys of RVing.
Well said.
Before buying our current trailer, we looked at a GD. There was a 10' piece of trim laying on the floor that fell off on the way to the dealership.
Luckily, our trailer has been relatively trouble free. Only serious issue we've had happened this year which was a catastrophic bearing failure that luckily happened 20 miles from home at the end of a 3k mile trip and 1 mile from a repair facility. Only took 2 1/2 months to get it fixed.
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Old 11-26-2021, 04:50 PM   #9
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"Volume Sales" appears to be the only thing that with bring a manufacturer to heart felt tears, not satisfaction in producing a product they are proud of by a team of skilled artisans.
How does that pay the bills, unless they can charge enough of a premium for it to offset the additional cost of manufacture? Aren't the same people who complain about quality going to complain about the cost rising 25-30%?

There is a common supply item in my industry whose quality is so poor, it's used as a euphemism for junk. It is sold under dozens of brand names by hundreds of vendors - but there are only two companies in North America who manufacture it. It's actually the same stuff that is installed on the underside of most newer trailers. We use it for a different purpose with tighter tolerances, but it's effectively the same stuff - it's called "fluted polypropylene", and the most common brand name is "Coroplast".

I once had a chance to have a conversation with one of the principal engineers for one of the companies that make it. My first question was "Why can't you make this stuff square?" Followed by, "And why can't you make it the correct size? Every sheet is a different size, and can vary by 1/2 inch or more!"

The engineer replied "We can. We just don't."

As I started getting fired up to blast her, she continued - "This stuff is manufactured in an automated extruding process. In order to make it exactly to size and perfectly square, we would have to improve our temperature control process, and manufacture every piece oversize & then cut to finished size. We figure that those two steps would increase our sales price by 50%. As long as the other manufacturer isn't *also* doing it, we can't afford to."

I think the same is true of the current RV industry. Sure, there will always be "boutique builders" who can produce a small number of ultra high quality rigs, and price them appropriately, and there will always be buyers who will pay for those, the reality is that for mass-market products, Forest river can't price a Grey Wolf 50% higher than a comparable Keystone - and expect to sell very many of them.

It's not ideal, but there's not an easy solution.
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Old 11-26-2021, 06:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Dennis88 View Post
I have a Forest River XLR Boost, bought in 2018, before that I had a Forest River Surveyor bought in 2009. Never had a problem with either of them, We live in Canada in the mountains, Been from Sothern California to Alaska and back, across Canada to New York around 10 times. Those are the long trips we are out nearly every week, doing the golf and stays. Only one trailer was ever in a shop for a minor repair.

Very lucky for you, and not the norm.
Iíve had many, big issues with my mine.
I just donít air it here.
Iíve been her long enough to know who the knowledgeable people are, and when I have a problem I contact them directly.
Those that have no problems are in the minority.
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:35 PM   #11
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Like Too Tall said, finally have bugs worked out, I'm in no rush to 'upgrade'. Besides, I'm reading a about people paying nearly double what I paid in 2018. And the AC noise? White noise, which got much better after installing a soft start on the compressor. Heater does not make much noise at all compared to A/C. And if the off/on noise is bothersome, you can always install the heat strip in the AC unit for about 50 bucks, then it stays on steady as long as you have shore power, fan on low so it is not loud.
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:40 PM   #12
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Those that have no problems are in the minority.
IMHO, the majority has few problems, not the minority.
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Old 11-26-2021, 09:44 PM   #13
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Well, we'll just have to consult the JD Powers customer satisfaction ratings. I wish they had them for RV's.
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Old 11-27-2021, 02:06 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Too Tall View Post
Other than the possible location, these units have pretty much the same equipment made by Suburban, Coleman, Dometic etc..

My next one will not be a Forest River. The only reason I'm keeping this 2014 is I fianally got all the bugs out of it. But that said, every trip I come back with a list of repairs.
Grand Design seem pretty nice. Jayco seems about on par with FR.?
I had two Cardinals. I'm really happy with my Grand Design.
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Old 11-27-2021, 02:08 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by RonIn NC View Post
I would never again consider buying any new RV until the industry decides to care about each unit they produce. Our first RV was another brand, purchased new, and spent more of it's time at the dealer than with us! Our FR3 was a year old and had far fewer issues (bc the original owner had to deal with the quality control warranty problems). We have looked at new vehicles and have been aghast at the poor quality control of RVs that should never have been released from the factory. The fit and finish, alone, was embarrassing. "Volume Sales" appears to be the only thing that with bring a manufacturer to heart felt tears, not satisfaction in producing a product they are proud of by a team of skilled artisans.

I guess there is one positive to buying new- You quickly become adept at fixing your RV to a level of skill you would have never thought possible!
I think buying three years old is about the sweet spot. My first fifth wheel was new but not the three since then. The bugs get worked out by then and the units, if traded by that time, generally weren't used much.
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Old 11-27-2021, 08:53 AM   #16
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IMHO, the majority has few problems, not the minority.

I donít agree.
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Old 11-27-2021, 10:23 AM   #17
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I donít agree.
It depends on what kind of problems you are talking about. If you are talking about major problems in a new RV needing extensive repair by a shop, I believe those are in the minority. If you are talking about annoying small problems that you can usually fix yourself, then that is definitely the majority.
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Old 11-27-2021, 10:26 AM   #18
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Looks like I'm going to have to start a poll! At least find out from the limited sampling of owners who are on the FR forum.
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Old 11-27-2021, 11:45 AM   #19
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Poll has been posted, so we don't hijack the poor OP's thread!
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...rv-243696.html
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Old 11-27-2021, 12:42 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
...
...In order to make it exactly to size and perfectly square, we would have to improve our temperature control process, and manufacture every piece oversize & then cut to finished size. We figure that those two steps would increase our sales price by 50%. As long as the other manufacturer isn't *also* doing it, we can't afford to."

....
I call BS on the price increase of 50%. Extrusion management technology can easily hold ID and OD tolerances of +/- .005", and holding tighter tolerance actually reduces cost due to less material variance. True the extruder might need to be "slowed down" to optimize the process, but in my experience the optimization of process results in lower costs and fewer customer issues.

This company has a poor attitude about process control, and just "pumps the stuff out as fast as they can".
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