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Old 11-29-2020, 11:36 AM   #81
NXR
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Originally Posted by dmctlc View Post
Perhaps I wasn't clear enough or misunderstood, I don't mean not to note everything that's wrong. What I meant is and as previously mentioned you send a lengthy letter I doubt the mfg. customer service person reading it will lose interest in it. Like also mention think of not one customer letter like that but many and the purpose will be lost. They say the proper size should be no more than 500 words or one page for a compliant letter. IMHO I'd be surprised if anything more than that gets completely read and you'd be kidding yourself if you think so, as well.. Things to include need to clear and concise. ...
State exactly what is wrong. ...
Don't write an angry, sarcastic, or threatening letter. ...
Include copies of relevant documents, like receipts, work orders, and warranties in chronological order so as to show time elapsed... and though it sounds simple don't forget to include your name and contact information.
OK, we absolutely agree. When I had my 98 pages of write-ups during the warranty period, a single item sometimes took more than one page and it usually was the annotated pictures that increased the length and/or the step-by-step directions on how to replicate that issue.

I separated every issue into its own section with its own title so there could be no confusion about where one issue ended and another began.

What I tried to do was to make it very easy for the service writer to simply copy and paste from my doc into their ticketing system. Of course, one service writer still chose to abbreviate the heck out of what I wrote and not pass along any of the pictures to the technicians.

So from then on I printed out a copy of my doc and left it on the passenger seat for the techs to actually see. That seemed to help, after me and the service manager had a "discussion" about why his service writer was not passing along exactly what I wrote...

Ray
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Old 11-29-2020, 01:35 PM   #82
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I am still in the learning process about the RV world.

If the "higher end" Rigs use many of the same components (plumbing, electrical, etc) as the less costly models, and the work force is the same for both price points, does buying a much cheaper unit make more sense if you are going to have build and system issues down the road no matter which one you choose?

I realize this is a very open ended question, and the answer will vary depending on numerous factors, so just flying at the 30K ft. level I am curious to hear what others think.

For example, someone just posted a link to the 2021 FOREST RIVER GEORGETOWN 5 SERIES GT5 34H5 which lists for about $150K. Its gas, not diesel, and it won't have some of the same bells and whistles as the $350K + Rig, but if you are going to be dealing with things breaking and subsequent repairs for the life of the RV (for either price point), it seems like the less expensive Rig is a better long term investment on some levels?
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Old 11-29-2020, 02:29 PM   #83
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I am still in the learning process about the RV world.

If the "higher end" Rigs use many of the same components (plumbing, electrical, etc) as the less costly models, and the work force is the same for both price points, does buying a much cheaper unit make more sense if you are going to have build and system issues down the road no matter which one you choose?

I realize this is a very open ended question, and the answer will vary depending on numerous factors, so just flying at the 30K ft. level I am curious to hear what others think.

For example, someone just posted a link to the 2021 FOREST RIVER GEORGETOWN 5 SERIES GT5 34H5 which lists for about $150K. Its gas, not diesel, and it won't have some of the same bells and whistles as the $350K + Rig, but if you are going to be dealing with things breaking and subsequent repairs for the life of the RV, it seems like the less expensive Rig is a better long term investment on some levels?

Huge difference between a gas and a Diesel pusher. The engine alone could be $30K more considering it has a transaxle instead of the standard transmission in the gas. The gas use a factory built chassis from one of the automakers(depending on brand of course, not referring to in house built chassis), where the Diesel pushers have the powerplant in the rear of the unit on a custom chassis. That alone could account for a $50K difference between similar models.

Here is what I discovered different between lower cost and higher cost models of the same floor plan. Wall materials, lower use a laminated fiberglass attached to the metal frame and ~2" thickness, with a gel coat finish. Higher end models use a non laminate outer skin that is not prone delamination like the lower end models, which is attached to the metal frame, but the wall thickness is at least 3", more room for insulation, and stronger, more resistant to the Hurriquakes. The outer skins are also painted with automotive paints, less prone to fading, and stand up better to the environment. In these cases you get what you pay for.

When you compare between gas and diesel, the big difference is the powerplant and chassis. The diesel is a much heavier engine, so requires a much beefier chassis and suspension and tires. If you look at a gas model with say Azdel walls and automotive paint and 3" structures, and there is a Diesel pusher with the same walls, the main difference in cost will be the chassis. I doubt you will find identical models between the two based on how the platform layout is different, the diesel takes up a bit of room in the rear where on the gas all that rear space is open, but wall construction can be identical.

So if you are going to compare between the two, make sure both are built the same from the chassis up. The higher cost between them aside from the Chassis could also be in what furniture is installed, so make sure to compare the brands of furniture too. There are also the hidden items that rarely come to mind such as invertors, generators, and other such items. The higher end may have a larger generator, with more sound insulation around it, or a different brand. It may have larger invertors, or higher end brand installed. It may have a more expensive leveling system, which considering the weight of the diesel is a for certain.

Lets say its comparing 5th wheel trailers. The lower end models like Arctic Wolf use a flat frame, where the higher end models, like the Cardinal, use a drop frame. You get more storage space under the floor, hydraulic levelers, higher quality suspension, better wall construction, better, larger shower enclosure. The Arctic Wolf and Cardinal have a similar model to each other so easy to compare the two. It is roughly a $20K difference in cost as well. Is it worth it? All depends, the Cardinal weighs 3,000 pounds more and is wider, so unless you have a Dually already, you have to consider upgrading the tow vehicle too.

The Cardinal is nicer looking overall, but aside from the heavier frame and more storage space underneath, the only item I actually like over the Arctic Wolf we have is that it has a nicer shower, but at the cost of taking up room in the master bedroom, it moves the washer dryer to the very front, putting more weight over the pin where the weight is moved back a bit in the 3660 by having the W/D next to the shower. There is actually more storage area inside the 3660. Also the cabinets may be a different layout, but identical construction as the 3660. No gains there. The wall construction is identical to each other, 2" thick gel coat fiberglass on aluminum tube frame.


What it comes down to really is the buyer needs to be diligent on what they are buying, just because it costs more, doesn't always mean you get more, or get better.
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Old 11-29-2020, 03:45 PM   #84
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Bhrava,

Thanks for the explanation of the construction materials and the chassis. I am still learning how these are put together, so I can appreciate the higher end models are superior in this area.

I have been around Diesels, Generators, and most of the electrical systems found on RV's, but in the marine world since I was a kid, so I can definitely appreciate where these systems add value, especially diesel vs. gas.

I guess my overall point is the price differential between the higher end units, and the lower price units does not seem justified on some levels.

Again, just my general impressions based on a few visits to RV dealerships this past Summer, and reading comments on this forum.
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:15 PM   #85
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For example, someone just posted a link to the 2021 FOREST RIVER GEORGETOWN 5 SERIES GT5 34H5 which lists for about $150K. Its gas, not diesel, and it won't have some of the same bells and whistles as the $350K + Rig, but if you are going to be dealing with things breaking and subsequent repairs for the life of the RV (for either price point), it seems like the less expensive Rig is a better long term investment on some levels?
It depends on how you're going to use it. As you can see I have a 2020 GT5 34H5. The 2021 3D video was just posted and I did a quick review of the changes I noticed over here: https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ed-221142.html

The two of us spend just under six months in the motorhome and are now at the beginning of our second 4+ month winter trip.

We have two large dogs (Black Lab and Golden Retriever) and we have a full six feet of clear front space in the front living area because of the opposing slides. The dogs can sprawl out as much as they want and we can just walk around them.

The heated/power/massaging recliners are right in front of the TV with the fireplace beneath it. Crank out the recliner, turn on the seat heat and massage function, turn on the fireplace to keep your toesies warm, and life is great!

The 2021 has some great upgrades including the new V8 engine.

I can tell you from personal experience that the Georgetown division senior management does read these forums and answer questions here, when needed. They also have a few factory people doing the same. The factory really does try to do what's right by the customer. The dealer? Maybe not so much...

Do I wish we had a DP? Sure. The underneath storage would be great. Air bags would be great for a better ride. A full wall slide would be great. We have a combo washer/dryer and would love separate units. More towing capacity would be nice but is not needed with our Equinox. I would love to be able to fill up using the truck lanes rather than the gas lanes. I would love 150 gallons of fuel and 8 MPG.

But...what we have is more than good enough. Once you're parked a DP rides the same as a gasser. When we hit our driving limit for a day, usually no more than six hours or 300 miles, we still have about a half-tank of less expensive gas. Oil changes, which I do myself, are far less expensive than on a DP. I had to do about $4K of suspension, handling, and ride upgrades. We drove here in 50 MPH wind gusts and there were no moments when we thought the wind was more than a slight annoyance. Well, perhaps "had to" is too strong a term. Some people with the same unit have done none.

I mean, heck, we lived in this thing for 4+ months straight last year and will do the same this year. A lot of people full-time in far less. We had just a few very minor issues last winter.

Don't let MSRP scare you. If the dealer will not do 20% to 25% off MSRP, keep looking. We got 28% without asking but supplies are a bit tighter now. An equivalent DP would have cost us at least $100K more.

Choosing a good dealer is at least half the battle. Ours is a small single-location family-owned and run company since 1963.

It all depends on what you want in the unit and how handy you are. You already know you'll have issues going in so just deal with them without flipping out. Those, too, shall pass.

Good luck,

Ray
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Old 11-29-2020, 04:21 PM   #86
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Thanks for the explanation of the construction materials and the chassis. I am still learning how these are put together, so I can appreciate the higher end models are superior in this area.
One thing we did was to visit the Georgetown factory while ours was being built (we ordered it for specific options). That allowed us to see several units in various states of construction. I took dozens of pictures while walking around so I would have a future record of how wires were run, how piping was run, how things went together, etc. That has proven valuable in troubleshooting things and just understanding how stuff works.

For example, we ordered the dual pane windows. We've been parked at a couple of places and the other people were complaining about having to wipe moisture and condensation off their windows and walls. We've never had that happen.

Ray
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Old 11-29-2020, 11:18 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by NXR View Post
It depends on how you're going to use it. As you can see I have a 2020 GT5 34H5. The 2021 3D video was just posted and I did a quick review of the changes I noticed over here: https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...ed-221142.html

The two of us spend just under six months in the motorhome and are now at the beginning of our second 4+ month winter trip.

We have two large dogs (Black Lab and Golden Retriever) and we have a full six feet of clear front space in the front living area because of the opposing slides. The dogs can sprawl out as much as they want and we can just walk around them.

The heated/power/massaging recliners are right in front of the TV with the fireplace beneath it. Crank out the recliner, turn on the seat heat and massage function, turn on the fireplace to keep your toesies warm, and life is great!

The 2021 has some great upgrades including the new V8 engine.

I can tell you from personal experience that the Georgetown division senior management does read these forums and answer questions here, when needed. They also have a few factory people doing the same. The factory really does try to do what's right by the customer. The dealer? Maybe not so much...

Do I wish we had a DP? Sure. The underneath storage would be great. Air bags would be great for a better ride. A full wall slide would be great. We have a combo washer/dryer and would love separate units. More towing capacity would be nice but is not needed with our Equinox. I would love to be able to fill up using the truck lanes rather than the gas lanes. I would love 150 gallons of fuel and 8 MPG.

But...what we have is more than good enough. Once you're parked a DP rides the same as a gasser. When we hit our driving limit for a day, usually no more than six hours or 300 miles, we still have about a half-tank of less expensive gas. Oil changes, which I do myself, are far less expensive than on a DP. I had to do about $4K of suspension, handling, and ride upgrades. We drove here in 50 MPH wind gusts and there were no moments when we thought the wind was more than a slight annoyance. Well, perhaps "had to" is too strong a term. Some people with the same unit have done none.

I mean, heck, we lived in this thing for 4+ months straight last year and will do the same this year. A lot of people full-time in far less. We had just a few very minor issues last winter.

Don't let MSRP scare you. If the dealer will not do 20% to 25% off MSRP, keep looking. We got 28% without asking but supplies are a bit tighter now. An equivalent DP would have cost us at least $100K more.

Choosing a good dealer is at least half the battle. Ours is a small single-location family-owned and run company since 1963.

It all depends on what you want in the unit and how handy you are. You already know you'll have issues going in so just deal with them without flipping out. Those, too, shall pass.

Good luck,

Ray
On 9th
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Old 01-04-2021, 08:20 AM   #88
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Interesting post..so true!
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Old 01-04-2021, 09:19 AM   #89
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Interesting post..so true!
Are you saying the post from 11-29-2020, 10:18 PM that says "On 9th" is interesting?
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