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Old 08-10-2017, 03:02 PM   #1
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Real life hitch weight Mini Lite 2304KS?

Hi all. My husband and I are interested in getting a Mini Lite 2304KS (or the Micro Lite equiv.) but I'm a little concerned about the hitch weight getting too close our max of 720 lbs. Has anyone with this TT done a real life tongue weighing with a couple batteries and full propane tanks?

The brochure and dealers we've spoken to say the hitch weight is about 575 lbs. but we've gotten mixed info on whether or not that includes propane. The dealers all tell us that we'll be fine but I know they're eager to make a sale.

Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW - our TV is a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 with a 5.7 Hemi and Class IV tow package. Our GVWR is 7200 but we'd like to keep our loaded trailer weight to no more than about 5400. Do you think we're in the ballpark with the KS or should we skip the slide out?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:13 PM   #2
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Per the Rockwood website, the DRY tongue weight is 590 lbs. Dry weights are for suckers; the trailer will never weigh that after it's off the line. Tongue weight is usually 12-15% of TT weight, so unless you've loaded it and weighed it (probably not, since you haven't bought it yet), the conservative thing to do is assume 12-15% of GVWR. The GVWR is 5876 lbs. So YOUR tongue weight could end up being close to 5876 X .15 = 881 lbs, depending on how much stuff you load into it and how you load it. Don't forget to add 75-100 lbs for a weight distribution hitch (WDH) (and you SHOULD have one!). If you've been actually looking at the Mini-Lite, look at the white sticker on the left front. It will give you the GVWR. Here's the one from my Mini-Lite 2503S:
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Open your Jeep's drivers door and look at the payload sticker on the door frame. Here's the one from my Silverado 1500:
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The payload number has to cover the TT's tongue weight, the WDH weight, and the weight of passengers and "stuff" you put in it.

Good luck.
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Old 08-11-2017, 08:46 PM   #3
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Rockfordroo - Thank you! That's exactly what I wanted to know. I didn't trust the published dry hitch weights I've seen and I've been thinking the tongue weight could easily creep up too high. I hadn't considered that it might go quite that high but appreciate you pointing that out.

We'd definitely use a WDH. We're leaning toward the Andersen - primarily because we know some couples who have it and love it, and, very importantly, the wives can hitch it as easily as the husbands due to it's design and lower weight (60lbs.). We want to be sure either of us can completely deal with the trailer in an emergency.

As much as we like that layout, we do know safety must be first - even if dealers are willing to sell us the one with the slide out. This forum gives us a chance to to talk to all of you who have actual experience and that's a huge bonus.

I would still love to hear from anyone who owns the this model and has taken the time to do a full weighing of trailer and tongue weight - if you're out there. I see that recommended in so many places but I'm not sure if many people ever really do that. I've seen a few posts here that mention it, but not very often.

Thank you again for your input. We're scheduled to look at a couple of 2304KS models on Monday but maybe we should rethink this.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:22 PM   #4
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BTW - did I use the term "hitch weight" improperly in my thread title? The Forest River Rockwood and Flagstaff brochures mention " Dry Hitch Weight" but our Jeep uses the term "Tongue Weight". I'm assuming the dry hitch weight is for an unloaded trailer and the tongue weight is with batteries, propane and a loaded trailer. Is that correct?
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:42 PM   #5
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Call me cynical, a 24ft trailer weighing close to 6000 lbs is a "mini lite" nowadays ? It's going to end up with somewhere between 700 and 900 lbs tongue weight, so it's a bit of a stretch with a mid-size SUV like the Grand Cherokee.

Tongue weight and hitch weight are merely different terms describing the same thing, the weight the trailer tongue transfers onto the hitch. Dry hitch weight refers to the fact it's measured with no fluids or cargo etc.. In real life the weight is going to be noticeably higher once the propane tanks are on and the fresh water tank is filled. Plus any cargo you load into the trailer.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:24 PM   #6
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We don't intend to pull anything near 6000 lbs., but I do understand the tongue weight on this model may still be too much. We've tent camped for years and our gear was well under 400 lbs. even on the longest trips. I suppose we could add a 1000 lbs. for 2 people in a trailer but I think we'd have to work at it. We've camped efficiently for years and maybe we'll become more lackadaisical about that with a trailer, but our intention is to keep our trailer more than 20% below the max tow weight for our Jeep.

The dealer told us the GVWR on the 2017 2304KS we're considering was 5672 lbs. That's still below the 20% threshold we want on our Jeep, but we'd have to add around 1200 lbs. of gear even to hit that max trailer number. So - the overall trailer weight probably won't be a problem for us but the tongue weight could be. We're trying to be smart about this and plan ahead. I know that some people push their TV right to the limits but we aren't going to do that.

I appreciate the insight from those in the know.
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Old 08-11-2017, 10:56 PM   #7
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Don't forget about the 43 gallon fresh water tank. That's over 300 lbs right there. If you're not glamping in RV parks with full hookups, and from your tenting background I'd guess you probably prefer small remote campgrounds, you will likely carry a full load of water at least part of the way.

Not saying it can't be done with a GC, just realize you will be pushing the limits here or there.
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Old 08-11-2017, 11:21 PM   #8
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Good call on the water. I guess we have to rethink this - but that's why I asked the question!

Thanks, guys,
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Old 08-12-2017, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wannabeowner View Post
Hi all. My husband and I are interested in getting a Mini Lite 2304KS (or the Micro Lite equiv.) but I'm a little concerned about the hitch weight getting too close our max of 720 lbs. Has anyone with this TT done a real life tongue weighing with a couple batteries and full propane tanks?

The brochure and dealers we've spoken to say the hitch weight is about 575 lbs. but we've gotten mixed info on whether or not that includes propane. The dealers all tell us that we'll be fine but I know they're eager to make a sale.

Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW - our TV is a 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland 4x4 with a 5.7 Hemi and Class IV tow package. Our GVWR is 7200 but we'd like to keep our loaded trailer weight to no more than about 5400. Do you think we're in the ballpark with the KS or should we skip the slide out?

Thanks in advance!
Also, when you say your GC has a GVWR of 7200, I think you really meant it had a towing capacity of 7200. I'm basing this on looking up your GC in the 2013 Trailer Life Towing Guide (attached). Tow rating is not GVWR. Your Jeeps GVWR will be on a sticker somewhere on your GC, either the drivers door frame or somewhere in the engine compartment. Here's the one from my Silverado 2500HD:
Click image for larger version

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Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2013 Tow Guide.pdf (8.25 MB, 33 views)
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:12 PM   #10
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Tongue weight

I have a 2016 2304ks so all of this is for my year. I'm am not sure of the new model specs. My trailer has a DryW of 4160 TW of 623 and a CC of 809 as per FR. The problem for me is not the TW but the CC of 806 which is actually reduced when I engage my WDH by over 100lbs. The problem is the axles which are only rated at 2200lbs. each. For the life of me I can't understand that they make a trailer that is 4160lbs. and put 2200lbs. axles on it.
Just went thru this yesterday after a long trip back from camping in South Lake Tahoe. I went thru 3 different ODOT truck scales on the way home that were closed and they all matched for weight when adding for fuel used. The truck scales measure in 50lb. increments so not exactly right on but very close enough for me. By the way, my DW thinks I'm absolutely nuts over this issue.
The problem is I can't get my trailer below 4700lbs. so I'm over by 300lbs. I measured my tongue weight yesterday by the etrailer method and it came out to 910lbs. that's with propane full 112lbs. two 6v batteries 150lbs. 10 gallons of water 83lbs. (tank in front of axles) two bicycles on BEEFED up bike rack on back 118lbs. (which should actually reduce TW) and approx. 526lbs of all gear and yes I did weight it all with out the DWs help. When I engaged the WDH it transferred 150lbs. to the front axle of the truck and 100lbs to the trailer axles so the TW is reduced to 660lbs. The transfer weight was done at the truck scales by disconnecting the WDH.
I've talked to the dealer and he says go for it and the axle mnft. and they say the axles can take more than they are rated but of course they won't say by how much. I got a price to upgrade the axles to 2600lbs. axles which was $1200.00 no labor material only.
Long story short I've always tried to live with in the guide lines so I would have probably moved up to the 2503s or settled for the 2304. I think the weights given by FR leave a lot to be desired. Also so many are worried about tire ratings check your axle mine are supposed to have 1100lbs. on each tire.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:31 PM   #11
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Tongue weight

By the way that 910lb. TW included 72lbs. for WDH.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:49 PM   #12
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The (questionable) logic by the trailer manufacturers goes like this:

Dry weight 4160 lbs
Payload 809 lbs
Combined weight 4969 lbs

Of the 4969 lbs 623 lbs are carried on the tongue. That leaves 4346 lbs on the axles and voila, you are under 2 x 2200 lbs axle load. Obviously the manufacturer conveniently ignores the fact that a WDH will add some weight on the axles, but hey, it's your responsibility to keep everything under the limits.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:03 PM   #13
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This is true I understand where the carrying capacity comes from with TW added in, but I also think something should be added for the weight of the axels tires and rims since the axels don't carry that weight but I could be wrong on that.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:15 PM   #14
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Ah sorry, didn't catch that the 4700 lbs was on the axles when hooked up. That's a bit over but within the safety margins, maybe upgrade the tires though.

Circling back to the OP question, manufacturers are obviously interested to make the numbers look 'light' to attract buyers that don't have full-size trucks at their disposal. Werk's setup is a good example of how TW ends up in real life.

Keep in mind while a WDH shifts some of the weight back to the trailer axles most of it is still carried by the tow vehicle, just moved from back to front. It still counts towards the GVWR, using Werk's numbers as an example that comes out to about 800 lbs of payload on the tow vehicle. That's a sizable chunk out of the payload for a mid-size SUV.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:16 PM   #15
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Tongue weight scale

Our dealer measured ours with a tongue weight scale. With 2 30# tanks, 1 battery and no water, 700#. Close enough too pick the right hitch. 2507s
https://www.amazon.com/Sherline-LM-1...e+weight+scale
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:36 PM   #16
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Wow, Werk! That's what I call call some real life weighing - 3 times on one trip!

Thank you for all of those details, they're really helpful. You confirmed what the others said about the published dry TW being much lower than in actual use. I also understand your concern about the axels and I'm sure we wouldn't have thought of that if you hadn't brought this up.

I don't think I totally understand how a WDH works so maybe you can help me out. I read this on etrailer.com: "A weight distribution system will not change the tongue weight of the trailer. It just maximizes the vehicle and hitches capacities if rated for weight distribution" https://www.etrailer.com/question-78445.html
It sounds from your description that when the WDH distributes the weight to the axles of the TV and trailer it does, effectively, lower the tongue weight. Is that correct?
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:56 PM   #17
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I found this towing calculator on the Husky site. How accurate do you all think this is?

http://www.huskytow.com/towing-calculator/
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:58 PM   #18
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Here's a video of how a weight distributing hitch distributes the tongue weight on the TV and the trailer. Actual measurement's with scales under all tires. All that tongue weight is not on the TV's rear axel.
https://youtu.be/XBZu39pQ8Gg
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:12 PM   #19
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minilite2507s - That's a great video, really helpful. Thanks!
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:28 PM   #20
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Minilite that was a great site with video that explains a lot thxs for that. Wannabeowner I'm pretty sure it does because with the WDH it took 250lbs. off my rear axel weight and all the truck fender heights went back to normal,
Don't get me wrong we absolutely love our 2304ks the large bath, kitchen, murphy bed just everything about it is great. We had a couple of minor issues in the beginning but everything has worked out know.
This all started after we bought the trailer and I started reading this form. I started with a 2013 Silverado 1500 and I stop at the weigh station and the truck was 600lbs. over GVWR. We dry camp mostly so had me and DW usually 20 extra gallons water, firewood, generator, lots of tools and all the other stuff. So up grade tires to LTs got air bags which I didn't install and I still didn't feel good about my rig. So my DW said I could buy a new truck if I stopped stopping at the weigh stations. So I upgraded to a 2017 2500HD Denali and I absolutely love it. All's good with the truck weight and I love all the safety features on the new truck. It feels so much safer towing with a heavier truck. I shifted weight out of the trailer into the truck. But I still stop at the weigh stations.
It's a great thing your doing your homework before you buy the trailer I only wish I had.
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