CA Class C, B, and A licenses for Motorhomes

[NewToTheForce]

Straight from the CA DMV site:

With a Basic Class C license:
-A 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less.
-A 3-axle vehicle weighing 6,000 lbs. gross or less.
-A motorized scooter.
-Any housecar 40’ or less.

I read this as, a Class C allows ANY (regardless of GVWR) motorhome under 40'. I spoke with the DMV, but they didn't know off the top of their head and ended up bringing in a "specialist" who ended up confirming it's ANY motorhome under 40' (regardless of GVWR). Unfortunately, the conversation didn't inspire much confidence in the answer they gave. My wife spoke with some RV dealers, who said you need the upgraded Class B if it's over the 26,000 GVWR.

Does anyone know for certain, one way or the other?

[GrandpaPaul]

Thanks for throwing this question out to us, gets the grey cells working!

Not sure of the exact answer, but I worked for Caltrans for many years and we found that whenever we had a question like this the CHP were a much better source of information, especially their commercial carrier unit. After all, they are the ones who write the tickets, and they really hate to get anything wrong so they don't shot from the hip!!

Please let us know what you find out, we all appreciate answers to these questions even if we don't have the same rig. Who knows, we might be asking the same question someday.

[NavyLCDR]

Is there some reason you did not believe what was in the CA Driver Handbook for the official answer - other than some RV dealer seemed to know more than the California DMV? (it's on page 9)

I don't think it gets much more official than this:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...cense-classes/

Quote:
Class C DL –
You may drive a:
- Housecar 40 feet or less.


With a vehicle weighing 4,000 lbs. or more unladen, you may tow a:
- Trailer coach or fifth-wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation.
- Fifth-wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but under 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not for compensation, and with endorsement.

Personally, though....I would go with the RV dealer told your wife....not!

And if you want to know the CA definition of "housecar":
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...les/housecars/

Quote: 13.065 Housecars (CVC §362)
A housecar is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached.

Motorhomes, pickups with a camper attached, and van campers are housecars for registration purposes.
Truck tractors with living quarters and horse trailers with an area equipped for human habitation are not housecars and cannot be registered as such.

[D W]

"Housecar" !?! Leave it to California to use a term from the 1920's & 30's.

[bikendan]

Moved to the General Motorhome Discussion section.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by D W

"Housecar" !?! Leave it to California to use a term from the 1920's & 30's.

Awesome movie!

[NewToTheForce]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Is there some reason you did not believe what was in the CA Driver Handbook for the official answer - other than some RV dealer seemed to know more than the California DMV? (it's on page 9)

I don't think it gets much more official than this:
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...cense-classes/

Quote:
Class C DL –
You may drive a:
- Housecar 40 feet or less.


With a vehicle weighing 4,000 lbs. or more unladen, you may tow a:
- Trailer coach or fifth-wheel travel trailer under 10,000 lbs. GVWR when towing is not for compensation.
- Fifth-wheel travel trailer exceeding 10,000 lbs. but under 15,000 lbs. GVWR, when towing is not for compensation, and with endorsement.

Personally, though....I would go with the RV dealer told your wife....not!

And if you want to know the CA definition of "housecar":
https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/handbo...les/housecars/

Quote: 13.065 Housecars (CVC §362)
A housecar is a motor vehicle originally designed, or permanently altered, and equipped for human habitation, or to which a camper has been permanently attached.

Motorhomes, pickups with a camper attached, and van campers are housecars for registration purposes.
Truck tractors with living quarters and horse trailers with an area equipped for human habitation are not housecars and cannot be registered as such.

As I stated, I think a Class C covers all motorhomes/housecars 40' or less, regardless of GVWR. What I don't like to see is bullet #1 "A 2-axle vehicle with a GVWR of 26,000 lbs. or less." They don't word this as all encompassing, but also don't apply restrictions. That added to what the dealers have said. We are new to RV'ing so we are trying to make sure we understand and are in compliance.

Adding to the above, I've spoken with the DMV 3 times now, and have received 3 different answers. I have a message with the commercial vehicle section of the California Highway Patrol, so waiting on their response, which is the one we will be going with.

BTW, the DMV responses...
1) All motorhomes 40' and less fall under a class c.
2) Any motorhome over the 26,000 GVWR requires no less than a CDL B
3) Any motorhome over the 26,000 GVWR requires a non-commercial B

[NavyLCDR]

Well, then why don't we go to the exact California Vehicle Code and see what it says? How many interpretations of the part bolded below can there be?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...onNum=12804.10.

ARTICLE 3. Issuance and Renewal of Licenses [12800 - 12819] ( Article 3 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

12804.10.
(a) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, a person issued a class C license under paragraph (3) of subdivision (b) of Section 12804.9 may drive any house car of 40 feet in length or less without obtaining a noncommercial class B driver’s license with house car endorsement as described in subdivision (b).

(b) Any person seeking to drive any house car over 40 feet in length, excluding safety devices and safety bumpers, shall obtain a noncommercial class B driver’s license with house car endorsement as described in this subdivision. The applicant for that endorsement shall pass a specialized written examination and demonstrate the ability to exercise ordinary and reasonable control in operating that vehicle by driving it under the supervision of an examining officer. Upon satisfactory completion of the examination and demonstration, the applicant shall be issued a noncommercial class B driver’s license with house car endorsement by the department. Upon application for an endorsement to operate this vehicle, and every two years thereafter, the applicant shall submit medical information on a form approved by the department.

(Added by Stats. 2001, Ch. 658, Sec. 3. Effective October 10, 2001.)

[NavyLCDR]

If you still don't feel comfortable with that, then go for your Class B license. More power to you!

[NewToTheForce]

Okay, so straight from the CHP. Motorhomes/Housecars are not governed by GVWR, they are governed by length only.

Class C license is good to 40', regardless of GVWR.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by NewToTheForce

Okay, so straight from the CHP. Motorhomes/Housecars are not governed by GVWR, they are governed by length only.

Class C license is good to 40', regardless of GVWR.

That's good. I'm glad the CHP knows what has already been provided to you from both the official California Motor Vehicle Manual, and the California Vehicle Code. It's all about finding the right person to answer an email or the phone call. Just ignore what is in the official manual and what is in the actual law, as long as the person answering your email or phone call agrees, it's all good.

I'm sorry - I have little patience for desk and phone jockeys that don't provide factual answers but only their opinions. And the absolute last place that you want to ask for legal advice is an RV dealer.

[NewToTheForce]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Well, then why don't we go to the exact California Vehicle Code and see what it says? How many interpretations of the part bolded below can there be?

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...onNum=12804.10.

And there it is, in black and white. Thanks!

[GrandpaPaul]

Originally Posted by NewToTheForce

Okay, so straight from the CHP. Motorhomes/Housecars are not governed by GVWR, they are governed by length only.

Class C license is good to 40', regardless of GVWR.

NewToTheForce, Good Going!!! Working with code books can be both interesting and frustrating. The worst part is that they say one thing and then later on they stick an exemption to that rule in and they aren't linked. That's why it's nice to be able to talk to someone who's an expert in the area and not just someone answering the phone who isn't really knowledgeable on that particular subject. And congratulations on handling this in such a professional manner.

Looking forward to sharing with you again here in the forums! Happy Camping!!

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by NewToTheForce

And there it is, in black and white. Thanks!

The point is, really, when you ask the DMV or the local police or the state highway patrol a question such as this - you are only going to get what the person answering your question THINKS is the correct answer, unless they can point you to an official source where it is given in writing. And then, even that is subject to the judge's interpretation and the skill of your lawyer arguing it.

[jbflag21ds]

Originally Posted by GrandpaPaul

NewToTheForce, Good Going!!! Working with code books can be both interesting and frustrating. The worst part is that they say one thing and then later on they stick an exemption to that rule in and they aren't linked. That's why it's nice to be able to talk to someone who's an expert in the area and not just someone answering the phone who isn't really knowledgeable on that particular subject. And congratulations on handling this in such a professional manner.

Looking forward to sharing with you again here in the forums! Happy Camping!!

The "notwithstanding" part of the law quoted above is the critical part. Otherwise the GVWR would matter based on your number of axles.

[NewToTheForce]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

If you still don't feel comfortable with that, then go for your Class B license. More power to you!

The point of me going to the DMV and CHP is to know for sure I can avoid getting, my non-commercial class b or commercial license. I understand I didn't take the route you obviously would/did (which I appreciate), but the goal was to be in compliance and hopefully not have to go beyond my class c.

[NavyLCDR]

Originally Posted by jbflag21ds

The "notwithstanding" part of the law quoted above is the critical part. Otherwise the GVWR would matter based on your number of axles.

Ok, we'll go with that argument. Again, referencing the CA Vehicle Code, this time section 12804.9:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f....3&lawCode=VEH

ARTICLE 3. Issuance and Renewal of Licenses [12800 - 12819] ( Article 3 enacted by Stats. 1959, Ch. 3. )

12804.9.
(b) In accordance with the following classifications, an applicant for a driver’s license shall be required to submit to an examination appropriate to the type of motor vehicle or combination of vehicles the applicant desires a license to drive:
...
(2) Class B includes the following:
...
(F) A house car over 40 feet in length, excluding safety devices and safety bumpers.
...
(3) Class C includes the following:
...
(C) A house car of 40 feet in length or less.

There is a literal, clear statement, with no "notwithstanding" clause. If I am operating a house car of 40 feet in length or less, it is included in Class C, period.

[NewToTheForce]

Just some additional info (attached)...

[NewToTheForce]

Originally Posted by GrandpaPaul

NewToTheForce, Good Going!!! Working with code books can be both interesting and frustrating. The worst part is that they say one thing and then later on they stick an exemption to that rule in and they aren't linked. That's why it's nice to be able to talk to someone who's an expert in the area and not just someone answering the phone who isn't really knowledgeable on that particular subject. And congratulations on handling this in such a professional manner.

Looking forward to sharing with you again here in the forums! Happy Camping!!

Thank you, and you as well!

[jbflag21ds]

Originally Posted by NavyLCDR

Ok, we'll go with that argument. Again, referencing the CA Vehicle Code, this time section 12804.9:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f....3&lawCode=VEH



There is a literal, clear statement, with no "notwithstanding" clause. If I am operating a house car of 40 feet in length or less, it is included in Class C, period.

I was not arguing with you. The notwithstanding language in ".10" essentially preempts the GVWR limitations in ".09".

Section ".09" does not contain any OR statements or language that would otherwise indicate that (b)(3) are not exclusive so ".09" says nothing over 26k with 2 axles, housecar or not. ".10" overrides that.