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Old 02-04-2015, 10:05 PM   #1
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Cut to the chase...

Roo would be stored inside. It would be really rare to tow in the rain. I am willing to do the PVC mod. What percentage chance would I have to not have closed bed leaks and potential delamination?

I am mentally exhausted from research. All I want is to sleep under canvas yet have a great bathroom/living area. It blows my mind that the brilliant engineers of the world can't come up with a good, reliable hybrid bunk system. How do they still sell these when they have the worst track record in the industry? It feels like a step backwards that they removed the gutter and went to this silly latch system.

I suppose the concept on paper is so perfect, which is exactly why I am clinging to hope there is a magical formula for success on hybrids.

Has anyone that has done the PVC mod still had leaks in normal use?


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Old 02-04-2015, 10:30 PM   #2
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Wish there was a magical answer for you.
Our Roo is stored under shelter and w/ a cover on. We have traveled in some rain. I worry the same thing. Our camper isn't a year yet and so far we have been good.
I did make the pvc gutters but haven't used them yet.
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Old 02-05-2015, 05:38 AM   #3
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I used garden hose instead. Works great. Very flexible and easy to install. I even tow with it in place. No problems. It is great for peace of mind if nothing else. Never had a leak since I started using this method.
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Old 02-05-2015, 07:27 AM   #4
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We have a 2014 23IKSS that is stored outside. After joining the forum last month I have been reading a lot about leaks and delamination. Leaks are definitely bad and lead to delamination. Being a bit obsessive I almost went crazy until I could inspect our unit for damage. I did not find any damage. My thoughts on water and my Shamrock hybrid:
· The manufacturer and Dealer stored my unit outside and it didn't have water damage when I bought it. It is a year old and still does not have any apparent water damage.
· Manufacturers learn and improve designs and processes. I will watch for valuable information on updates and will follow manufacturer guidance on maintenance.
· As noted in other posts, I have a rain gutter over the slides but not the bed ends. I will look into adding a gutter to direct water away from the seals on the bed ends.
· I WILL pay attention to the seals and maintain them as directed by the manufacturer.
· Some owners close the bed ends with the mattress in the ends. I never have as I felt it was hard to close. Hard to close to me means too much stress on the seals.
· I did not previously consider a cover. I will now get a cover to keep some of the water off while stored.
I am sorry for the length of the post. We already own the unit so we are committed and plan to have the unit for a long time. We love the layout and sleeping under canvas. Good luck with your selection.
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Old 02-05-2015, 08:18 AM   #5
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Don't be sorry at all! That is great feedback. I know many recent buyers went through the same questions and I was curious how you reconciled or worked through the situation.

I am so ready to sign but I have to get over a few nagging concerns. If the hose/PVC trick works that helps. I am still frustrated by what feels 2 steps backwards on new models.

I just can't recall a purchase where I was so intrigued despite obvious red flags. Thanks for letting me vent out loud.


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Old 02-05-2015, 10:31 AM   #6
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Your chances are slim to none. I tow/camp in the rain, and store outside. I am not worried in the slightest about water entry.

The more I look at it, the more I think that the water entry past the seal is because of improper closure more than anything. If you get even a small piece of canvas, or a twig in the seal, it A) will not seal, and B) temporarily deform the seal for a while so it cant seal till it resumes its normal shape.

I use a damp rag and I wipe my seals, and the sealing area down just before I swing the door shut. I am almost fanatical about going back and forth many times as I close to make sure there is no canvas in the seal. I have see other hybrid guys just close the bunk doors and throw the latches in one motion, without checking for any trapped material. And when (not 'if') they get a leak, their "solution" is add shims for a 'tighter' seal. That further distorts the seal and eventually makes things worse. We are not holding in 10 atmospheres of pressure here, a lip seal is more than adequate.

The seals work. They are a pretty good design for low-pressure (Under 50psi) high volume applications.

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Old 02-05-2015, 10:55 AM   #7
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Your chances are slim to none. I tow/camp in the rain, and store outside. I am not worried in the slightest about water entry.

The more I look at it, the more I think that the water entry past the seal is because of improper closure more than anything. If you get even a small piece of canvas, or a twig in the seal, it A) will not seal, and B) temporarily deform the seal for a while so it cant seal till it resumes its normal shape.

I use a damp rag and I wipe my seals, and the sealing area down just before I swing the door shut. I am almost fanatical about going back and forth many times as I close to make sure there is no canvas in the seal. I have see other hybrid guys just close the bunk doors and throw the latches in one motion, without checking for any trapped material. And when (not 'if') they get a leak, their "solution" is add shims for a 'tighter' seal. That further distorts the seal and eventually makes things worse. We are not holding in 10 atmospheres of pressure here, a lip seal is more than adequate.

The seals work. They are a pretty good design for low-pressure (Under 50psi) high volume applications.

Tim
Tim,

I will have to disagree with you. Plenty of us have water leak issues and do a great job of closing the bunks. I close up the camper, turn on both exhaust fans and this sucks in the tent ends. I then carefully close the bunks, checking for any tent material in the seal area. I can guarantee you there is no tent material in the seal area. I still get leaks from time to time. That is why I use the garden hose on the top seals. Since I have started doing this...zero leaks.

I don't know if you have the old design or new design lock arms. I have the new ones and they leave allot to be desired. They are all plastic with little to no adjustment possible. All the clamping pressure is at the ends and very little in the middle which is where I get leaks.

Light rain..no leaks. Heavy rain or melting snow....leaks.

Les.
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Old 02-05-2015, 12:17 PM   #8
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I have had a hybrid for 11 years. 2 different campers. Never a leak. I don't understand how a vent fan can suck in the heavy bunk fabric. Could someone post a photo of this garden hose idea? Just can't picture it! Thanks
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:02 PM   #9
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We replaced both our bed ends due to delamination. our trailer was stored outside but very well cared for. Never noticed any leaks when camping. I think the problem may have started when camping in very wet weather. Don't know for sure. We were at a dealer looking at trailers - not Forest River & many brand new trailers sitting on the lot were delaminating. Not just the hybrids.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:15 PM   #10
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@ Sponge

Are you talking about the pvc pipe mod where you slide the pvc along the top edge to cover the bunk seal area?

If so, since I did this mod, we have had no leaks at all during storage or travel.
Saying that, we only had two times where we had a small amount of water laying on top of the canvas after opening up the bunk ends when the rains stopped. Both of those times they were real downpours and the trailer was sitting in the driveway.
I decided to add the pvc mod as a precaution. I'm also planning on having all the bunk seals replaced at the rally this summer as we also have a small gap at the upper corners between the vertical and horizontal seals.
The pvc pipe mod is cheap insurance in my opinion and it's worked so far.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:15 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by syogerst View Post
I have had a hybrid for 11 years. 2 different campers. Never a leak. I don't understand how a vent fan can suck in the heavy bunk fabric. Could someone post a photo of this garden hose idea? Just can't picture it! Thanks
The vent fan thing only works with the newer pre-attached canvas ends.
doesn't work with the older bungee/snap canvas.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:21 PM   #12
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The garden hose fix is simply splitting the length of hose the entire length and sliding it along the upper bunk edge, covering up the opening where the seal sits between the bunk edge and bunk frame.

Looks like this but it's a garden hose, this is the pvc mod.
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:24 PM   #13
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Few years ago we were shopping used hybrids. The more we looked the more with water damage , leaks or wet inside we found. (Some were delaminating )
Too bad , liked the idea of a hybrid but it looked like a huge problem at the time.
Scared me off...........
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:37 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Jimandchris View Post
The garden hose fix is simply splitting the length of hose the entire length and sliding it along the upper bunk edge, covering up the opening where the seal sits between the bunk edge and bunk frame.

Looks like this but it's a garden hose, this is the pvc mod.
Wow I have been wondering what the PVC mod is. Really that simple huh? And it working for the majority of owners?
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:41 PM   #15
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It's a shame because they are so cool. We love ours. Really wonder how many don't leak and we don't hear of those....
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Old 02-05-2015, 01:44 PM   #16
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Yes, I was talking about the PVC top rail precaution. I have no issue doing that if it helps on any side I don't open.


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Old 02-05-2015, 02:26 PM   #17
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We've had our Roo 23SS since Nov. 2006 and have never had any leak issues other than a couple of times driving in very heavy rain.
even then, it was just a minor amount of water that was easily wiped up with a rag.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:38 PM   #18
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We've only had ours for 7 months and in CA it's only rained twice where we live but no leaks so far. It'll rain this weekend and I'm considering opening my bunks to see how the unit will perform. For now, I haven't needed to do the pvc mod, hopefully I won't have to.
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Old 02-05-2015, 02:55 PM   #19
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Wow I have been wondering what the PVC mod is. Really that simple huh? And it working for the majority of owners?
I'm really unsure of how many are using it. It's what worked for us...

I have a drawing of it in our album if anyone is interested. I imagine the length is different for the side bunk of the 233SS model.

http://www.forestriverforums.com/for...cture12490.jpg
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Old 02-05-2015, 03:15 PM   #20
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Thanks for posting the pvc picture. I'm sure it will help many people.
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