It's a hybrid thing...you wouldn't understand

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by The_Rhino

I’m with the 99%, hybrids are not for us... We also enjoy camping in state parks next to natural attractions, etc… Although it would be great to drop the bunk-ends & enjoy the sights & sounds of nature (plus keep a better eye on the kids), you also get the (unwanted) sights & sounds of your camping neighbors, stormy weather, loud animals, etc… And campgrounds are only getting more crowded w/campsites closer together...

But our original plan was to buy a (new) $20K hybrid and pair it with a (used) $25K full-size SUV so I spent about a YEAR looking at hybrids… Unfortunately, (fortunately?), I couldn’t find a $25K SUV without Ohio rust and/or high miles. Instead I found a 2 year-old Ram 2500 CC w/no rust, 3000 payload, & balance of warranty for just $14K…

Meanwhile I noticed a large number of gently-used hybrids lining every dealer’s lot while friends/colleagues seemed over-anxious to sell their hybrids to us… After inspecting used units at dealer lots I realized that 99% trade-up because they don’t keep-out the weather or noise very well…

So for the same $20K we bought a gently used 2-slide bunkhouse that is our roomy retreat when the weather turns or when the neighbors talk around their campfires deep into the night... We prepare most of our food outside using our outdoor kitchen & eat under our expansive awning. We also bring a portable awning to place near the fire so we can still enjoy the outdoors in light rains. But when it starts raining horizontal, we retreat indoors where we can still get a good night’s sleep… We live in the country so we like it quiet at night...

In Ohio we've had 4 nights of heavy storms which first chased-away the tent folks, then the popup folks, and then the hybrid folks... During the days we had the CG pool & hiking trails to ourselves so keep buying those hybrids!

That must be something that happens in Ohio. Here in PA at least, used hybrids in decent condition are lucky to sit on a dealer lot for a few days. Its very hard to find one. We are moving towards our 3rd in 6 years and we surely dont, nor do any of the many others I see in our campgrounds, pack up and run when it storms. We like nothing more than rain on canvas at night after the fire burns out. Around here its usually the tin can folks running from the rain. Then I get their firewood.

[jking46]

Starting 3rd season with our early 2015 ikss. No bunk end leaks.
Tips to prevent leaks.
1 Season tenting
2 Clean and treat seals...also around slides
3 Be sure no tenting is caught in seals when closing bunk
4 Don't camp or store in rain

[Mainframe]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

That must be something that happens in Ohio. Here in PA at least, used hybrids in decent condition are lucky to sit on a dealer lot for a few days. Its very hard to find one. We are moving towards our 3rd in 6 years and we surely dont, nor do any of the many others I see in our campgrounds, pack up and run when it storms. We like nothing more than rain on canvas at night after the fire burns out. Around here its usually the tin can folks running from the rain. And I then I get their firewood.

I agree 100%! I sold my 2011 Hybrid in the middle of Feb for good money too! It listed for less than a month and only on Craig's list. We never ran from storms years ago in our pop up and surely wouldn't in our hybrid, besides many hybrids are pretty roomy with the ends folded up I know our new one is, so it really turns into a hard side trailer very quickly if desired.

[jking46]

You won't find many quality used ones in Indiana either. You can find a few 5 year old POS with water damage but good late model used ones are rare. We tend to keep them to camp in the rain.

[rockfordroo]

Had my Roo 19 for 3 years. No leaks. Traded it in beginning of June; dealer sold it about 4 weeks later (Midwest).

[kennyairport]

We started in a pup and loved it. Then we thought of doing 2-3 months at a time traveling the USA and went to a 35ft. diesel pusher, never liked it too big for the wooded CG we like and it just sat. Sold it and did not camp for 5-6 years but missed the camping. So another pup was bought and loved however it was getting harder for us to set up and down. Hybrid was the perfect solution and we plan on retiring and mostly travelling again enjoying this beautiful country.

[howie70]

Originally Posted by Hemlock04

After reading through this thread I have to ask. Do most of you have leaky bunk ends?

Originally Posted by itat

The tents on hybrids and popups are the same, yes, but how they are sealed when closed is not the same.

Popups have a roof that lowers and completely covers the interior. If the roof doesn't leak and the seals around the edge of the roof that contact the main body are in tact they won't leak.

If a hybrid leaks, it's typically going to leak water past the door seals when the bed doors are closed. You have 2 or 3 large holes in the walls that must have good seals. Prior to the current design with permanently attached tents, if water could get past the door seal it would get into the trailer.

I think the vast majority of hybrids do not leak, but when they do it can be very difficult to fix permanently.

I agree with what itat said. As I mentioned earlier, I purchased one brand new in 2014. (This was after looking at several used units and finding water damage in them.) It leaked from the start. It had nothing to do with seasoning the tent ends, it leaked when closed. I owned it for a little over a year. It was at the dealer for 7 months of that time and they never could fix it.

[Mr Havercamp]

I have owned two hybrids that had LCI securelock door/tent assemblies which are used on every other brand of hybrid except Rockwood, Flagstaff, and Palomino, and I have worked on both Rockwood and Palomino HTT's. If the doors leak when closed it is only one of, or a combination of 4 things.
1, A bad overall installation from the factory including bad sealants.
2, A bad seal installation from the factory.
3, User abuse such as bending the middle of the door itself from overloading so it no longer seals.
4, Operator error such as closing with canvas in the seal.

Any dealer tech that can not solve a leak issue is either not trying to solve it or a moron. Its not the space shuttle. When you get right down to it there is no difference between a Hybrid bunk door and an outside kitchen door or a storage compartment door. They're all just an opening with a rubber seal.

[mjbenedict]

I think most of the people who get tired of hybrids are the ones setting them up and taking them down in the rain. Lots to do when you get home since you have to open them up again to dry out. I loved the tent ends but got tired of crawling over the wife when nature called. I only had one seam leak that I coated with seam seal but always checked when raining. I will not miss that uneasy "is it leaking" feeling. Had pop-up gizmos for the ends but another thing to install, fix when too windy, take down, and dry when getting home was getting tedious. Almost all hybrid owners feel the same when they first jump into the hybrid world. They are great. As you get older it sort of wears on the setup/takedown person. I have a wife that helps 100% too. I'm looking forward to camping in my new double-slide 30' TT this year. Will miss the old Roo23SS, lots of fun in that one. Someone else snatched it up quickly after I traded it. Also got more than book value on trade so I don't think Hybrids are losing people's interest.

[jmencel]

We have a '08 Palomino Stampede hybrid and love it. Last summer we camped in Ontario, Quebec, Maine, New Hampshire, Mass and Vermont. In the fall we headed down to Florida. I never thought my wife would like trailer life but sleeping off the ground in cozy comfort while still under canvas seems to be just about perfect. Easy to get around and lightweight to tow, with a proper bathroom and shower .. Perfect !!!

[karrun]

The only thing that will make me (eventually) get rid of my HTT is making the damn bed. I'm already getting tired of crawling around wrestling with the sheets.

[itat]

Originally Posted by Mr Havercamp

I have owned two hybrids that had LCI securelock door/tent assemblies which are used on every other brand of hybrid except Rockwood, Flagstaff, and Palomino, and I have worked on both Rockwood and Palomino HTT's. If the doors leak when closed it is only one of, or a combination of 4 things.
1, A bad overall installation from the factory including bad sealants.
2, A bad seal installation from the factory.
3, User abuse such as bending the middle of the door itself from overloading so it no longer seals.
4, Operator error such as closing with canvas in the seal.

Any dealer tech that can not solve a leak issue is either not trying to solve it or a moron. Its not the space shuttle. When you get right down to it there is no difference between a Hybrid bunk door and an outside kitchen door or a storage compartment door. They're all just an opening with a rubber seal.

There aren't any NASA employees at the manufacturing plant for these hydrids.

I'm still convinced that my ongoing leak problems were from improperly installed screws that hold the bed door frames in the wall openings. On both the front and rear doors, the person putting the screws into the frame didn't install the screws at a right angle and the screw heads didn't sit flush with the adjacent surface preventing a good seal. I had the bunk doors replaced because of delamination and I replaced the white pinch welt seal on the door edges twice. It was better when I sold it, but I was tired of worrying about it so I moved to a regular TT.

[wicked1]

I camped in tents for years, then as I grew up and had more money I bought my first RV a used 33ft Shasta. It served me well but the layout and length was just a pain with some CG's have tights spots due to trees.

My buddy bought a Roo 21SS loved the idea of towing smaller but useful space until I saw the 23ikss. I bought my first new camper and only one I will ever own new in April 2015, although I love the layout and space my Shasta had the shower doors and would love to have that in this one but I do love the usefulness of the Roo.

Ppl always ask me isn't it annoying hearing all the noises and quite frankly it is not, the mattresses are comfortable and it has so many uses even if I don't want the ends out I have a Full Sofa Bed that is comfy for quick trips but honestly this thing is all I need as much as I would love a 5er not worth having to buy a diesel when I just bought my new F150 SCREW SB EB works perfectly and this thing is easy to tow.

I guess unless you own one some folks just won't get it. A friend has a 35' Bunkhouse and they always complain about getting around some CG's, at less than 25' I don't have those issues, and my tanks fit our uses for the GF and I just fine.

[RooVader]

Thanks for the fun feedback everyone...what a great response. It just struck me when I went to argue the merits of ownership and stopped myself short. I realized it simply doesn't make sense for most people. If you "get it", the things everyone else cites as a disadvantage we view as an advantage. I definitely see less of them for sale around here so I am guessing our ranks are shrinking. That had me feeling even more like part of a special club.

You definitely need to understand the unique aspects of ownership and I am sure hybrids are traded in quickly by an awful lot of people that don't enjoy those aspects. For me it just makes the camping experience that much greater knowing I have so many options at my disposal. No bunks open, two bunks open, one bunk open, sleep in same bed....sleep in different beds....darker with pugs, brighter than any other camper without them. My favorite thing is being able to lounge in an airy, canvas tent end where the entire outside is inside and that familiar scent of camping only to stand up 2 seconds later and enjoy all of the conveniences of home in the same room.

[CNYCamper]

Maybe we can get 1%er patches. Identify each other while blending in at outlaw biker bars.

[RooVader]

Well now that you mentioned it I really want that!

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by CNYCamper

Maybe we can get 1%er patches. Identify each other while blending in at outlaw biker bars.

The last time I stumbled upon the what type RV are you in poll thread hybrids were at 13% overall.

[wicked1]

I do think they are becoming less and less common, I don't see any Palamino Solaire's in NJ, PA or NY, I hardly see Roo's and almost never see Surveyor's or Coachmens.

Palamino even dropped the 197x which sort of competes with the Roo 23ikss.

I think they get a bad rep bc everyone tells me oh you have one of those, the tent ends will eventually leak and then what are you going to do?

[RooVader]

I don't think the local jayco dealer carries them anymore. I had a friend shopping for one and the sales people were strongly discouraging the hybrid route. They probably aren't wrong to do so for most people I suppose but it was another sign they are shrinking in market share.

If this forum is any indication the 1 percenters may be small in number but we seem to be as active and passionate as an ownership group could possibly be. Hopefully FR continues to invest in the hybrids...seems like they are getting close to having the market to themselves.

[Mr Havercamp]

Originally Posted by wicked1

I do think they are becoming less and less common

I do not agree with that.

Hybrids were being pushed to a certain market, younger with children. Then around 2010/11 they, they being the entire industry both manufacturers and dealers, figured something out. We can push the stick and tin bunkhouse to that same market and increase the profit margin.

A top of the line 23' ish Hybrid sells for the same as, and sometimes substantially more than, a stick and tin 26'-30' bunkhouse. It costs a lot more to build a hybrid. There is more profit per unit in a stick and tin trailer. The bunk doors and tents adds a substantial extra cost in materials and extra labor on the line.

I have been told that same scenario now by 3 different dealers "off the record". On the record the story is "sales slowed down". Not even close as if you have less people selling them logic will tell you sales will slow down. I have been camping in a Hybrid since 2010 and I see more now than I did then. It may be a regional thing but Rockwood / Flagstaff has been pumping out a lot of Hybrids. Keystone quit on the Passport line of hybrids after the 2014 model year but are back with 3 models for 2016. If there was no market or the market was slowing do you think they would have brought them back after what amounted to a 2 year hiatus?