Side camera on 2018 2902ws

[timbob55]

I attempted wiring 2 Furrion side observation cameras but ran into a problem:

While 12.5 volts are present at the side markers it will not operate my cameras. I attached the cameras directly to the battery and they operate just fine. I believe it to been connected to the fact that the trailer has LED running lights. The Furrion tech I spoke with agreed and suggested I call Forest River.

Has anyone else experienced this an d is there a solution?

Tim

[Anderson15]

Originally Posted by timbob55

I attempted wiring 2 Furrion side observation cameras but ran into a problem:

While 12.5 volts are present at the side markers it will not operate my cameras. I attached the cameras directly to the battery and they operate just fine. I believe it to been connected to the fact that the trailer has LED running lights. The Furrion tech I spoke with agreed and suggested I call Forest River.

Has anyone else experienced this an d is there a solution?

Tim

My trailer has LED lights and the camera works fine.

The 12V coming to the lights is the same 12V, LED or not.

Did you figure it out?

[rockfordroo]

You're not doing something right.

[timbob55]

Originally Posted by Anderson15

My trailer has LED lights and the camera works fine.



The 12V coming to the lights is the same 12V, LED or not.



Did you figure it out?

Nope, I've rewired using butt connectors and the good old fashioned twisted wire with electrical tape with no joy. When I connect them directly to the battery they work. I've left messages with Forest River and am still waiting for a return call.

[Anderson15]

Did you have the tow vehicle connected and the running lights on?

[jtatum65]

You must have power going to the marker lights for the camera to power on. you can do this by connecting the umbilical cord to your TV or you can short pins 1 and 7 on the umbilical cord with a 10amp fuse. See youtube video in link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie1wDjQK9FA

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by Anderson15

My trailer has LED lights and the camera works fine.

The 12V coming to the lights is the same 12V, LED or not.

Did you figure it out?

He may be doing everything right. There's no reason why LEDs have to run on 12 VDC except for those used as replacements.

For more than five years, automotive tail lights are run at pulsed 12VDC at 50% duty cycle--a square wave with 50%on, 50% off. When the driver steps on the brake, they go to 100% duty cycle. One set of LEDs doing the job of two. The on-off rate is fast enough that the eye perceives it as continuously on, although if you glance at it from the corner of your eye, you will see a series of spaced-apart images.

If I had the OPs issue, I would grab my oscilloscope and sample the voltage. If it weren't handy, I would set my multimeter on AC (not DC) and see what voltage was present.

An acquaintance was hooking up a utility trailer to his small VW wagon with the old-style 4-pin connector and found out that he needed to get an adapter.

Just as another thought, I wonder if the voltage is even 12V or 5V. LEDs are really current mode devices. You decide they need 10 mA or 20 mA and regulate the current, not the voltage. The scheme that we amateurs mostly use is to put a resistor in series with the LED to limit the current, wasting most of the power in resistive heat. Given the growing use of CAN bus-style electronics, I wonder if there's a current regulator chip at each lamp. A 'scope or voltmeter will tell the tale.

Or a simpler answer could be that the camera was wired in reverse polarity.

Larry

[timbob55]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

He may be doing everything right. There's no reason why LEDs have to run on 12 VDC except for those used as replacements.



For more than five years, automotive tail lights are run at pulsed 12VDC at 50% duty cycle--a square wave with 50%on, 50% off. When the driver steps on the brake, they go to 100% duty cycle. One set of LEDs doing the job of two. The on-off rate is fast enough that the eye perceives it as continuously on, although if you glance at it from the corner of your eye, you will see a series of spaced-apart images.



If I had the OPs issue, I would grab my oscilloscope and sample the voltage. If it weren't handy, I would set my multimeter on AC (not DC) and see what voltage was present.



An acquaintance was hooking up a utility trailer to his small VW wagon with the old-style 4-pin connector and found out that he needed to get an adapter.



Just as another thought, I wonder if the voltage is even 12V or 5V. LEDs are really current mode devices. You decide they need 10 mA or 20 mA and regulate the current, not the voltage. The scheme that we amateurs mostly use is to put a resistor in series with the LED to limit the current, wasting most of the power in resistive heat. Given the growing use of CAN bus-style electronics, I wonder if there's a current regulator chip at each lamp. A 'scope or voltmeter will tell the tale.



Or a simpler answer could be that the camera was wired in reverse polarity.



Larry

Thank you Larry. That's exactly what is going on. A couple of phone calls to Fred at Forest River customer service did the trick.

I found "normal" 12v at the electric stabilizer switch where the cameras operated as they should when connected to it. However that voltage is on all the time. Fred suggested wiring a switch between the stabilizer switch and turn the cameras on manually when we get under way.

I've decided not to pursue the install any further, and reinstall the original marker lights. I have a rear camera pre wired from the factory that works fine. I'll make do.

So that's it. Learned something today!

Tim

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by timbob55

Thank you Larry. That's exactly what is going on. A couple of phone calls to Fred at Forest River customer service did the trick.

I found "normal" 12v at the electric stabilizer switch where the cameras operated as they should when connected to it. However that voltage is on all the time. Fred suggested wiring a switch between the stabilizer switch and turn the cameras on manually when we get under way.

I've decided not to pursue the install any further, and reinstall the original marker lights. I have a rear camera pre wired from the factory that works fine. I'll make do.

So that's it. Learned something today!

Tim

Good choice. Running the cameras with a switch you have to remember to turn on and off would be a disaster. Forget to turn it off when you pull in to camp and you're thinking about setting up--and you have dead batteries when you're ready to move on.

Larry

[Larry-NC]

In case my credibility is in question, here's a sample LED driver that could be used in applications like this.

Larry

[timbob55]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

In case my credibility is in question, here's a sample LED driver that could be used in applications like this.



Larry

Oh I don't doubt you. I just think it off that the factory decided to go that route. Thanks again

[rockfordroo]

Originally Posted by Larry-NC

He may be doing everything right. There's no reason why LEDs have to run on 12 VDC except for those used as replacements.

For more than five years, automotive tail lights are run at pulsed 12VDC at 50% duty cycle--a square wave with 50%on, 50% off. When the driver steps on the brake, they go to 100% duty cycle. One set of LEDs doing the job of two. The on-off rate is fast enough that the eye perceives it as continuously on, although if you glance at it from the corner of your eye, you will see a series of spaced-apart images.

If I had the OPs issue, I would grab my oscilloscope and sample the voltage. If it weren't handy, I would set my multimeter on AC (not DC) and see what voltage was present.

An acquaintance was hooking up a utility trailer to his small VW wagon with the old-style 4-pin connector and found out that he needed to get an adapter.

Just as another thought, I wonder if the voltage is even 12V or 5V. LEDs are really current mode devices. You decide they need 10 mA or 20 mA and regulate the current, not the voltage. The scheme that we amateurs mostly use is to put a resistor in series with the LED to limit the current, wasting most of the power in resistive heat. Given the growing use of CAN bus-style electronics, I wonder if there's a current regulator chip at each lamp. A 'scope or voltmeter will tell the tale.

Or a simpler answer could be that the camera was wired in reverse polarity.

Larry

Larry:

Your explanation makes sense for the LED tail/brake lights on the TV.

However, since the TV manufacturer doesn't know if the trailer you're hooking up to it is going to have LEDs or incandescent lights, and since most trailers I'm familiar with do not utilize common tail/brake lights (i.e., the brake and tail lights get a separate signal from the TV), I'm having some trouble with your explanation.

[Larry-NC]

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

Larry:

Your explanation makes sense for the LED tail/brake lights on the TV.

However, since the TV manufacturer doesn't know if the trailer you're hooking up to it is going to have LEDs or incandescent lights, and since most trailers I'm familiar with do not utilize common tail/brake lights (i.e., the brake and tail lights get a separate signal from the TV), I'm having some trouble with your explanation.

Well, you know he was talking about connecting side cameras to side marker lights. I don't remember if this was a TT or an MH. If it were an MH, they could have done something with LEDs. Even if it were a TT, they could have converted the 12v signal at the umbilical to a current-limited source, pulse-width-modulated or otherwise.

Since the OP doesn't seem to have tested himself, just talked with an "expert" at the factory, we may never know.

Larry