RV News RVBusiness 2021 Top 10 RVs of the Year, plus 56 additional debuts and must-see units → ×


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-26-2020, 03:44 PM   #1
Member
 
8022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 30
Title Date?

My RV a sunseeker was completed at the factory in Aug. of 2019. The chassis a Ford F450 was completed in early 2019.
Would this be considered a 2020 model FR sunseeker
Thanks
8022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 03:53 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8022 View Post
My RV a sunseeker was completed at the factory in Aug. of 2019. The chassis a Ford F450 was completed in early 2019.
Would this be considered a 2020 model FR sunseeker
Thanks
I have a similar situation. I have a 2020 Sunseeker, completed July 2019, titled as a 2019, using the VIN of the 2019 chassis.

This document could help explain it:
https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...1&d=1541186060
__________________
2020 Sunseeker 2440DS on 2019 Ford E-450, Trekker cap, Topaz paint
BehindBars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 05:32 PM   #3
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 2,166
The VIN very often is a year earlier than the model year you bought because the RV manufacturers stockpile the chassis's. Your title should reflect the model year you purchased.

I had to have my title issued three times before the DMV got finally it right. In Ohio they needed to do a manual override and change the manufacturer from "Ford" and "2019" to "Forest River" and "2020".

Be persistent and also be certain your insurance company also uses the correct model year. Otherwise your payment in the event of a total loss could be less because they think it's a year older than it is. Yup, had to fight that one, too.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 05:50 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 1,465
The 10th digit of your vin is your model year.
Your 2019 Sunseeker should have a "K".
https://www.decodethevin.com/
__________________
2018 Ram 2500 Tradesman, CTD/CC/SB/4X4/Equalizer WDH
2019 Forest River Surveyor Legend 19BHLE
upflying is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 06:07 PM   #5
...far N Georgia!
 
formerFR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Hiawassee, GA!
Posts: 3,191
some states continue to try to use the 'vehicle' VIN as the 'year model' confirmation of the RV, rather that what the RV MANUFACTURER states as the Year Model, which is the REAL year model, not what the vehicle vin may show - the vehicle can be built many, many months, if not a YEAR before it ever gets to become an 'RV' - 'end build' manufacturers, like Forest River, have the FINAL say as to 'what' the year model is, not the DMV.

(although arguing with the DMV might just give you high blood pressure since trying to get to to 'get it right' can be a daunting battle)
__________________

The Turners...
'14 Thor Palazzo 33.3 compact diesel 110k+miles since '14... US, Alaska, Canada...
AND a '14 Gulfstream Amerlite
AND a '07 ForestRIver Rockwood : )
formerFR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 06:14 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Posts: 204
I had a similar issue with my title and registration on my 2019 Sunseeker. They went strictly by the digit in the VIN, and showed it as a 2018. When I reviewed it , prior to signing, I pointed out the discrepancy. I explained it would make a large difference in value on a re-sale. She went to her supervisor and they looked at all the sales paperwork stating it was a 2019 model, and they used a supervisor over-ride to make it correct.
__________________
2019 Sunseeker 3010DS
160w/9A roof top SOLAR
Playmaker DISH w/ Wally
Blank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2020, 06:26 PM   #7
Member
 
8022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 30
Thanks for your reply. My final question is paying 2020 prices for a 2019 vehicle and RV. Thank you for the article.
8022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2020, 09:20 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Posts: 36
Well when I bought mine mh it was sold as a 2018 Jayco Greyhawk. When I recieved the title from the secretary of state it said 2017 Ford Econoline. Called the dealership and told them and they called the secretary of state and the nex title said 2017 Jayco Econoline. So I called them again that it was still wrong and said if this is a 2017 somone owes me some money. They told me the person at the Secretary of state is new and does not know what they are doing, they had this problem with a few other titles on motorhomes he promised me they will get it take care of. I got the correct title after a month and a half. What a issue to deal with... My chassis was a 2017 but the Jayco was a 2018 model.
Hamerjk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 06:38 AM   #9
Member
 
8022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 30
Yes, my title shows the year 2020. But the vehicle and RV manufacturer tags on the vehicle all show 2019.
All videos on line show the RV as a 2019. Forest River finished this in August 2019. I guess I should get an attorney.
8022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 07:27 AM   #10
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 2,166
My 2020 Class A was ordered in March 2019 and has a build date of May 2019. What is your build date?

Attach some pictures of those tags but leave the VIN off for privacy.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 08:56 AM   #11
Member
 
8022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 30
Smile

Good Morning Senior,
My build date was Aug of 2019 at the Forest River plant in Elkhardt In. and the 10 digit in the VIN is K.
Thanks
8022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 09:20 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 1,481
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
My 2020 Class A was ordered in March 2019 and has a build date of May 2019. What is your build date?

Attach some pictures of those tags but leave the VIN off for privacy.

Ray
Itís silly that your motorhome build was completed in the first half of 2019, yet its a 2020 model.

Ours has a chassis built in April 2019, the motorhome completed and delivered to us in July, 2019. It is called a 2020 model. Is has the floor plan and interior colors of a 2019, whereas the ďactualĒ 2020 changes took place around August. So if I want certain parts ordered, I have to tell the dealer that even though itís a 2020, it has the interior of a 2019. This is just nonsense.

As far as the title goes, itís a 2019, but I donít care. By the time I sell it, the condition of it will have more impact on the sale price than the model year.
__________________
2020 Sunseeker 2440DS on 2019 Ford E-450, Trekker cap, Topaz paint
BehindBars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 09:28 AM   #13
Member
 
8022's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 30
Angry

It's that beating from the dealer and the industry at large that really gripes my !!!
8022 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 10:59 AM   #14
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by BehindBars View Post
Itís silly that your motorhome build was completed in the first half of 2019, yet its a 2020 model.
The VIN on my car shows it was built in September 2015 but it is a 2016 model year that I bought seven months later. It's all just marketing nonsense. Mine apparently was one of the first 2020 runs. Had we ordered a bit earlier in 2019 we would have gotten the 2019.5 model.

At least some motorhome manufacturers are honest and have a "2019" and a "2019.5" model designation even if it's not reflected that way on the titles.

If you do your research then you know what you're buying. If you walk in and buy based on the floor plan, well, you got what you paid for, right?

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 11:26 AM   #15
Site Team
 
wmtire's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Northeast Louisiana
Posts: 24,981
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8022 View Post
Good Morning Senior,
My build date was Aug of 2019 at the Forest River plant in Elkhardt In. and the 10 digit in the VIN is K.
Thanks

You will have two VIN's, one for just the chassis assigned by the chassis manufacturer (ie Ford, Sprinter, etc).... then another one for the completed coach (assigned by Forest River or one of it subsidiaries)


Most state DMV's will use the completed coach VIN...but some do use the chassis VIN. Sometimes state DMV's use the wrong one.



We keep a sticky at the top of the motorhome section explaining this.


https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...es-126121.html



RVIA Q And A’s on Split Model Years for Motorhomes
One question that gets asked several times is why does a motorhome chassis sometimes have a different model year than the coach.

The following is a copy of a good article by the RVIA which explains it. We are also going to make it a sticky in the motorhome section:

How is the manufacturing of motorhomes different from cars?
Motorhomes are “multi-stage vehicles.” This means that, unlike cars, they generally are built in two separate stages by two different manufacturers.


How is motorhome manufacturing divided into different stages?
The first-stage manufacturer, also called the “incomplete vehicle manufacturer,” assembles the motorhome chassis. This typically includes such components as the chassis frame, engine, fuel system, transmission, drive train, suspension, wheels, brakes and vehicular electrical system. These “incomplete vehicles” are then sold by the chassis manufacturer to final stage motorhome manufacturers, also called “completed vehicle manufacturers.” The motorhome manufacturers take the chassis and build the coach body, all of the “household” systems, install the appliances, cabinets, furnishings, plumbing, lighting fixtures and a multitude of various amenities, resulting in a completed vehicle.


How do first stage manufacturers identify their vehicles?
According to federal law, at 49 CFR 565.13(a), a vehicle manufactured in more than one stage must have a Vehicle Identification Number (“VIN”) assigned to it by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. One character position in the VIN sequence identifies the model year of the incomplete vehicle. Once it is assigned, the VIN stays with the incomplete vehicle when it is sold to the motorhome manufacturer. The incomplete vehicle manufacturer may also ship the chassis with a Manufacturer’s Certificate of Origin (“MCO”). The MCO document provides information about each particular chassis.


How do final stage manufacturers identify their vehicles?
Final stage motorhome manufacturers continue to use the VIN assigned by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. Motorhome manufacturers also provide MCO documents with their motorhomes when they are shipped to dealers. The model year of the completed motorhome, which is determined by the motorhome manufacturer, appears on this MCO document.


Why do some chassis have a different model year than the completed motorhome?
An incomplete vehicle chassis is manufactured before a completed motorhome is built on it. Motorhome manufacturers may buy hundreds, even thousands, of chassis each year. Because of variations in advance purchases of incomplete vehicle chassis, the flow of new product orders, market conditions and new model roll-outs, the model year of the incomplete vehicle chassis is frequently different from the model year of the completed motorhome.


What are some examples of model year differences?
A group of fifty chassis could be built at the end of a calendar year and assigned that year’s model year by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer. A few weeks later, those chassis could be sold to a motorhome manufacturer. The motorhome manufacturer may use half of them to finish production of one motorhome make, assigning those motorhomes the motorhome manufacturer’s current model year on their final MCO’s. These completed motorhomes would have a model year one year greater than the model year of the chassis. The motorhome manufacturer may later use the other half of the chassis in manufacturing a new motorhome design, assigning those motorhomes the next model year. As a result, their final MCO’s would have a model year designation that is two years greater than the chassis model year. In another example, a chassis manufacturer may decide to skip a model year entirely and designate its chassis one year ahead of the then current calendar year. This could result in motorhomes having a model year once year less than the chassis model year.


Who decides what the “official” model year of the vehicle is?
The final stage motorhome manufacturer has authority to designate on the completed vehicle MCO the model year of the completed motorhome. See Federal Trade Commission Staff Opinion (March 5, 2001).

Is it permissible to have different model years for the chassis and completed motorhome?
Yes, it is permissible. The United States Federal Trade Commission (“FTC”) has directly addressed this very issue and determined in a formal staff option that it is NOT an unfair or deceptive trade practice for the completed motorhome and its chassis to have different model years. In recognition of the fact that the final stage manufacturer has the authority to designate the model year for motorhomes, the FTC has stated that the incomplete vehicle chassis manufacturer may use the phrase, “Model Year – Not Applicable” on the MCO’s for the incomplete vehicles it sends to final stage motorhome manufacturers, if it so chooses. See Federal Trade Commission Staff Opinion (March 5, 2001).

Is the motorhome manufacturer required to disclose the difference between the model year of the incomplete vehicle and the model year of the incomplete chassis?
No. However, four states (California, Maryland, Michigan, and Wisconsin) require dealers to inform purchases of multi-stage vehicles of the difference between the model year of the incomplete vehicle chassis and the model year of the final stage motorhome.


What information is used by the state DMV offices to register motorhomes?
When a consumer has a new motorhome registered for the first time, the state DMV will use both the VIN assigned by the incomplete vehicle manufacturer and the model year and make assigned by the final stage motorhome manufacturer for the vehicle registration. All states should title motorhomes using the model year assigned by the final stage motorhome manufacturer.


What should I do if a state DMV registers a new motorhome with the chassis model year?
If a DMV employee insists on using the incomplete chassis model year, please call the Recreation Vehicle Industry Association at 703-620-6003 for assistance. Ask for the Government Affairs Department.


To expedite the process, please bring to the DMV a copy of the:
  1. Motorhome’s MCO (available from the RV dealer or final stage manufacturer);
  2. AAMVA split year motorhome policy position (see below); and
  3. RVIA Q&A guidance document (see below)
2015 AAMVA Policy Positions
RVIA Split Year Q&A
__________________
2011 Flagstaff 831 RLBSS

I often say to myself, "I can't believe that cloning machine worked."
wmtire is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 11:42 AM   #16
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 10,907
I'd be a bit concerned applying a year newer year to a MH when it came time to order parts for the chassis.

I'm guessing MOST MH owners don't really think about this issue. If you tell a mechanic it's a 2020 when it's really a 2019 chassis, is he going to get the right parts???

Seems like a slippery slope.
__________________
1988 Coleman Sequoia - popup (1987-2009) - outlasted 3 Dodge Grand Caravans!
2012 Roo19 - hybrid (2012-2015)

2016 Mini Lite 2503S - tt (2015 - ???)
2011 Traverse LT, 3.6L, FWD
2009 Silverado 1500 Ext Cab, 5.3L, 4x4, 3.73
2016 Silverado 2500HD Dbl Cab, 6.0L 4x4, 4.10
rockfordroo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-30-2020, 11:42 AM   #17
NXR
Senior Member
 
NXR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Family room couch
Posts: 2,166
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmtire View Post
You will have two VIN's, one for just the chassis assigned by the chassis manufacturer (ie Ford, Sprinter, etc).... then another one for the completed coach (assigned by Forest River or one of it subsidiaries)

Most state DMV's will use the completed coach VIN...but some do use the chassis VIN. Sometimes state DMV's use the wrong one.
Ohio used the chassis VIN (2019) on the title itself but everything else on the title used the data from the Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin (2020). On their third attempt.

The insurance company used the chassis VIN originally and that would have affected our payment in the event of a total loss. It cost me an extra $37 to get it insured as a 2020 instead of as a 2019.

Ray
__________________
2020 Georgetown GT5 34H5
NXR is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by

Disclaimer:

This website is not affiliated with or endorsed by Forest River, Inc. or any of its affiliates. This is an independent, unofficial site.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:26 AM.