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Old 08-12-2022, 04:00 PM   #1
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Talking Forest River Wolf Pup question for ATV hauling

Hey all, Jimbo G here. Never owned even a pop-up camper, usually haul the ATV'S on a trailer and then set up a canvas tent that sleeps 4. Now my neighbor has given me the RV Bug! looking to haul a CanAm 1000 outlander Max XT Limited touring machine in an RV that can sleep 3-4 folks if possible.

The tow vehicle is a 2017 Ford F-150 3.5 EcoBoost that can tow up to 8K or a little more but want to keep the weight down to @5K Lbs as I live in the Rockies and always encounter steep grades and high altitudes.

Been looking at a 2020 Forest River Wolf Pup and for entry-level/first time Enthusiast like myself it might just fit my needs, there is one in town I plan to check out this weekend. the owner never hauled any toys in it but wondering if my Can Am 1000 outlander will fit or not, It's all stock so hoping it will. I know there is an overheard cabinet on the right side (looking at it from the rear) and the overall clearance seems to be roughly 56 inches and I need about 54 to make the ATV fit, so it will be a tight squeeze.

i have a cousin who works at an RV dealer and told me to promise him I would never buy a Forest River RV but this unit in town has me thinking...If I can get it for the right price. ask is 18K but I like it much better at 16K.

thoughts on some of the issues I mentioned above.??

thanks in advance for any thoughts/recommendations!!!
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Old 08-12-2022, 04:14 PM   #2
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It would help if you posted what model number this Wolf Pup is.
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Old 08-12-2022, 04:16 PM   #3
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It would help if you posted what model number this Wolf Pup is.
Newbie Mistake, Model 18RJB
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Old 08-12-2022, 04:39 PM   #4
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Moved thread to the Toyhauler section's Cherokee sub-forum since the OP is asking for model-specific information.
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Old 08-13-2022, 01:18 PM   #5
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Things to think about

Jimbo, a trailer must be loaded so it's tongue-heavy. If it's not, it will start "wagging its tail", swaying all over the road. It can throw your F150 in the ditch, completely out of control. You need to make sure that at least 10% of the total trailer weight is on the tongue. In fact, for a single-axle trailer (18RJB is single-axle, right?), it's better to have 12-15% on the tongue.

A CanAm (reverse-trike, right?) is a pretty heavy beast. Most of it's weight would probably be behind the axle. You would be doing things like loading the water tank (I think it's in front of the axle) to compensate, and that brings the weight up further.

Have you looked up the weight capacity of the toyroom? Can it support the CanAm?

You may need a weight distribution hitch, to move some of the weight from the truck's rear axle to its front axle. Add 100 lbs. for this.

Have you looked at the DOOR STICKER on your F150? It should have a statement like "Weight of occupants and cargo should not exceed XXX lbs." What is that weight? Estimate the weight of the fully-loaded trailer, including CanAm and water and gear. Add 12% of that number to the weight of all the gear and occupants in the truck and the weight distribution hitch. Are you within the sticker limit?
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:24 PM   #6
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Looks like my tongue Weight is 460lbs, the atv is a 2 person canam outlander MAX XT which weighs in at 900 lbs. the seller is throwing in a weight distribution hitch and anti sway bars with trailer (forest river 18RJB) Black Label. the cargo area limit is 1100lbs.

the weight limit of this ford is @ 2000 lbs so with the hitch weight at 450 and the occupants/gear will be well below that 2000 lb limit, the truck can comfortable tow over 8K lbs, the trailer GVWR is 5000lbs, so the trailer weighs @ 3400, add the 4 wheeler at 900lbs plus water etc should be @ 4600lbs.

I did learn the trailer has trailer brakes and so will have to setup the ford for trailer package electrical hookup as it did not come with one, its an XLT so pretty basic setup. State of colorado requires trailer brakes to be working on loads for RV's.
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:35 PM   #7
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Looks like my tongue Weight is 460lbs, the atv is a 2 person canam outlander MAX XT which weighs in at 900 lbs. the seller is throwing in a weight distribution hitch and anti sway bars with trailer (forest river 18RJB) Black Label. the cargo area limit is 1100lbs.



the weight limit of this ford is @ 2000 lbs so with the hitch weight at 450 and the occupants/gear will be well below that 2000 lb limit, the truck can comfortable tow over 8K lbs, the trailer GVWR is 5000lbs, so the trailer weighs @ 3400, add the 4 wheeler at 900lbs plus water etc should be @ 4600lbs.



I did learn the trailer has trailer brakes and so will have to setup the ford for trailer package electrical hookup as it did not come with one, its an XLT so pretty basic setup. State of colorado requires trailer brakes to be working on loads for RV's.
Payload Capacity numbers rarely are even numbers, especially one like 2000lbs. What does the driver's door yellow Tire and Loading sticker say is your truck's actual payload capacity. It'll say something like "Occupants and cargo should not exceed xxxxlbs". My F150 SCREW 3.5 Ecoboost with Max Tow package has 1828lbs of payload capacity.
Also, you're using the fictional trailer's UVW number of 3400lbs. You need to look at the trailer's actual UVW factory sticker. Virtually no trailer actually weighs the website UVW number when it leaves the factory.
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Old 08-13-2022, 07:23 PM   #8
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here is the yellow sticker requested. the seller has been pulling this rig up and down the rockies with a 2007 F-150, said he hardly knows it's there. Now granted I am going to load this up another 900lbs ( canam atv).

Let me know if you have any further questions. This is the Black label edition so it is a slight upgrade over stock. I will try to get the lable info off the trailer, did not take a picture of that today
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:00 PM   #9
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here is the yellow sticker requested. the seller has been pulling this rig up and down the rockies with a 2007 F-150, said he hardly knows it's there. Now granted I am going to load this up another 900lbs ( canam atv).

Let me know if you have any further questions. This is the Black label edition so it is a slight upgrade over stock. I will try to get the lable info off the trailer, did not take a picture of that today
That's a fantastic payload capacity! Is your F150 one of the HDPP unicorn ones?
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and Zoe the Wonder Dog(R.I.P.)
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4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:07 PM   #10
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That's a fantastic payload capacity! Is your F150 one of the HDPP unicorn ones?
Not sure what you mean by HDPP? Itís a 2017 XLT 3.5 eco boost. I have it chipped as well so got a 91 octane tune performance and a 91 octane tow tune as well as an E50 tune.

How do find out if itís a HDPP VERSION?
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Old 08-13-2022, 09:42 PM   #11
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Not sure what you mean by HDPP? Itís a 2017 XLT 3.5 eco boost. I have it chipped as well so got a 91 octane tune performance and a 91 octane tow tune as well as an E50 tune.



How do find out if itís a HDPP VERSION?
HDPP is the optional Heavy Duty Payload package for the F150. It automatically includes the Max Tow package. It gives you a higher payload capacity than non-HDPP F150s.
It would be listed on the window sticker. If you don't have it, you can look it up with the VIN.
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4pt Equal-i-zer WDH and 1828lbs of payload capacity
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:25 AM   #12
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Not HDPP?

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HDPP is the optional Heavy Duty Payload package for the F150. It automatically includes the Max Tow package. It gives you a higher payload capacity than non-HDPP F150s.
It would be listed on the window sticker. If you don't have it, you can look it up with the VIN.
Dan, the OP has said the truck does not have a trailer brake controller. If it were HDPP, wouldn't it have a trailer brake controller?
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:26 PM   #13
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HDPP is the optional Heavy Duty Payload package for the F150. It automatically includes the Max Tow package. It gives you a higher payload capacity than non-HDPP F150s.
It would be listed on the window sticker. If you don't have it, you can look it up with the VIN.
Based on the door sticker and vin code it looks like I do not have the HDPP option, the dealer looked up my vin on friday cause I called about towing after your initial comments and he said I have a trans oil cooler and 3.73 gears but my vin code is 27 which corresponds to a 3.31 gear ratio. In addition, based on my config I should only have 1545lbs for cargo but my sticker says 2025lbs. could ford have put the wrong sticker on my truck? I bought this from a chevy dealer in denver who bought this truck at auction, turns out it belonged to enterprise rent a car. it came with 17's rims and 265 wide tires. 4x4 supercrew with shortbox and 145 inch WB

Since I purchased the truck in 2018 I installed a new wagner Intercooler, upgraded both front and rear brakes with slotted rotors and new pads, installed the MPT chip for 91 octane and towing tune and then installed Iconics HD offroad suspension lift kit (only 2.5 inch lift) and new uppper control arms to accomodate the new ride height.

with a weight distribution hitch the ford guidelines say I can tow @ 12,000lbs
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:01 PM   #14
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Dan, the OP has said the truck does not have a trailer brake controller. If it were HDPP, wouldn't it have a trailer brake controller?
True, missed that.
Seems odd that it has 2025lbs of payload. Maybe it's a conventional cab F150.
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:24 PM   #15
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True, missed that.
Seems odd that it has 2025lbs of payload. Maybe it's a conventional cab F150.
My config is XL/supercrew/5.5 box with a wheelbase of 145 inches. So no trailer brake no backup camera itís a bare bones X-LARGE trim package
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:30 PM   #16
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Lift kit, tow weight, etc.

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Based on the door sticker and vin code it looks like I do not have the HDPP option, the dealer looked up my vin on friday cause I called about towing after your initial comments and he said I have a trans oil cooler and 3.73 gears but my vin code is 27 which corresponds to a 3.31 gear ratio. In addition, based on my config I should only have 1545lbs for cargo but my sticker says 2025lbs. could ford have put the wrong sticker on my truck? I bought this from a chevy dealer in denver who bought this truck at auction, turns out it belonged to enterprise rent a car. it came with 17's rims and 265 wide tires. 4x4 supercrew with shortbox and 145 inch WB

Since I purchased the truck in 2018 I installed a new wagner Intercooler, upgraded both front and rear brakes with slotted rotors and new pads, installed the MPT chip for 91 octane and towing tune and then installed Iconics HD offroad suspension lift kit (only 2.5 inch lift) and new uppper control arms to accomodate the new ride height.

with a weight distribution hitch the ford guidelines say I can tow @ 12,000lbs
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Originally Posted by ulysses View Post
Based on the door sticker and vin code it looks like I do not have the HDPP option, the dealer looked up my vin on friday cause I called about towing after your initial comments and he said I have a trans oil cooler and 3.73 gears but my vin code is 27 which corresponds to a 3.31 gear ratio. In addition, based on my config I should only have 1545lbs for cargo but my sticker says 2025lbs. could ford have put the wrong sticker on my truck? I bought this from a chevy dealer in denver who bought this truck at auction, turns out it belonged to enterprise rent a car. it came with 17's rims and 265 wide tires. 4x4 supercrew with shortbox and 145 inch WB
I'm wondering...could you possibly have a rebuilt with parts from multiple vehicle? Or maybe just misinformed by the seller.

The 3.31 gear ratio will make a difference in the mountains, but with all of the "speeds" in the transmission, you should be okay. Have you considered going to one of those websites where you enter the VIN and they list ALL of the options. Maybe the parts counter at a Ford dealer can explain the sticker variance.

Enterprise usually sells their vehicles directly. I wonder if they had a good reason to sell this one at open auction (wreck rebuild?). Do you have the CarFAX on it?

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Originally Posted by ulysses View Post
Since I purchased the truck in 2018 I installed a new wagner Intercooler, upgraded both front and rear brakes with slotted rotors and new pads, installed the MPT chip for 91 octane and towing tune and then installed Iconics HD offroad suspension lift kit (only 2.5 inch lift) and new upper control arms to accommodate the new ride height.
If you installed the lift kit, there's a good chance that the hitch will be too high to tow the trailer level. Towing front-high, especially with a single-axle trailer removes tongue weight and adds weight behind the axle, a recipe for sway. The good news is that (if you saved the parts), you can take the rear lift kit off in an hour or two. The front will be a bigger deal.

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with a weight distribution hitch the ford guidelines say I can tow @ 12,000lbs
This is not a useful piece of information for your travel trailer. The statement means that the vehicle (3.73 or 3.31 rear end?) can pull a 12 Klbs. flat-bed trailer loaded with steel or concrete, with cross-section smaller than the truck. It does not account for the frontal area of a trailer at 60 mph. (You realize that the frontal-area drag increases as the square of the speed, right?)

First step is to get confirmation on the cargo (sticker) load weight. That will inform a lot of things including the max hitch weight and max tongue weight.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:14 PM   #17
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Towing is not the only question

Almost every post asks the question "can I tow a bla bla with a such and such?"

One thing often not considered or asked is "can I stop a bla bla with such and such?"

I've seen more than one tow vehicle followed by a TT slide into or through an intersection with tires smoking. After that event, as my British friend might say about the driver; "the lad likely will need laundry service for his trousers".

The numbers are there for a reason. Believe them and trust them. Otherwise one becomes a very underpaid test pilot.

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Old 08-18-2022, 08:30 PM   #18
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Can am question

You may not be able to load the can am into the toy hauler your looking at. We have a Grey Wolf 22rr and looked at buying a can am spider last year. Usually we haul a BMW bike, but wanted something a little easier to load (bikes heavy and not brave enough to ride it up). Because of the length of the can am's wheelbase the bottom sat low enough so it wouldn't go over the angle where the ramp and floor meet. Tried using some 6 foot Race Ramps and that didn't work either. Gave up and bought a Honda ADV 150 scooter which I can load without any help and don't even need the ramps usually. Sorry to add more confusion, but suggest you take the can am and see if it will load ok.
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Old 08-18-2022, 11:51 PM   #19
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You may not be able to load the can am into the toy hauler your looking at. We have a Grey Wolf 22rr and looked at buying a can am spider last year. Usually we haul a BMW bike, but wanted something a little easier to load (bikes heavy and not brave enough to ride it up). Because of the length of the can am's wheelbase the bottom sat low enough so it wouldn't go over the angle where the ramp
This is what I am hauling. Probably not what you pictured.
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Old 08-19-2022, 03:17 AM   #20
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You've still got a ways to go to know if your 4 wheel ATV will even fit inside the garage, but regarding some of the other stuff mentioned...

The VIN encodes very little useful info beyond chassis and engine unless you have access to factory data based on the serial number in the last digits of the VIN. The window sticker (which can sometimes be looked up from the VIN) is more immediately useful.

The 27 is not part of the VIN. The axle ratio code is located on the "other" door jam label called the "Truck Safety Compliance Certification Label". My 2017 F150 label looks like the pic below. A 27 would indeed indicate a 3.31 with a non-limited slip. A decoder for this label can be found on page 37 of Ford's 2017 RV Tow Guide. My "L6" axle code indicates a 3.73 but it also includes the electronic locking differential.

The Ford configuration for their F150 trailer tow packages is quite confusing. The basic package is called 53B which only includes the receiver and electrical harness plug (plus software for Tow/Haul Mode & Anti-Sway).
The 53A package adds in the transmission cooler, upgraded front stabilizer bar. & Backup Assist (if you have a backup camera).
The 53C (sometimes called Max Tow package) adds in upgraded rear axle, upgraded rear bumper, a 36 gallon fuel tank (instead of 23 gal standard) & a brake controller.

Notes:
1) The 53A and 53B bumpers are only rated at 500 pounds without WDH and 1100 (or 1200?) with WDH.
2) The max trailer weights published by Ford push the limits to just allowing for a maximum 10% tongue weight.

When I realized I didn't have a brake control I kept (relentlessly) shaming my Ford dealer. My favorite line was reminding them they sold me a truck capable of towing a 10,500 trailer except do to so I would be breaking the law in virtually every State (except KY maybe?) by NOT having a brake control system. Therefore they did not meet their own spec. The owner of the dealership once told me he didn't sell me a truck with no brake controller, Ford did. Eventually a sympathetic service and parts department sold me a controller at a bit of a discount and installed it free during an oil change. Very little to install one assuming you can reprogram the system.
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