2013 21SS tongue weight - What the fudge... - Page 3

WolfWhistle · 07-22-2018, 04:53 PM

DD, I wasn't being literal when I mentioned what to leave home to reduce weight and I see the GCVWR now and that you are under. But, you are going to remove what you need to make it work. Not sure what the e2 weights but the Andersen is about 65# ship weight. That's a pricey way to drop a few pounds. I have 12000 miles experience with Andersen and love it. Some say they can't transfer enough weight they don't know the hitch. I had the 1400/14000 model and I could bring the front back where it was with 1400 - 1500# TW... too much, I know. I fixed this by moving batteries and inverter over the axles and going to AGMs. I took 330# off the tongue. And made it "half-ton towable" (smiling!)

WW

DieselDrax · 07-22-2018, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfWhistle

DD, I wasn't being literal when I mentioned what to leave home to reduce weight and I see the GCVWR now and that you are under. But, you are going to remove what you need to make it work. Not sure what the e2 weights but the Andersen is about 65# ship weight. That's a pricey way to drop a few pounds. I have 12000 miles experience with Andersen and love it. Some say they can't transfer enough weight they don't know the hitch. I had the 1400/14000 model and I could bring the front back where it was with 1400 - 1500# TW... too much, I know. I fixed this by moving batteries and inverter over the axles and going to AGMs. I took 330# off the tongue. And made it "half-ton towable" (smiling!)

WW

I hear ya. The Anderson is still quite a bit lighter than the e2 hitch gear. I've actually made my back angry from lifting the e2 hitch head the wrong way, so it would also work to save my back from getting hurt as well.

The e2 isn't exactly easy to adjust either. The L brackets are easy enough to move, but the hitch head with washers and such is a pain. I've also had some annoying problems with the e2 brackets on the trailer during this past trip, even though they are the correct distance the smaller L brackets that clip in to hold the bars on the large L brackets get wedged and cause the bars/brackets to shift with a BANG when making tight turns. Maybe the dealer didn't properly torque them, I tightened them as much as I could while on the road and re-torqued everything when I got home but haven't seen if the issue comes back. It also wasn't a problem on previous trips (500+ miles round trip), it only showed up during our long trip after a few days of driving.

I can sell the e2 to offset some of the Anderson cost. If I can make it work it would be cheaper and easier than going to a different trailer or truck.

rockfordroo · 07-22-2018, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

No, wasn’t going by dry weights. My trailer GVWR is 5,600LB per the sticker on the trailer. Going by 12% GVWR on the hitch and WDH properly adjusted I expected the truck to see less than 450LB actual at the absolute most. I could work with that for a long trip and should be under that by a bit for shorter trips with less gear in the truck and trailer.

Seems the placement of the axles and the layout makes this trailer add a disproportionate amount of weight to the tongue when loading it.

That’s the thing, it tows great. Zero white knuckle driving, even in high crosswinds.

It comes down to safety and being that much over the limits is asking for trouble. It was never about having a poor towing experience, which I have had with other combos.

I’m 1,240LB below GCWR which is 12,700.

12% of 5600 lbs is 672 lbs, NOT 450 lbs. Add 100 lbs for the WDH and you're looking at 772 lbs on the tongue.

The WDH does NOT reduce tongue weight. It just moves it.

DieselDrax · 07-22-2018, 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockfordroo

12% of 5600 lbs is 672 lbs, NOT 450 lbs. Add 100 lbs for the WDH and you're looking at 772 lbs on the tongue.

The WDH does NOT reduce tongue weight. It just moves it.

Yes, I’m fully aware. Should have worded it differently, I was referring to how much actual weight the truck’s axles would see with the WDH on. I know the weight doesn’t disappear.

Seems folks keep overlooking that I’m seeing roughly 18% on the hitch. I don’t care what people think my tongue weight should be. I’m telling you what I’m seeing and it’s nothing like what is expected. At all.

lbrjet · 07-22-2018, 06:23 PM

33 percent of the TW moved to the trailer axle is over optimistic. Most of the scale tickets I have seen it is more like 20 percent.

DieselDrax · 07-22-2018, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbrjet

33 percent of the TW moved to the trailer axle is over optimistic. Most of the scale tickets I have seen it is more like 20 percent.

Even if it were 12% on the tongue and 20% moved back to the trailer I would be happier than what I have now which is looking like well over 1,000 pounds on the tongue.

walaby · 07-22-2018, 09:18 PM

black/grey tanks full when weighed?

carrying any water in fresh water tank?

Mike

DieselDrax · 07-22-2018, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walaby

black/grey tanks full when weighed?

carrying any water in fresh water tank?

Mike

Already covered, all tanks empty. In any case, fresh water tank is in front of the trailer axles near the front of the box, waste tanks are behind the axles.

KMP44 · 07-22-2018, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

Even if it were 12% on the tongue and 20% moved back to the trailer I would be happier than what I have now which is looking like well over 1,000 pounds on the tongue.

Our 23IKSS has the same super slide in front of the axles. It is very tongue heavy - like 850 or so with the WDH on. The brochure weights are not realistic - these trailers are tongue heavy. When they claim "half ton towable' its usually technically true, but the tongue weight consumes nearly all of the payload. Your combination of people/gear in the truck plus the tongue is a tough combo.

Once you have the full set of scale weights, you should have a better picture of what's going on. I towed our Roo for several years with an F-150. My issue was the rear axle was always right at max or a little over depending on how we were loaded, but GVWR was always good. Ended up going to a 3/4 ton when it was time to replace the '05. Its overkill, but it does tow really nice. The 1/2 ton was fine though over several thousand miles.

You might be able to play around with the WDH and the ball height to try to shift weight back to the trailer axles, but if it tows good now, that may be your optimum setup. Let us know what you find when you get a chance to get back to the scale.

babock · 07-22-2018, 10:59 PM

I was concerned about my tongue weight so I bought one of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/Sherline-LM...+tongue+weight

This way, whatever mods or additions to my cargo in my trailer, I can see immediately how it affects my tongue weight. It's not cheap but it is a very useful tool.

Hersbird · 07-23-2018, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babock

I was concerned about my tongue weight so I bought one of these:

https://smile.amazon.com/Sherline-LM...+tongue+weight

This way, whatever mods or additions to my cargo in my trailer, I can see immediately how it affects my tongue weight. It's not cheap but it is a very useful tool.

We need Forest River clubs in every town with one of these to share. Actually dealerships should be required to have one of these to help customers rather than just make customers.

babock · 07-23-2018, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hersbird

We need Forest River clubs in every town with one of these to share. Actually dealerships should be required to have one of these to help customers rather than just make customers.

They are a $145. I have a lot of tools I use less that cost way more.

I have seen them go on eBay used for $100.

Kirk S · 07-23-2018, 07:45 PM

I'll just chime in here. I haven't read all the posts. We had a trailer before we bought our Forester. I was amazed the dealer didn't have a way to check my tongue weight. I wanted to load it up and weigh it. I figured it out by going to the scales but during our travels while looking at campers we never found a dealer with a tongue scale. Was I expecting too much??

Traveler_GAL · 07-26-2018, 07:23 PM

OMG!!! Same issues. I traded in my 2016 Colorado after 12 months because it ran me out of gas pulling a 17ft 4500 lb Hybrid less than 200 miles. Mine wasn’t a diesel but still should of done better. I loved that truck. I’ve 4 wheeled it modified it but lost my ass in the trade. But so did they in the vehicle I purchased. Another story. It couldn’t pull. Tongue was great no issues with the distribution hitch. But leaving me on the side of the fwy was the deal breaker. Now own a Dodge 1500. No issues!!!! Great gas mileage. Went 180 miles and only used less than 3/4 tank. Whoot!!!!!

BTW. Join Escapees they have classes and ways to weigh your set up.

mgg · 07-26-2018, 07:42 PM

Weigh the truck. Weigh the combo. Get a hitch scale. Call your trailer manufacturer a Liar, then go buy something different. They don't specify hitch weights, only what you should/might experience. I found myself in the same situation. I now RV in a class C.

DieselDrax · 07-26-2018, 08:05 PM

I just got the Anderson hitch mounted up and preliminarily set. At this point I’m thinking the e2 wasn’t a good match for this combo and was allowing excessive weight on the rear and not transferring much to the trailer. I got the Anderson on and the rear of the truck barely dropped before the jack was off the ground. Front of the truck is spot on at the same height as when unloaded. After dinner I’m going to do some more fine tuning and take it for a drive to see how it feels.

babock · 07-26-2018, 08:14 PM

Not sure how this is going to help your excess GVW.

DieselDrax · 07-26-2018, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by babock

Not sure how this is going to help your excess GVW.

Just posting up initial impressions. Won’t know what, if anything, has changed until I get it weighed again.

wabakami · 07-26-2018, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselDrax

That must have been a typo as wife, kids, dog, topper come out to about 600LB, not 500LB. Whoops. The extra weight above in the 980 I also mentioned in that post, there was about 150LB of tools, fluids, and chairs in the bed of the truck as well.

Sure, it varies, but what I've seen indicates that a properly setup WDH should move 33% back to the trailer axles.

And I also agree the amount of tongue weight should be less, but this particular trailer is putting around 920LB on the truck with the WDH bars on. See why I'm

? Even you think the hitch weight should be a lot less than it is. That's what is hitting me in the face.

Already checked the tires, they aren't the limiting factor. The frame is fully boxed and is quite substantial so I don't think that is the limiting factor. The rear axle is apparently built by Dana for GM and is considered to be a "Dana 46" but that doesn't match what Dana says a 46 is. In all honestly, taking a SWAG, I suspect the limitation is the rear shocks/springs and the limit is to try and prevent bottoming out on the bump stops when going over rough road/bumps which could lead to axle or frame damage if hit hard enough (something I've seen happen with someone else's truck some years ago).

It's tough being in the position of knowing you're overweight but also being extremely happy with how it tows. Ignorance truly is bliss sometimes.

Upgrade your shocks, add Firestone Air Bags, and for peace of mind go with LT tyres and you'll do fine; as you said it tows great and you're comfortable with the handling.

babock · 07-26-2018, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wabakami

Upgrade your shocks, add Firestone Air Bags, and for peace of mind go with LT tyres and you'll do fine; as you said it tows great and you're comfortable with the handling.

Of course that does nothing to increase your load carrying capacity.

If the axle is overloaded, it's overloaded. There is nothing you can do about it.

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