Gas heat

[ChrisPBacon]

It’s much like filling your favorite beverage container with ice, then adding your favorite beverage; putting the lid on, and taking your first sip… getting nothing.

Here’s the scoop: plugged into 50 Amp AC service (on), 4:30 in the morning.

Woke up in a 47° trailer: got up, fumbled with the lights, put on my (reading) glasses, selected the mode (gas heating), selecting the zone, setting the temperature… and nothing happened. Rechecked my steps, nada, Nothing happened, even after waiting several minutes.

Put on some clothes, went outside: checked the tanks [both had something in them, selected the one that seemed to have the most quantity; checked that the tanks were both turned on (they were)], selected the tank that seemed to have the most quantity. Checked that the trailer was plugged into and connected to AC service (it was) — have to check with some of the ex-military practical jokers I know that hang around…

Went back inside and went through the switches on the thermostat again and attempted to restart the gas heaters. Nothing. Just for grins, I tried turning on the gas water heater, which displayed a red “FAULT” light.

Checked the circuit breakers (all in) and fuses: reset the breakers for heating and fans. All good. Still, nothing, Perhaps needless to say, we weren’t at a place where there is cell tower or WiFi coverage, so I couldn’t go online… and the copy of the FR Rockwood Signature Owners Manual I downloaded is less than helpful.

On the assumption that there may not be enough propane in the tanks, once home, I drove to my local favorite trailer park that has the cheapest propane in the county: having two 30-pound tanks, it only took 5.3 gallons in total to fill the two tanks… so there was propane in both tanks.

These systems should be somewhat intuitive… but seem to have more steps to get them to start than the P-38 Lightning (19 steps to start the two engines). A 747 is simpler to start.

A good friend came over — and he’s baffled. He told me that trying to figure out the non-starting generator was easier to figure out (unsuccessfully). [Turned out that a circuit failed on the carbon monoxide detector, one that allowed the continuity of the detector to be tested (GTG)… but not the logic board, which failed safe (not allowing the generator to start).]

Anyone else encounter this?

[pilotpip]

I like my little 1500w electric space heater when it's not too cold for this reason.

I don't think the travel trailer companies have figured out FADEC yet.

[ggrimm01]

FWIW

1. Check, light burners once gas is on. If lighted go to step 2.

2. Zone 1 handles has heat. Zone 2 handles strip heat. Set zone 1 to furnace and wait to hear the ignition and the burners to come on. If you try the water heater and faults out. Reset try again.

3. If it does not work, get a cup of coffee and start watching how-to videos. Or call the mobile tech.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by ggrimm01

FWIW

1. Check, light burners once gas is on. If lighted go to step 2.

2. Zone 1 handles has heat. Zone 2 handles strip heat. Set zone 1 to furnace and wait to hear the ignition and the burners to come on. If you try the water heater and faults out. Reset try again.

3. If it does not work, get a cup of coffee and start watching how-to videos. Or call the mobile tech.

Apparently, the gas cylinders provided with the trailer are very touchy, and have their idiosyncrasies.

You.boob has a lot of information out there… not all of it good, or accurate. YMMV.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by pilotpip

FADEC

???

This s lifestyle has just as many acronyms as aviation…

[luvcamping59]

I also have the 2022 Rockwood Signature 8263MBR and had the same issue this past weekend. The gas heat worked great for one night, but I'm pretty sure it was running off the batteries even though we were plugged into 30 AMP. I did not understand why the batteries would die and not be continuously charging while on shore power, and I don't know for sure if the gas heat was running off the batteries or not. The electric heat was worthless, what's up with that?

Our batteries never recharged until we hooked up to our truck to go home.

[Reverse_snowbird]

Originally Posted by luvcamping59

I also have the 2022 Rockwood Signature 8263MBR and had the same issue this past weekend. The gas heat worked great for one night, but I'm pretty sure it was running off the batteries even though we were plugged into 30 AMP. I did not understand why the batteries would die and not be continuously charging while on shore power, and I don't know for sure if the gas heat was running off the batteries or not. The electric heat was worthless, what's up with that?

Our batteries never recharged until we hooked up to our truck to go home.

Welcome to the forum, luvcamping59.

Something is wrong if your batteries are not charging when plugged into 30AMP... unless you have a battery disconnect switch that had the batteries disconnected.
The gas heat has an igniter that works off the batteries. I think it should work off shore power, but don't know for sure.
You probably need someone with knowledge of electrical systems on an rv to check it out.

[GoingNoWhereFast]

I'm also wondering what the outside temperature was? OP said inside was 47deg, If outside was below 30deg the propane might not have vaporized enough to have enough pressure to light. Just thought. I always check my stove and see if there is flame there, and if its cold out side, put on a teakettle and poor it on the tank when it boils, that will warm the LP and push vapor to the furnace. Just plan on doing it every 20-30 mins. if its that cold

[bikendan]

Originally Posted by luvcamping59

I also have the 2022 Rockwood Signature 8263MBR and had the same issue this past weekend. The gas heat worked great for one night, but I'm pretty sure it was running off the batteries even though we were plugged into 30 AMP. I did not understand why the batteries would die and not be continuously charging while on shore power, and I don't know for sure if the gas heat was running off the batteries or not. The electric heat was worthless, what's up with that?

Our batteries never recharged until we hooked up to our truck to go home.

Your trailer has at least 200w of solar panel.
What kind of battery did your dealer install?


Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

[Brandoni]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

Apparently, the gas cylinders provided with the trailer are very touchy, and have their idiosyncrasies.

You.boob has a lot of information out there… not all of it good, or accurate. YMMV.

The step 1 is a good one for propane flow. Light stove and make coffee.
-> If no joy on stove lighting then

The propane hose from the tank to where it's used is a lot of propane volume. When the propane bottle is opened there is a safety spool . . If nothing is attached (or the volume needed to fill the long line is big) the spool will block the outlet. If you listen closely you can hear it set (clink) and release when opening again (small clink). Sometimes a few minutes to release. Worse case disconnect, allow tank to reset safety and then cracking the valve ever so little to stop the spool from setting. (Frustrations plus!!)(I've literally fought with some tanks at work . . sadly they always win. . . .)

Did you change tanks?? In the last few years I've had several that just love to shut off the flow and be painful to use. I'm always happy to see those tanks emptied and returned.
Hope you find the problem and cure this challenge.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by GoingNoWhereFast

I'm also wondering what the outside temperature was? OP said inside was 47deg, If outside was below 30deg the propane might not have vaporized enough to have enough pressure to light. Just thought. I always check my stove and see if there is flame there, and if its cold out side, put on a teakettle and poor it on the tank when it boils, that will warm the LP and push vapor to the furnace. Just plan on doing it every 20-30 mins. if its that cold

Too bad the Forest River trailers don’t have an option of battery and propane tank heaters… perhaps thermostat-limited, but available in cold weather on shore-power, allowing you to keep propane tank pressure and to keep battery performance from tanking (so to speak).

[markcee]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

It’s much like filling your favorite beverage container with ice, then adding your favorite beverage; putting the lid on, and taking your first sip… getting nothing.

Here’s the scoop: plugged into 50 Amp AC service (on), 4:30 in the morning.

Woke up in a 47° trailer: got up, fumbled with the lights, put on my (reading) glasses, selected the mode (gas heating), selecting the zone, setting the temperature… and nothing happened. Rechecked my steps, nada, Nothing happened, even after waiting several minutes.

Put on some clothes, went outside: checked the tanks [both had something in them, selected the one that seemed to have the most quantity; checked that the tanks were both turned on (they were)], selected the tank that seemed to have the most quantity. Checked that the trailer was plugged into and connected to AC service (it was) — have to check with some of the ex-military practical jokers I know that hang around…

Went back inside and went through the switches on the thermostat again and attempted to restart the gas heaters. Nothing. Just for grins, I tried turning on the gas water heater, which displayed a red “FAULT” light.

Checked the circuit breakers (all in) and fuses: reset the breakers for heating and fans. All good. Still, nothing, Perhaps needless to say, we weren’t at a place where there is cell tower or WiFi coverage, so I couldn’t go online… and the copy of the FR Rockwood Signature Owners Manual I downloaded is less than helpful.

On the assumption that there may not be enough propane in the tanks, once home, I drove to my local favorite trailer park that has the cheapest propane in the county: having two 30-pound tanks, it only took 5.3 gallons in total to fill the two tanks… so there was propane in both tanks.

These systems should be somewhat intuitive… but seem to have more steps to get them to start than the P-38 Lightning (19 steps to start the two engines). A 747 is simpler to start.

A good friend came over — and he’s baffled. He told me that trying to figure out the non-starting generator was easier to figure out (unsuccessfully). [Turned out that a circuit failed on the carbon monoxide detector, one that allowed the continuity of the detector to be tested (GTG)… but not the logic board, which failed safe (not allowing the generator to start).]

Anyone else encounter this?

OP states the water heater won't light either (fault light). This would seem to indicate a flow problem with the propane, not an issue with the furnace.

[ChrisPBacon]

Originally Posted by Brandoni

The step 1 is a good one for propane flow. Light stove and make coffee.
-> If no joy on stove lighting then

The propane hose from the tank to where it's used is a lot of propane volume. When the propane bottle is opened there is a safety spool . . If nothing is attached (or the volume needed to fill the long line is big) the spool will block the outlet. If you listen closely you can hear it set (clink) and release when opening again (small clink). Sometimes a few minutes to release. Worse case disconnect, allow tank to reset safety and then cracking the valve ever so little to stop the spool from setting. (Frustrations plus!!)(I've literally fought with some tanks at work . . sadly they always win. . . .)

Did you change tanks?? In the last few years I've had several that just love to shut off the flow and be painful to use. I'm always happy to see those tanks emptied and returned.
Hope you find the problem and cure this challenge.

You hit the nail on the head! Thanks for the info.

Seems the tanks are especially finicky about the rate at which you open them… and, in my ignorance, just cranking them open doesn’t work well. I had my TT in the FR dealer I purchased it from and the service tech showed me that just barely cracking the valves IS the way to go, then opening them slowly.

The “Fault” warning light, I was shown, turns on when the gas water heater is first turned on, then the fault light extinguishes. If in doubt about the water heater operating, I only have to go outside and hear the air flow and feel the heat from the burner operating, to confirm (1) that gas is in the tank and flowing, and (2) the gas heater should work.

Most FR owners probably know and do this, but, my service tech recommended against drawing propane simultaneously from both tanks connected to the common manifold: he said to use propane from only one tank for all using units (stove, oven, water heater, and gas furnace) so that you know you always have a full tank to use when the first is exhausted.

Question for others: if you’re on an extended stay somewhere, when the first tank is exhausted, do you usually remove it from the trailer and have it filled; replace the tank with a spare; or wait until both tanks are empty (or near empty) to have filled?

I usually haul a 5-gallon tank (or two) in the back of my TV, either for contingencies, or if I’m planning on using a grille (or smoker) overnight. Foolish, perhaps, but I’ve been unexpectedly snowed in when a large weather system changed paths and coated everything with freezing rain for 31 hours, then dropped 39 inches of snow on us… which drifted in high winds and closed the mountain passes.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

Question for others: if you’re on an extended stay somewhere, when the first tank is exhausted, do you usually remove it from the trailer and have it filled; replace the tank with a spare; or wait until both tanks are empty (or near empty) to have filled?

Seems like you had to learn the hard way about opening tank valves slowly. The old tanks (Prest-O-Lite left-hand-thread valves, no Acme threads) didn't have this issue. Something the safety dudes slipped in on us.

Another trick. Always light the range first and wait until you have solid flame before turning the range off and attempting to light the water heater or furnace. My experience has been that somehow, all the gas in the piping downstream of the regulator is gone in a week if the tanks are shut off, and you have to purge the air.

How many tanks? Many. Easy to get 20 lb. tanks from people who are dumping rusty gas grills. Swap them at Walmart or Lowes if out-of-date. Then do refills at Costco where it's cheaper. Our Cherokee 38P is permanently sited. At the site are five 30 lb. cylinders for the trailer and two or three 20 lb. cylinders for the gas grill, either stored under extra shrouds or under the trailer.

[5picker]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

You hit the nail on the head! Thanks for the info.

Seems the tanks are especially finicky about the rate at which you open them… and, in my ignorance, just cranking them open doesn’t work well. I had my TT in the FR dealer I purchased it from and the service tech showed me that just barely cracking the valves IS the way to go, then opening them slowly. This is correct, open S L O W L Y!

The “Fault” warning light, I was shown, turns on when the gas water heater is first turned on, then the fault light extinguishes. If in doubt about the water heater operating, I only have to go outside and hear the air flow and feel the heat from the burner operating, to confirm (1) that gas is in the tank and flowing, and (2) the gas heater should work. The FLT (fault) light is there to tell you the status of the water heater. As mentioned, when you turn the LP water heater switch on, the FLT light comes on, then goes out to tell you the flame has ignited. If during use, the FLT light comes back on, that indicates the flame did not re-ignite for some reason. It's an alert indication to let you know you need to investigate.

Most FR owners probably know and do this, but, my service tech recommended against drawing propane simultaneously from both tanks connected to the common manifold: he said to use propane from only one tank for all using units (stove, oven, water heater, and gas furnace) so that you know you always have a full tank to use when the first is exhausted.
Not sure where your service tech got their information but on all R/Vs I've seen over the last 40 years or so DO NOT draw off both tanks at the same time if both valves are open on the tanks. The regulator is a cross-over type regulator that draws from one tank until empty THEN switches to the other tank. There is an indicator on the regulator to let you know the tank has emptied and has switched to the other tank. Learn how the switch-over regulator works and you'll never run out of LP and not have to get up in the middle of the night to open the other tank valve at 3:00 AM when it's freezing cold out and the furnace quit!

Question for others: if you’re on an extended stay somewhere, when the first tank is exhausted, do you usually remove it from the trailer and have it filled; replace the tank with a spare; or wait until both tanks are empty (or near empty) to have filled? Once my tank switches and the cross-over indicator tells me one tank is empty, I remove the empty and get it filled asap. Again, this requires you get in the habit of looking at the regulator's built in indicator on a routine basis.

I usually haul a 5-gallon tank (or two) in the back of my TV, either for contingencies, or if I’m planning on using a grille (or smoker) overnight. Foolish, perhaps, but I’ve been unexpectedly snowed in when a large weather system changed paths and coated everything with freezing rain for 31 hours, then dropped 39 inches of snow on us… which drifted in high winds and closed the mountain passes. Always good to be prepared!

NOTE: Just a word on LP use and cold weather from one of your prior posts... unless you had your LP tanks filled with an excessive butane blend, (often done in the southern states) the tanks should easily produce sufficient vapor boil for use down to about -40ºF. No heating or warming of the tank is necessary.

[luvcamping59]

In my case, it was no colder than the high 40s.

[luvcamping59]

Originally Posted by bikendan

Your trailer has at least 200w of solar panel.
What kind of battery did your dealer install?


Sent from my SM-G781U using Forest River Forums mobile app

We do have the solar and it usually takes care of battery charging, but we had nothing but clouds and rain this last trip, so it didn't help this time.

[luvcamping59]

Originally Posted by luvcamping59

We do have the solar and it usually takes care of battery charging, but we had nothing but clouds and rain this last trip, so it didn't help this time.

I should have added that we bought after market batteries, they are Lifeline AGM batteries (2 of them) and they will usually last a really long time. We keep them on a trickle charger when not in use.

[pilotpip]

Originally Posted by ChrisPBacon

???

This s lifestyle has just as many acronyms as aviation…

Yes, it does. Off topic, but what cockpit is that? Nice HUD.

[Rhumblefish]

Fault light hints at the issue, but BOTH the furnace and the hwh not firing seals the deal: no gas. So I am in “propane valve opening issue” camp, as well. (Neither am I super impressed with the current regulators with which forest river divisions are shipping, though that’s a marginally related issue).

Open tank(s) slowly (both or one, your call).
Point regulator at your preferred draw tank.
Light a burner on the stove (testing for flow).
Fire up propane appliances (hwh, furnace) as needed.

Hope you managed to get lit, and this addresses the issue.